Thank you! You're right, at the moment the cube is just some union of collections of cards, I need to find some more glue between the archetypes. Varolz and the scavenge cards are good ideas, I forgot about that mechanic but feels good with the dredge archetype. I think we can find some counter synergies between the scavenge cards and the modular cards
Alvoi's Cube
- Thread starter alvoi
- Start date
Posting here because it's my topic but could interest someone else. I had an idea for a cube with only creatures (and fixing lands obviously), the idea came to me by looking at the list of combos that someone posted and I noticed that there were a lot of fun interactions between creatures like reveillark, karmic guide, mulldrifter, saffi eriksdotter etc but usually when I play with my main cube the creatures are just secondary and the games are won by the powerful spells. So I thought what if I made a cube with only creatures? Obviously we need 187 creatures and evoke and stuff like that but I think this could be a fun interesting idea. Do you have any suggestions? I'm really bad at creating cubes so I kinda need a lot of help
Well, MaRo always says, regarding the set Legions, which was all creatures, that designing for a gimmick is not a good reason for design. However, I think there is the potential, with how many creature cards we have in existence today, to make that work and have a fun cube. And you could certainly hook some people with that headline. But what are you going to do when they print the perfect red card draw that you wanted for your format, but it's a sorcery. Are you going to stick with the suboptimal choice?
TL;DR: I get the appeal and it could work, but is the restriction really worth it?
TL;DR: I get the appeal and it could work, but is the restriction really worth it?
Hello everyone, little update by me! Regarding the "Modern Masters" style Cube, I ended up putting a peasant rarity restriction a while ago, and it feels way closer to what I originally planned for it. Obviously I know that rarity is just a colour and I should mainly keep an eye on the power level instead, but having some constraint helps me as a guideline for keeping the Cube updated. I just added five cards from Outlaws, so here is the list: https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/alvoi-mma if you want to try it out and give me some advice, I would be grateful! Sadly I moved, hence I don't live anymore close to where my group of Magic friends was, but I hope to be back in the summer to try out the new cards of this Cube!
The archetypes are the same as in Modern Masters the original set, so azorius affinity, dimir faeries, rakdos goblins, gruul storm-suspend, selesnya tokens-thallids, orzhov rebels, izzet arcanes, golgari dredge, boros giants and simic domain. I have a couple of "silver-bordered" cards: Imaginary Friends, Buried Ogre, Lazier Goblin, Krosan Adaptation, the incredible Barry's Land, and a copy of How to Keep an Izzet Mage Busy where I added the "Arcane" subtype with a sharpie.
Sometimes I am not great at seeing if there are evident power level outliers in the Cube (meaning cards that are too strong or too weak), so I hope to get a couple of suggestions about that. Also, I made the cuts for the Outlaws cards very quickly, and maybe there are better changes to do. If you know some cards that fit the themes good, tell me, we cannot know all cards in the history of Magic, so probably there is a card that is perfect for this Cube and I don't even know it exists!
The archetypes are the same as in Modern Masters the original set, so azorius affinity, dimir faeries, rakdos goblins, gruul storm-suspend, selesnya tokens-thallids, orzhov rebels, izzet arcanes, golgari dredge, boros giants and simic domain. I have a couple of "silver-bordered" cards: Imaginary Friends, Buried Ogre, Lazier Goblin, Krosan Adaptation, the incredible Barry's Land, and a copy of How to Keep an Izzet Mage Busy where I added the "Arcane" subtype with a sharpie.
Sometimes I am not great at seeing if there are evident power level outliers in the Cube (meaning cards that are too strong or too weak), so I hope to get a couple of suggestions about that. Also, I made the cuts for the Outlaws cards very quickly, and maybe there are better changes to do. If you know some cards that fit the themes good, tell me, we cannot know all cards in the history of Magic, so probably there is a card that is perfect for this Cube and I don't even know it exists!
I did a draft of your cube
https://cubecobra.com/cube/deck/73d75cf0-260d-4fd5-8717-c34ae384990c
It was fun! A few things I noticed here: There was very very little fixing. I would highly recommend to add at least a couple cycles of simple tapped lands to reduce non-games. Also, I'm not sure the arcane stuff is working, many cards felt Werk even at that power level. And like other said, I would be careful to not copy MMAs biggest flaw: Being a drafting on rails format. But I gotta admit you've found some nice overlaps for your themes here and there.
https://cubecobra.com/cube/deck/73d75cf0-260d-4fd5-8717-c34ae384990c
It was fun! A few things I noticed here: There was very very little fixing. I would highly recommend to add at least a couple cycles of simple tapped lands to reduce non-games. Also, I'm not sure the arcane stuff is working, many cards felt Werk even at that power level. And like other said, I would be careful to not copy MMAs biggest flaw: Being a drafting on rails format. But I gotta admit you've found some nice overlaps for your themes here and there.
