Ghaea, land of adventures

[Mauricio Barriga]

Hi, I just finished tuning my new cube and it would be cool if you could give some feedback.

Long story short, a couple months ago while drifting through cubetutor I found a guy who made a cube where you had to pick your lands from the draft pool. I really liked the concept and decided to use it for an original cube.

Key features
You have to pick your lands from the draft pool
Three levels of difficulty for different skill levels:
Easy: Four 15 card boosters per player
Normal: Three 17 card boosters per player
Brutal: Three 15 card boosters player (Seriously, if you make a mistake in your picks here you are screwed)

Stats:
455 Cards
Unbalanced colors
Not Singleton
Eternal

Archetypes
Morph
Metalcraft/Artifacts

Domain
WGrb Allies
Rw Goblins
W Soldiers

Also, I tried to fit some "combo" stuff too: Dark depths and Door to nothingness.
The tribes "bleed" a lot into each other thanks to every creature having more than one of the tribes subtypes.

So, I would like to hear your thoughts on Dark depths and door to nothingness. Do you think they have been smoothly implemented? Also, I have been thinking in adding some more manlands and support for a Land Deck (treasure hunt, trade routes, etc). I might be suffering from tunnel vision, if you can draft this and check if there's anything off please let me know.

Here is the link for Cube Tutor:

http://www.cubetutor.com/visualspoiler/57583

 

[safra]

This is a very neat idea and I think you have a pretty good base to build on. I have a few thoughts:

-Conspiracies are very strong, possibly too strong given the lowered power level of your archetype cards
-Some of the top-shelf bombs like Frost Titan (and the abundance of Diamonds) means you can skip the opponent's early game, possibly while they stumble, and then invalidate it later
-I feel like there's not enough incentive to go into some of the less supported archetypes. Why would I pick up Shrines for incremental value when I could be picking up Serra Angel or Siege-Gang Commander?
-The land-fixing conspiracies I think in particular are a mistake and go against your design (look at my Sovereign's Realm deck for an example of why)
-I'd be careful with the land destruction since I think it'll hurt even more than usual here. Keldon Firebombers or Wildfire may just be game over? Trench Wurm is not going to have a beneficial effect on your environment, I fear
-I like how you're using Manifest to support the Morph theme. It adds a little more of The Fear which I think is crucial to Morph's success.
-4 Avaraxes might be too cute?
-I like the Flame Bursts, but as a point of context - the time I actually got to play someone's copy of the Desert Cube, they'd cut Kindles down to iirc 8 copies from the original 10-20. You might want to open up a few slots for more burn diversity.
-Splendid Reclamation feels like a very exciting card with no clear home. I'd love to see it further supported rather than cut - it's a great way to have more lands than your opponent. Life from the Loam I think is good but adding more creature lands might push them both into being contenders.
-You could further support Depths combo by adding Thespian's Stage, which I think would be a reasonable card here even without the combo.
-Another cool piece of support for the lands deck could be more creatures that tutor basic lands, or stuff like Satyr Wayfinder that helps dredge Loam while guaranteeing you hit your land drops.

Here's the decks I drafted:

Spoiler

UW Advantageous Allies from CubeTutor.com - 3x15

Sovereign's Control from CubeTutor.com - 3x17

Jund depths from CubeTutor.com

 

[Mauricio Barriga]

