Eric Chan's Modern cube (405)

[Grillo_Parlante]

Probably better to run two copies of goblin bombardment than bombardment/rusalka?

Really hope bushwhacker is good enough.

 

[Eric Chan]

I got that idea from your sample decklists! It seems really sweet, gives another dimension to aggro decks in the lategame, is fetchable by Ranger of Eos, and was excellent back in Standard in the Boros decks of that era. I can't believe I never thought of that card before you posted about it a week or two ago.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

I really don't see the appeal of bushwacker but everyone seems high on it. Doesn't seem worth a card to me and ranger of eos is the only decent synergy I've seen so far. Anyone care to try to explain why I should think about it?

The rushaka is terrible though I'm afraid. There are better options in red, even at a slower curve. Perhaps Chris is on to something re bombardment being too good. A function of environment though?

 

[Chris Taylor]

Eh, yes and no. Speaking as someone who did actually try barrage of expendables, even if goblin bombardment is too good every alternative is utter crap.
Blasting Station is okay, and spawning pit is okay, but every other sac outlet either costs mana or doesn't affect the board (Yay you milled me for 10 whole cards with your altar of dementia. Was it good for you? You gonna move to blocks or not?)

 

[Eric Chan]

Maybe double Greater Gargadon is the answer? I was hoping that Scorched Rusalka could be a fringe player in non-sacrifice themed red decks, a la Gruul aggro circa 2006, whereas most of the other options are narrower.

Goblin Bushwhacker is a card that was excellent as a 1-of in the standard Boros landfall aggro decks of that period. It's a late game red "overrun", if you will, except instead of granting trample, it gives your whole team haste. That might seem underwhelming, and I agree that it reads poorly, but it combined really well with a turn four Ranger of Eos in the day, because you could fetch him, another one-drop, and have a veritable army to attack with on turn five. He tends to be used as a last ditch reach creature in aggro decks, and encourages the player to run a go-wide swarm strategy, which is more interesting than many of the red alternatives that are just burn spells to the face.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

I have no idea if goblin bushwhacker will ultimately make it in Eric's higher power format, but I will say that I hope that it does.

It fills an important hole in the card record: a 2cc overrun effect attached to a creature. Most aggro buffs will run you 3cc+, don't come with a body, or will require an attack trigger. This is really awkward if you are trying to push people towards running aggro decks with low curves and low land counts.

Its also a very fun card to play, that rewards carefully playing towards one explosive turn, and finding ways to moderate or minimize the risk of overplaying. This greatly increases the strategic dimensions of those decks.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Gargadon is a weird one. anyone else got feelings on that guy?
I seem to vaguely remember CML hating it? And I don't think it was because he revealed it to bob

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

It was too slow and never did anything. I like garg, but bombardment is much better imo in the same role.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Are you clear what it is you're trying to do with the card? Are you looking for another red card that lets you sacrifice creatures? Or something you can make on turn one that gives your red aggro decks some reach?

I think Jason also said he didn't like Gargadon. I'm relatively ambivalent about it if I'm honest but still playing it. It can eventually lead to a nice bit of tension, but I think there might be better ways to use the card slot.

 

[RavebornMuse]

I find Gargadon totally unplayable garbage

It was the last card in a pack in a draft once and I was in red and I was STILL unhappy to take it

I just don't see the point of it outside of some really niche Magical Christmas Land scenarios and it suffers from a serious case of Dies-to-Removal while being nearly uncastable in the decks that might run him

Also I really like Altar of Dementia as a sac outlet. To me, mill is a sort of super counterspell/boardwipe/removal spell without ever feeling too bad for the person being milled comparatively. There have been so many times that I'm not even in a strictly mill deck that I've slotted in Altar just for value when my dudes are gonna die, and I gotta say, those times that I mill something I know would have wrecked my day make me feel pretty boss. I think it's harder to appreciate than a counterspell or a board wipe or a removal spell because your opponent didn't waste any mana on those cards you just sent to the graveyard, but when you mill your opponent's only board wipe in response to a removal spell or bin a Planeswalker you know your control opponent was dying to draw, I think there's a lot of advantage to be gained from that that goes up in value as you learn what's in your opponent's deck. I won't always maindeck Altar in a non-mill deck, but it can be sweet value imho.