Thank you Ravnic! Yeah I think you found most of my current concerns with the cube ahah
Regarding fixing: I think it is partially desired, because I do not want people to play 4-5 colour nonsense with all strong cards and without synergy. That's why I followed the original MMA design and put only basic landcyclers as fixing: we have three full cycles (Gleam of Resistance, Eagles of the North and Landscaper Colos) plus a couple of "five colour" fixing lands, and the Vivids. I think this should be enough for two-coloured and maybe also three-coloured decks, but I am open to advice!
The arcane stuff... I don't know. I usually alternate between "the arcane deck is unplayable" and "the arcane deck is the most powerful thing I have played in my life". The problem is... I don't know which one it is! Since I have not yet played irl with the Cube, all of my testing has been just in the draft portion and not in the gameplay. Sometimes I think that How to Keep an Izzet Mage Busy is busted because it basically is a permanent that can't be interacted with, and permits perpetual milling, damage prevention, and remouval... some other times maybe the deck falls apart by itself. I hope next summer I will have time and friends to draft this Cube and see how the arcane deck works!
Yes, the drafting on rails is also one of my biggest concerns. That's why I am very happy for the printing of cards like Tribune of Rot, that I feel like is perfect for my Cube: it slots very well both in the BG Dredge archetype and in the GW Thallids archetype, but I would consider it also in a BR Goblins since the self mill and the tokens are very nice for cards like Warren Pilferers and Dark-Dweller Oracle, and it doesn't feel out of place even in any other black or green archetype.
One thing I was considering to prevent the draft to be too much on rails is to branch archetypes out of their original two-colour combination. For example, in MMA the Giants archetype is just Boros, but recently there have been many nice Izzet Giants (like Aegar, the Freezing Flame and Invasion of the Giants) so I could consider making the Giant archetype for example centered in Red, with the possibility of doing either RW or UR or even Jeskai Giants. A similar thing I already did for the Arcanes archetype, that branched into white for Candles' Glow and Ethereal Haze (so, Arcanes is either UR or WU or Jeskai, or even UB if we lean heavily into the mill plan, with cards like Stream of Thought and Mind Funeral). I could add black Saproling-makers, or red artifact-matters cards, or blue Storm payoff, etc etc. But then there is the risk that everything becomes a soup of colours, and I wouldn't like that too much...
Regarding fixing: I think it is partially desired, because I do not want people to play 4-5 colour nonsense with all strong cards and without synergy. That's why I followed the original MMA design and put only basic landcyclers as fixing: we have three full cycles (Gleam of Resistance, Eagles of the North and Landscaper Colos) plus a couple of "five colour" fixing lands, and the Vivids. I think this should be enough for two-coloured and maybe also three-coloured decks, but I am open to advice!
The arcane stuff... I don't know. I usually alternate between "the arcane deck is unplayable" and "the arcane deck is the most powerful thing I have played in my life". The problem is... I don't know which one it is! Since I have not yet played irl with the Cube, all of my testing has been just in the draft portion and not in the gameplay. Sometimes I think that How to Keep an Izzet Mage Busy is busted because it basically is a permanent that can't be interacted with, and permits perpetual milling, damage prevention, and remouval... some other times maybe the deck falls apart by itself. I hope next summer I will have time and friends to draft this Cube and see how the arcane deck works!
Yes, the drafting on rails is also one of my biggest concerns. That's why I am very happy for the printing of cards like Tribune of Rot, that I feel like is perfect for my Cube: it slots very well both in the BG Dredge archetype and in the GW Thallids archetype, but I would consider it also in a BR Goblins since the self mill and the tokens are very nice for cards like Warren Pilferers and Dark-Dweller Oracle, and it doesn't feel out of place even in any other black or green archetype.
One thing I was considering to prevent the draft to be too much on rails is to branch archetypes out of their original two-colour combination. For example, in MMA the Giants archetype is just Boros, but recently there have been many nice Izzet Giants (like Aegar, the Freezing Flame and Invasion of the Giants) so I could consider making the Giant archetype for example centered in Red, with the possibility of doing either RW or UR or even Jeskai Giants. A similar thing I already did for the Arcanes archetype, that branched into white for Candles' Glow and Ethereal Haze (so, Arcanes is either UR or WU or Jeskai, or even UB if we lean heavily into the mill plan, with cards like Stream of Thought and Mind Funeral). I could add black Saproling-makers, or red artifact-matters cards, or blue Storm payoff, etc etc. But then there is the risk that everything becomes a soup of colours, and I wouldn't like that too much...
So, little update, since MH3 is approaching and will probably bring a lot of cards for the Cube (at least, I hope, for now I am playing 17 cards from MH1 and 25 from MH2, the two most represented sets after –obviously– Modern Masters itself).
I decided that I want the archetypes to branch into more colours, because it would solve two of the problems: (1) the seemingly "drafting on rails" and (2) the fact that there are too many nice cards I want to add but are in the wrong colours.