Safra thanks for your feedback,
-You are right about conspiracies, the are too strong for the format.
-Just noticed that the "+2" casting cost for targeting the titan is a little steep. Gonna look for a more interactive bomb. I would say the problem is the titan and not the diamonds, gonna see how it works (we a are drafting this tomorrow)
-I didn't have too much faith in the shrines when I first saw them, but after using them in EMA I think they are pretty good since they are harder to get rid off than creatures like serra angel and the commander. Also, since this is limited, you don't always get to pick the best cards. I also noticed that there's this feel of completion when you have a lot of shrines in your deck (at least thats how my playgroup feels about it). Gonna put them on the watchlist anyway.
-100% agreed. Those conspiracies warp the environment. Taking them all out today.
-Keldon firebombers are indeed too good here, its instant GG most of the times, gonna swap them. Wildfire decks are a little bit too easy to pull together here, just grab diamonds and blast the battlefield. Gonna try land destruction that doesn't kill creatures (Boom/Bust, Bend or break?). I should also tune down land destruction across the cube.
-I know, manifest is ossum!
-I don't get your point on team avarax. Do you think they are no good here?
-Sounds like a good idea, gonna tone down on flameburst (leave maybe 4-6) and i think chain lightning would be cool in here since most of the times you can pay for the rebound. Fireblast sounds good. Yep, gonna put some diversity in there. What do you think of accumulated knowledge?
-Yeah, splendid reclamation can be really neat. Gonna throw in some more manlands, trade routes and molten vortex.
-Thespian stage would rock here. Its an autoinclude.
-Instead of satyr (green is tight) gonna drop in mana vortex and trade routes for land discard. Cycle lands also help here. Still i need a way to put lands in hand faster.

Im going to update my list with your suggestions. It may take some time since i have to order the cards and they take like a month to get here (third world problems).

I really appreciate that you took time to draft my cube!

If you have any other ideas just throw them at me,

 

[Mad Prophet]

I'm personally all aboard the Avarax train. 8 Accumulated Knowledge seems like a bit much though. I have 4 in my list and sometimes that can feel like a lot. I know some people have reservations about silver borders but ____*seems great in your list. Also I really appreciate the mix of nonbasics and basics in your list. I often had to think really hard about whether I wanted a mountain or a zoetic cavern. Morph is actually just an all around great theme here. It helps keep you from stumbling on colors, which I think will make the colorless lands much more appealing. May i also suggest some light human tribal as you have about 50 already with a full 20 in white. Champion of the Parish might be a bit overboard but Angel of Glory's Rise is a little spicier than Aegis Angel, and Mayor of Avabruck is always fun.
*
no idea why, but the ____ just links to the wrong thing altogether..
Overall though, far Too Many Lands a unique take on cube.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

This cube is really sweet, and smart.

Did three 15 card packs:

G/W/b geddon from CubeTutor.com

The format looks like its about color fixing, and the difficulties in achieving it split drafting strategies in a couple different directions:

1. Drafting colorless cards and morphs
2. Drafting cards that take advantage of incidental color availability

I love formats that have some sort of internal drafting logic to them, rather than just asking the drafter to assemble a pool of the best cards coupled with the best fixing.

Some of the 2-3cc cards with double CC might be a bit much for this mana base, as well as some of the actual good cards (toxic deluge, siege-gang commander, whirler rogue, Pia and Kiran). Most of the format is quirky low power cards, and it feels weird to see muscle like that, though its so sparse maybe its fine.

Some of the 2-3 CC LD might be a bit mean as well, and that dwarf that just sits there eating non-basics.

I feel like there is some refining that can be done, and I have no idea how the games play out, but it certainty looks like a promising formula capable of recreating that khan's morph/multi-color tension better than a traditional cube.

 

