The Video Game Thread
- Thread starter James Stevenson
- Start date
Convince me not to hate the fact that I bought Super Mario Maker. Nintendo was all like "hey, what if we put the content in the users' hands, but didn't develop systems to highlight the worthwhile content or have it aggregated in any intelligent way, so that mostly they just encounter shit over and over and over".
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Find some people who's levels you like and follow them, I've found that's a good way to see new levels that will appeal to you.
I know that's possible, but what I really wish people could release are sets of levels. I want to play an 8-level world, start with X lives and see if I can make it to the end. I want people to be able to put together those level sets with levels that aren't even theirs.
I also just have one uploaded course, it's much more straightforward than yours:
4C5F-0000-0094-61EF
It's fairly easy. Girlfriend beat it in two tries and said it "felt like a real Mario level". When I built it I didn't have many of the tools unlocked yet. Next project is an autoscroller I have in mind.
4C5F-0000-0094-61EF
It's fairly easy. Girlfriend beat it in two tries and said it "felt like a real Mario level". When I built it I didn't have many of the tools unlocked yet. Next project is an autoscroller I have in mind.
How many people here actually have the game? I would love a place to pow-wow about video game design.
I am a super Melee enthusiasts, but I've found all the Rivals of Aether trailers to be very offputting.
In other news I now have a functioning Gamecube in my apartment (thanks James for the GC, thanks Amazon for the replacement video cable), with one game (which constitutes a complete collection).
Aoret
Developer
Don't have it, not gonna get it, but I suspect that any such discussion is similar enough to the rest of what we do here to be interesting to a good portion of our members.
Okay, so here are my thoughts so far.
My primary enjoyment from Mario comes from the joy of movement. More specifically, from "jumping to not die". Not constantly, but for me there's a sweetspot of difficulty, probably around world 6-8 in a traditional Mario game. I want to beat a level in 5 tries.
I don't want to solve a puzzle. Sorry if that's your thing. I have never liked fixed-solution puzzle solving. I want some freedom of expression in how I tackle a level's obstacles. More Tetris, less that Rush Hour board game where you try to slide your car out of gridlock.
I don't want to be able to entirely circumvent a level's obstacles. So many levels can be beaten by hopping into a Lakitu cloud, and it's not satisfying at all. If you have flying in your level, have it change the way you interact with the level, not eliminate interaction.
To this end, my first level gave you the NSMB Propellor suit. It's an underground level, with a ceiling, so there's only so far you can go. Moreover, if you use the propellor suit, you encounter different dangers than you do without it. There are heat-seaking bullet bills that only really trigger if you use the suit. You have more maneuverability (and two secret areas to access), but additional dangers. Obviously the level can be completed entirely as small Mario. No fixed solutions.
Flight is fun in Mario, but not when you use it to interact with the level. My favorite things when playing the NSMB levels was to try and hold on to the flying powers for as long as possible. To use them on stages where you weren't necessarily intended to have them. You can beat it without them, but the level changes when you're flying around.
For me, I want to reward players with fun. The joy of movement. It should ideally be fun to play a level a second time. I've played through World 1 of SMB3 countless times, and it's always a joy. That's what I want to see captured in Mario Maker design.
My primary enjoyment from Mario comes from the joy of movement. More specifically, from "jumping to not die". Not constantly, but for me there's a sweetspot of difficulty, probably around world 6-8 in a traditional Mario game. I want to beat a level in 5 tries.
I don't want to solve a puzzle. Sorry if that's your thing. I have never liked fixed-solution puzzle solving. I want some freedom of expression in how I tackle a level's obstacles. More Tetris, less that Rush Hour board game where you try to slide your car out of gridlock.
I don't want to be able to entirely circumvent a level's obstacles. So many levels can be beaten by hopping into a Lakitu cloud, and it's not satisfying at all. If you have flying in your level, have it change the way you interact with the level, not eliminate interaction.
To this end, my first level gave you the NSMB Propellor suit. It's an underground level, with a ceiling, so there's only so far you can go. Moreover, if you use the propellor suit, you encounter different dangers than you do without it. There are heat-seaking bullet bills that only really trigger if you use the suit. You have more maneuverability (and two secret areas to access), but additional dangers. Obviously the level can be completed entirely as small Mario. No fixed solutions.
Flight is fun in Mario, but not when you use it to interact with the level. My favorite things when playing the NSMB levels was to try and hold on to the flying powers for as long as possible. To use them on stages where you weren't necessarily intended to have them. You can beat it without them, but the level changes when you're flying around.
For me, I want to reward players with fun. The joy of movement. It should ideally be fun to play a level a second time. I've played through World 1 of SMB3 countless times, and it's always a joy. That's what I want to see captured in Mario Maker design.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I don't have it, but based on your points you would enjoy Ori and the Blind Forest. It perfectly captures that constant sense of movement, and your movement modes evolve over time in a super satisfying way. Do yourself a favor 
Edit: Seriously, this game is insanely good. I can not put into words how much I enjoyed it, but one Steam review comes damn close:
Also, Mario rocks, but I don't have a console on which I can play SMM, nor do I intend to buy one just for that game (or a handful of games).