 

[safra]

I find Gargadon totally unplayable garbage

It was the last card in a pack in a draft once and I was in red and I was STILL unhappy to take it

I just don't see the point of it outside of some really niche Magical Christmas Land scenarios and it suffers from a serious case of Dies-to-Removal while being nearly uncastable in the decks that might run him

Also I really like Altar of Dementia as a sac outlet. To me, mill is a sort of super counterspell/boardwipe/removal spell without ever feeling too bad for the person being milled comparatively. There have been so many times that I'm not even in a strictly mill deck that I've slotted in Altar just for value when my dudes are gonna die, and I gotta say, those times that I mill something I know would have wrecked my day make me feel pretty boss. I think it's harder to appreciate than a counterspell or a board wipe or a removal spell because your opponent didn't waste any mana on those cards you just sent to the graveyard, but when you mill your opponent's only board wipe in response to a removal spell or bin a Planeswalker you know your control opponent was dying to draw, I think there's a lot of advantage to be gained from that that goes up in value as you learn what's in your opponent's deck. I won't always maindeck Altar in a non-mill deck, but it can be sweet value imho.

idk, the value comes too conditionally for me. I played it and it either did nothing or tried to combo out, which is a design I'm happy to run a few of. Unforch though but a card milled might as well be on the bottom of their deck, since the contents of your library are unknown info (also i run too much graveyard recursion to be able to endorse 'mill you for six'). I get that it isn't, I just don't think the calculus supports a distinction. I haven't played with it yet but I'm really excited about Evolutionary Leap as a sac outlet that moves the game forward.

 

[Eric Chan]

Right, the danger of milling people is that for every time you mill their bomb, there's another time where you mill some inconsequential cards and get them closer to their bomb. Still, though, point taken about having a free sac outlet that does something on every activation! Is Spawning Pit at all playable, or just complete jank...?

 

[RavebornMuse]

Right, the danger of milling people is that for every time you mill their bomb, there's another time where you mill some inconsequential cards and get them closer to their bomb. Still, though, point taken about having a free sac outlet that does something on every activation! Is Spawning Pit at all playable, or just complete jank...?

I'd rather Culling Dais than Pit tbh because I am a glutton for card draw but Pit miiiight just barely pass muster. Maybe just offer it as part of a community well of cards you want playtested rather than slotting it straight in and see if anyone can do anything neat with it? I think I'd personally rather trade bodies for some late-game draw power in a pinch but the tokens off pit have some potential value with stuff like Purphy (I cut him tho cuz he's a real snooze over here).

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

In the various iterations of my formats garg has gone from a solid first pick to something that should wheel. It had its glory days as a combo piece with balance, and even now it feels like a medium card to me, though its obviously much better in slow formats where getting a free 9/7 and being able to cast something else is pretty good. The value comes from costing 1 and being able to convert removal into a clock, or facilitating your own sac strategies with a decent reward. Its also a sac outlet that eats anything. It has lead to some exciting turns over here, but its main weakness is that it had no immediate impact on the board, which can be fatal flaw the more active the format or matchup.

In my long search for aggro sac outlets, gob bombardment has pretty much always been the best. Free, cheap, dosen't tap and impacts the board right away is hard to beat. Pit was always too slow and clunky over here

 

[Chris Taylor]

I haven't ever actually tried spawning pit, but I will say it's got some major advantages:

• Mana free sacrificing (Key)
• affects the board (Altar)
• Sacrifice deck and "Can't block" theme deck have some major major overlap, so the 2/2s will put in work just being thrown under the bus in the worst case
• Any sac outlet that feeds itself should probably be paid attention to. While likely horrible, can you imagine a board of gravecrawler, Zombie, Blood Artist, and Tooth and Claw? I remember we all ran Pawn of Ulamog for doubling up on food, and this is a less efficient version of that effect but on a sac outlet
• Probably more effective in a random non-dedicated deck than other sac outlets might be? I feel like an aggro deck might run this, might run Evolutionary Leap, but the odds are worse they'll run goblin bombardment, Blasting Station or (ugh) Altar of Dementia

And no Raven, mill is not "Some kind of super counterspell/removal/boardwipe". Removal deals with cards your opponent has access to, which affects the outcome of the game. Mill deals with cards your opponent has no access to, which does not. I know it feels great when you mill away your opponents grave titan, but the odds are just as good they never drew that card anyways. The only time milling something is worth it is if it kills your opponent, as is the case with cards like Jace, Memory Adept, Nemesis of Reason, Nephalia Drownyard, or Sword of Body and Mind, or if they have specifically cast something to make the top card of their library relevant, like vampiric tutor.