For now, I think that I will do changes just to the archetypes in the Jeskai wedge, since they are the easiest. Indeed, Affinity/Modular was the WU archetype in MMA, but there are many red and red-white cards for the archetype, like Arcbound Shikari, Atog and the new Frogmyr Enforcer (yeah, I know that could be played also in a non-red deck, but I think it is at its most power in a deck that can play both sides, so I will count it as a red card I think). Similarly, the Arcanes deck was the UR archetype in MMA, but cards like Ethereal Haze and Candles' Glow (both of which are already in the Cube) look perfect for the strategy. To end, as I wrote last time, in Kaldheim there were many nice blue Giants, that could power up one of the worst archetypes in the Cube so far.
Hence, the plan is this:
• Affinity archetype, from WU to WUR (with a center in W)
• Arcanes archetype, from UR to WUR (with a center in U)
• Giants archetype, from RW to WUR (with a center in R)
This way I keep colour balance, while adding more possible decks. Indeed, if before one could just play Azorius Affinity, Izzet Arcanes or Boros Giants, now they can also play: Boros Affinity, Azorius Arcanes, Izzet Giants, or any Jeskai deck with one (or more!) of the strategies.
It would be nice to have also some mechanical cohesion between the strategies, but it is something that looks very hard since one is a tribal-creatures theme, one is an instant-sorcery theme, and the other is an artifact theme. But not everything is lost.
I haven't made any changes to the Cube yet, but I will soon (and I will post the progress, if you are interested).
I decided that I want the archetypes to branch into more colours, because it would solve two of the problems: (1) the seemingly "drafting on rails" and (2) the fact that there are too many nice cards I want to add but are in the wrong colours.
For now, I think that I will do changes just to the archetypes in the Jeskai wedge, since they are the easiest. Indeed, Affinity/Modular was the WU archetype in MMA, but there are many red and red-white cards for the archetype, like Arcbound Shikari, Atog and the new Frogmyr Enforcer (yeah, I know that could be played also in a non-red deck, but I think it is at its most power in a deck that can play both sides, so I will count it as a red card I think). Similarly, the Arcanes deck was the UR archetype in MMA, but cards like Ethereal Haze and Candles' Glow (both of which are already in the Cube) look perfect for the strategy. To end, as I wrote last time, in Kaldheim there were many nice blue Giants, that could power up one of the worst archetypes in the Cube so far.
Hence, the plan is this:
• Affinity archetype, from WU to WUR (with a center in W)
• Arcanes archetype, from UR to WUR (with a center in U)
• Giants archetype, from RW to WUR (with a center in R)
This way I keep colour balance, while adding more possible decks. Indeed, if before one could just play Azorius Affinity, Izzet Arcanes or Boros Giants, now they can also play: Boros Affinity, Azorius Arcanes, Izzet Giants, or any Jeskai deck with one (or more!) of the strategies.
It would be nice to have also some mechanical cohesion between the strategies, but it is something that looks very hard since one is a tribal-creatures theme, one is an instant-sorcery theme, and the other is an artifact theme. But not everything is lost.
I haven't made any changes to the Cube yet, but I will soon (and I will post the progress, if you are interested).
I would definitely branch out themes into other colors. I used to have the typical pair archetypes in my cube as well, and it just brought so many problems, it is really beyond me why wizards uses it for every set. Maybe because it is easy to draft, I dunno. But you end up with a lot of nongold gold cards. For example, in your list, Latchkey faerie is effectively a dimir gold card. Yeah, occasionally a deck without black will have enough faeries for it - and there are probably cards even harder to enable - but still it will make drafters go blue-black 98% of the time. Thereare two ways to avoid those traps: Either you can branch archetypes out into a third, maybe fourth color, OR you can focus on a pivot color that has 80% or more of the support for the theme and then oly add support cards in other colors, that are good elsewhere. Both ways work really well and can be combined, depending on the archetype.
I think throwing some painlands or such into the cube is very unlikely to result in 5-color good stuff. It's happening when the raw power level of good stuff cards of different colors can beat a synergistic two-color deck. I don't see that happening here, even with a lot more fixing. Believe me, I dislike 5-color good stuff more than most, I even support mono color in my cube quite strongly, and yet I would recommend for a little more fixing.
Regarding fixing: I think it is partially desired, because I do not want people to play 4-5 colour nonsense with all strong cards and without synergy. That's why I followed the original MMA design and put only basic landcyclers as fixing: we have three full cycles (Gleam of Resistance, Eagles of the North and Landscaper Colos) plus a couple of "five colour" fixing lands, and the Vivids. I think this should be enough for two-coloured and maybe also three-coloured decks, but I am open to advice!
I think throwing some painlands or such into the cube is very unlikely to result in 5-color good stuff. It's happening when the raw power level of good stuff cards of different colors can beat a synergistic two-color deck. I don't see that happening here, even with a lot more fixing. Believe me, I dislike 5-color good stuff more than most, I even support mono color in my cube quite strongly, and yet I would recommend for a little more fixing.