Edit: Seriously, this game is insanely good. I can not put into words how much I enjoyed it, but one Steam review comes damn close:
Also, Mario rocks, but I don't have a console on which I can play SMM, nor do I intend to buy one just for that game (or a handful of games).
I don't have it, but based on your points you would enjoy Ori and the Blind Forest. It perfectly captures that constant sense of movement, and your movement modes evolve over time in a super satisfying way. Do yourself a favor
Edit: Seriously, this game is insanely good. I can not put into words how much I enjoyed it, but one Steam review comes damn close:
Also, Mario rocks, but I don't have a console on which I can play SMM, nor do I intend to buy one just for that game (or a handful of games).
Wii U is super duper fun for 4-player gaming, but I wouldn't consider buying it for the single-player experience.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Yeah, and 4-player gaming is not something I am going to do, considering that I have a PS3 with two controllers that hasn't been used for ages except as a blue-ray DVD player. Game looks so cool though, loved the youtube clips I watched.
I don't have it, but based on your points you would enjoy Ori and the Blind Forest. It perfectly captures that constant sense of movement, and your movement modes evolve over time in a super satisfying way. Do yourself a favor
Ori and the Blind Forest is amazing, I came into it with fairly low expectations and it blew me away.
For the most part I feel the same. I have played a few "puzzle" levels that have been really wonderful, however, especially if they still require you to pull off some difficult acrobatic stunts.
For example, the very beginning of one level (New Super Mario Bros. style) had Mario trapped behind a very tall vertical pipe with open air on the other side. I was stumped at first since there wasn't a second pipe to wall jump back and forth between. After a minute or so I figured out that a wall jump followed by a twist motion would elevate Mario ever so slightly on the pipe, and through repetition you could climb the entire pipe one-sided. Even once I realized this, it took very precise timing and you had to develop a rhythm to get to the top, and it was SO satisfying when I finally pulled it off. Even though I died immediately to the next puzzle, the first part was still enjoyable as I became better and better at quickly ascending the pipe with ease.
Regarding "level circumventing": I have very fond and nostalgic memories of discovering secrets in Mario levels. I know that's not everyone's bag, but I can't help myself from trying to recreate that experience for people who may appreciate it. Being able to use a random Lakitu cloud you encounter is just lazy design IMO.
I wish I could play SMM but no one I know has a Wii U and I don't wanna buy one for it. Game looks sweet as fuck though, I spent part of yesterday watching videos on Youtube after reading the discussion in here. I mean, I still play SM64 from time to time b/c that game is GOAT. The N64 was so sweet.
Aoret
Developer
I played Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes this weekend after my best friend's rehearsal dinner for his wedding. Super fun game, works well in a large group setting, works well when the group is scattered across the Sober-Drunk continuum. The tl;dr is it's asymmetric gameplay mechanics with one bomb defuser playing the video game and one (or more) experts with a very convoluted paper manual, neither can see what the other is looking at.
True to the reviews, a bit of the magic is lost once you kinda figure out the gist of the game, so it's not gonna be one with a ton of replay value. A given playgroup quickly establishes a verbal shorthand that makes solving things a lot easier. The best way I can think of to avoid this is to prevent the audience from seeing either the manual or the screen while gameplay is happening. I actually think I enjoyed spectating the most when I wasn't able to see either one.
The best analogy I can think of is that it's kinda like Cards Against Humanity for replay value. You'll absolutely lose your mind the first five minutes of gameplay, then it's still super entertaining for the first night, pretty good the next few times, and then you probably just don't want to play unless you have new people who have never seen it.
In conclusion: if you have the $15 to spend and a group of friends to play with, absolutely get it, but don't expect more than a handful of sessions out of it.
True to the reviews, a bit of the magic is lost once you kinda figure out the gist of the game, so it's not gonna be one with a ton of replay value. A given playgroup quickly establishes a verbal shorthand that makes solving things a lot easier. The best way I can think of to avoid this is to prevent the audience from seeing either the manual or the screen while gameplay is happening. I actually think I enjoyed spectating the most when I wasn't able to see either one.
The best analogy I can think of is that it's kinda like Cards Against Humanity for replay value. You'll absolutely lose your mind the first five minutes of gameplay, then it's still super entertaining for the first night, pretty good the next few times, and then you probably just don't want to play unless you have new people who have never seen it.
In conclusion: if you have the $15 to spend and a group of friends to play with, absolutely get it, but don't expect more than a handful of sessions out of it.
Am I the only one that thinks Cards Against Humanity tries way too hard? I don't think the answer cards themselves need to be funny, they just need to exist. Let the combinations and the creativity of the players give it life. I don't need a long, excessively vulgar answer card, it just seems juvenile and makes me cringe.
I've gotten far more mileage out of Apples to Apples, but try to avoid Cards Against Humanity at every opportunity.
I've gotten far more mileage out of Apples to Apples, but try to avoid Cards Against Humanity at every opportunity.
Any of you played Torquel? I saw it on a Penny-Arcade video and it looked pretty fun.