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

Yeah, milling essentially reads "shuffle your opponents deck". Does screw with scry nicely though, which actually is a thing sort off in a few games.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

You've been talking in another thread about trying to slow down your environment, because of the enjoyment of khans block, which I've been trying to for pretty much the same reasons. One of the features of khans draft is the come into play tapped lands, which I'm going the full hog with - trilands, bouncelands and scrylands, plus a few city of brass style lands to help support aggro a little bit. It puts quite a focus on your one drops.

One thing I'm thinking about/struggling with is green and what you do with the mana dorks. If you're slowing down the environment, you don't want a wealth of elvish mystics to accelerate out 3cc guys on the second turn. Have you had any thoughts on this? I recognise you don't have the same issue with your lands.

I'm thinking:



And perhaps that suspend rampant growth, whose name escapes me at the moment. This doesn't leave a lot, and asks for other green one drops to give it something to do in the early turns. Ideas/thoughts/considerations/suggestions?

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

What about moving it all a turn behind? Elvish Mystic becomes leaf gilder

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

If you are running bouncelands, you could scale up your ramp to effects that untap bouncelands. So stuff like og garruk and frantic search-its slower ramp but the ceiling on it is much higher.

I still think honored hierarch is pretty bad. Also lotus cobra would be great with bounclands.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Thanks guys, and don't mean to hijack your thread too much Eric! I have lots of great options at two so I'm not particularly worried about them, it's what to do with the one drop. It might be that there's not many more options at the moment from a suitable mana accelerant perspective.

 

[Dom Harvey]

There's enough 2-mana ramp to go around:

Sylvan Caryatid
Overgrown Battlement
Wall of Roots
Rattleclaw Mystic
Bloom Tender
Devoted Druid
Gyre Sage
Lotus Cobra
Werebear

Fertile Ground

 

[Eric Chan]

That's an interesting idea I hadn't considered. When I meant I wanted to slow down the format and remove some of the one-drops, I was more referring to narrow, two-power, one-drop guys that only go in the fastest weenie decks - your Goblin Guides and Soldiers of the Pantheon. I'm less concerned about mana elves, because Arbor Elf is still fine as a turn two play to accelerate out a four-drop on turn three. Green decks also weren't the culprits that were ending games on turn five, so I don't really think I need to change much there, at least for now.

I do already run Lotus Cobra, and bouncelands in the utility draft, so that is a thing!

Garruk Wildspeaker is probably my favourite planeswalker of all time, but is slightly stronger than I want walkers in my environment to be. He also unfortunately encourages the type of no-plan, all-goodstuff midrange decks that I'm not fond of, and as green already has the biggest tendency to default to midrange here, I've removed any and all Garruks for the time being.

 

[Eric Chan]

A couple of people dropped out of our most recent session at the last minute and we ended up with only four players, so we tried out sealed deck, for probably the first and only time. As you might expect, the main difference between draft and sealed in a 'Riptide cube' is that your fixing goes from amazing to horribad. The winner was the deck that stuck to (mostly) two colours:

Boros Aggro

This next deck didn't do as well, but is now possibly my favourite incarnation of Super Friends from my list:

Brotherhood of Evil Planeswalkers

 

[sigh]

For four people I've really fallen in love with tenchester drafting. I have a 405, and I just make 10 packs of 10 per drafter. Drafting expectations have to change because you only get one pick a pack, but it works out really well imo. This arose partially from the exact issues of 'riptide' sealed, and partially because drafting normal style just doesn't work cleanly at 4 people.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Well, I wouldn't place the blame on your cube being "Riptidey". I thought we ran more fixing than average?

No argument from me though. I've played plenty of 8-8-Mutavault decks in my day, and it sucks

Do you think that deck needs the 3rd compulsive research in Beleran? I've recently cut him for being so boring/replacable