Card/Deck Creature Cloning/Stealing Variants

[Diakonov]

Let me know if I'm missing any important ones.

Cloning



Self-Cloning




Stealing



Counterspell Stealing



It would be neat if there was a Control Magic variant with Vanishing.

How do we feel about these cards? I'm fairly liberal with clone effects, but I tend to be wary of those that steal. I've cut Gilded Drake, Vedalken Shackles and Treachery from my cube for being overly strong.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

 

[GenericZero]

I like clone effects & steal effects. Clone ones are much more fair & definitely fun. Steal effects are something you gotta be careful with. That being said, I like shower of temptation & confiscate a lot. Counterspells that steal are usually just not good enough. I'd avoid them.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

For the record, I think Bribery is Not Fun.

 

[Eric Chan]

the better question is: how many of each effect do you run

i'm at one and zero

 

[Suicufnoc]

How about this?

 

[frostymoose]

Is Vedalken Shackles as oppressive in reality as it is in my nightmares?

 

[CML]

all of these, except dance of many, gilded drake, kheru spellsnatcher, and probably vedalken shackles in the opposite direction, are of the right power level to fit into at least somebody's list.

i am grateful to dia for going to the trouble of compiling the thread and everyone else for commenting in it, but i have a couple issues with the thread so far. first of all, briberying people is fucking funny and any playgroup that dislikes it should be traded in for standard staples, it's not like we're putting emrakul or griselbrand into play with most of our cubes. i am definitely adding bribery to my cube next time i do an update. second of all, a glaring omission anyone with or without tribal should look at is this guy:



as always, whatever you run past a certain point becomes a matter of taste. here are some opinions you should share.

too boring -- clone, student, impersonator, control magic, mind control
too repetitive -- spitting image, stolen identity, progenitor mimic (also, shackles)
too expensive -- enslave, nicky b
too conditional -- keiga, allure, threads
irrational animus -- desertion, spelljack, cackling counterpart, rite of replication
cards i have tried that look sweet but nobody liked and/or drafted them -- preacher, old man of the sea, vesuvan shapeshifter, evil twin
first alternates (worth another look) -- bribery, ritual of the machine
in my cube -- image, metamorph, dack's duplicate, helm of possession

 

[Onderzeeboot]

For the record, I think Bribery is Not Fun.

first of all, briberying people is fucking funny and any playgroup that dislikes it should be traded in for standard staples, it's not like we're putting emrakul or griselbrand into play with most of our cubes. i am definitely adding bribery to my cube next time i do an update.

I should clarify: Casting Bribery is Fun, because stealing cards is fun, and stealing the best possible creature your opponent plays? Heck yes! Being on the receiving end of Bribery however is decidedly Not Fun. It doesn't matter that we're not cubing Griselbrand or Emrakul, your best creature is still tutored out of your deck and cast for the low price of 5 mana. It's like Praetor's Grasp and Elvish Piper had an unholy child at almost half the cost.

 

[Dom Harvey]

put Vanishing 3 over Fading 2 on the custom card IMO

I like Image, Metamorph, Dack's Duplicate, and Clever Impersonator, and am tempted by Twinflame though it's surely terrible.

 

[Goldenpineapple]

I actually thought it was Dack's Duplicant until these last couple posts, despite owning a copy of the card.

I think cloning/stealing is one of the lamest/more boring designs as far as gameplay goes. They enable some real wacky board states and big turnarounds but I don't think their power level is = their price / lack of commitment they require. I like that blue struggles with a resolved beater, I don't want it to be rubbing its hands- "I need you to play that threat because I forgot to draft anything substantial, thanks." If more clones were self-only I'd be a-ok with that, but it's almost punishing to get your thing cloned then killed. "Why did I draft that when I could've drafted a clone and just had everything?" etc.

I run one, sower, because it's the most vulnerable to the most things in my list while still feeling powerful. I want stealing someone's stuff to be something of a gamble, and sower is a huge blowout roughly as often as it fails miserably, which is what I want. I like callous oppressor! Unfortunately my players have proven themselves real silly (AKA cheaty) when it comes to memory cards.

 

[Chris Taylor]

For the record, I think Bribery is Not Fun.

It's very much a product of it's enviornment. It is a horribly context dependant 5 drop after all. Lucas proved to me many a time sometimes you get dross like phantom centaur and lose on the next attack steap

FWIW: Ritual of the Machine is sweet, but I'm not sure it's an effect black needs. 4CC hurts when you want it, and I'm not convinced it's not better than something more streamlined like bone splinters or innocent blood.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

I'm playing confiscate, legacy's allure, helm of possession and





For those who play it, how is hypnotic siren? Do you need enchantment matters, blue beats, bidet of thassa to play it?

I'm also playing



Is that relevant for this thread?

 

[CML]

I should clarify: Casting Bribery is Fun, because stealing cards is fun, and stealing the best possible creature your opponent plays? Heck yes! Being on the receiving end of Bribery however is decidedly Not Fun. It doesn't matter that we're not cubing Griselbrand or Emrakul, your best creature is still tutored out of your deck and cast for the low price of 5 mana. It's like Praetor's Grasp and Elvish Piper had an unholy child at almost half the cost.

nah it's pretty funny when that happens

 

[GenericZero]

I still hate Ray of Command. It just takes very precious design space from red when red really needs more to do and blue doesn't.

 

[Chris Taylor]

I still hate Ray of Command. It just takes very precious design space from red when red really needs more to do and blue doesn't.

Ray of command really did fill the whole I had when I felt my cube needed 1.5 control magics.
I figure as a one off, it's not stepping on red's toes so much, especially since it usually plays so differently.

I kinda wish it worked the way it used to though, where it returns the creature to them tapped. Thesedays you just untap with it, but you used to be able to psudo-fog with it as well

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Maybe I should be playing



Instead?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Grab doesn't untap, that has always bothered me. Otherwise it's awesome.

 

[Diakonov]

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

 

[Lucre]

Binding grasp and control magic are no joke and tend to not be too nuts in most environs.
Confiscate is cool if you have a lot of walkers etc.

MIND CONTROL needs a boost to my eye in all but peasant but that format is even sometimes a little fast for her.
Slave to bolas is kinda cute and so is ray of command. Menriki is also super funny and interaction heavy.

I've been thinking about this for a long time

Cube Siren
Creature - Siren
Bestow
Flying, Flash
You control enchanted creature.
Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 and has flying.
1/1

 

[Aikola]

Way back in the day my friend had a deck that ran this card.

Quite annoying as it dodges removal for both creatures and aura's

 

[FlowerSunRain]

One of my friends described a resolved treachery as being "a kick in the balls" and I'm starting to think the card might not have a place in my cube anymore. The amount of swinginess in that card might be above the line.

Way back in the day my friend had a deck that ran this card.

Quite annoying as it dodges removal for both creatures and aura's

I liked the card, but its a bit confusing for some of the more casual players. Could be a decent treachery alternative, though.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

I've seen a few



In lists. How are they getting on? Do you need super synergy or is it playable by itself?

 

[Eric Chan]

When I had it, it was a little below the bar. Even in the aggressive blue decks around here, a 1/1 flyer for didn't contribute meaningfully to the board state, and those decks often didn't hit seven mana.