[Mauricio Barriga]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies. So yesterday we had six man draft at my place. Three 17 cards booster per player. We had these decks (i think i got the win/loss results right):
1) 5C Morph-manifest: This was me. I really stumbled for having so many enter the battlefield tapped lands. Anyway, the tempo loss only made itself a problem when facing fast decks like the goblins. I played against Goblins, 5C "Goodstuff" and 3C "Midrange". The goblins deck utterly destroyed me and got my ass handed by Siege Gang commander, keldon champion and their friends (0-2). Won against the Dark Depths deck (2-0) but both wins were extremely tight. In both of them I won just by one turn (and 1 and 3 life). If i had used my pain lands a bit more in any of them I'm sure i would have died a terrible dead. The 3C "Midrange" gave me a hard time but I defeated him thanks to late game cycle lands and manifested chump blockers I went (2-0). One of the matches I won out of a manifested etched monstrosity that went unblocked, then i unmorphed and Booom! 10 damage to the face. That was pretty sweet.
2) Dark artifact Depths: This deck runned pretty smoothly, dark depths was actually and alternate win condition that won him 2 games out of nowhere. It was pretty neat when he pulled depths with vampire hexmage on the battlefield. He resolved his combo against me too but i locked his Marit Lage with a whip corder (yeah). He won against 3C midrange and lost to me and goblins. He won a match without ever using the depths too, against the midrange guy.
3) Mono red goblins: This guy curb stompped every single deck. He took a picture of his deck and should be sending it soon, I'll post it then. He had about 8 mountains and 8 other red producing non basics. He had 3 Avaraxes (well drafted), siege gang, keldon championm tuktuk, a bunch of goblin cannon fodder and some burn to spice things. I think he drafted really well and saw the opportunity when everyone was going lots of colors-oh my god why style of decks.
4) 4C Allies: This guy only drafted 14 lands, so he had to really work around his curve and mana producing artifacts went 1 win and 2 losses.
5) 5C "Good-Stuff": Lost 2 games, had to go home early.
6) 3C "Midrange": Lost 1 game (really long game) and had to go home early (brother of the midrange guy)

Some conclusions: Cromat sucks, its not worth going 5C for him. Grillo (cricket), you were right about siege gang commander, he is so back breaking here, same goes for the keldon champion. That TukTuk guy is also pretty strong, so much value for 3cmc. Toxic deluge here is a real double edged sword, life goes away really fast with those painlands. Pia/Kiran and Whirler rogue haven't been played yet, but gonna keep a close eye on them. I think Pia/Kiran might behave a little bit like SGC. That dwarf guy just sat there eating non basics all night, really hated.

Mad Prophet, I'm taking out a couple of those accumulated knowledge. I have a little reservation about silver borders, don't really know why, it just might be another string to be cut eventually. I like the idea of giving some more support to the human archetype since there are already tons of them going around. Team avarax was really sweet yesterday. Angel of glory sounds good, but i think the mayor would be too powerful. And yeah, theres a lot of lands here (i got the reference from your post, well played).

Some takeaways:

1) Morph really creates tension and keeps people on the edge of their seats. They also smooth mana screw.
2) Dark depths is really playable as an alternate win condition.
3) The struggle between lands and non lands is real. Drafters had a hard time.
4) The tempo loss from ETT lands is something you have to keep in check. If half your lands ETT, you are gonna be in trouble later on.
5) There's some work to be done in power balance.
6) Building your deck after the draft takes like 2 minutes.
7) Its so easy to clean and put everything in order after playing since there is no basic lands box or basic lands to sort from the decks.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Here are all the cards I was initially suspicious of:




Deluge and dismember are probably fine, but thats kind of interesting, as its premised on a lack of format lifegain. You might want to add a little bit to green or white, otherwise stalling out in the midgame, and than attriting them to death with evasive creatures, or black/red reach, becomes a strong plan. When you have static forms of reach and everyone is stuck with their starting 20, you can just win via board stalls.

If you up lifegain to balance that out, you'll want to look at deluge and dismember again.

Avalanche riders looks like an insane value play in this cube.

Strong cards that are pushing the power boundaries, but probably fine.



Also, chained to the rocks should probably be in a multi-color slot.

The topic of color inbalance is interesting here. Green seems very good, like it should be the best color, purely off of mana dorks, but is really contained. The real issue is that red gets a huge slice, and the format is positioned as such where what its doing is just insane. With so little format life gain reach, aggro plans become much better, as does chip damage and haste creatures. In addition, damage based removal is disproportionately good in that role due to all the morphs running around, and red has the best disruption in the form of LD.

Keldon Champion being strong is a good example of this, because that card shouldn't be that good. Its ceiling is basically ball lightning, and if people are doomed after a 6 damage hit, that says more about the stabilizing tools that players have to work with, than it does about champion being OP.

I'm sure you can really cut down on those singleton breaks as well. The original desert cube was more about top down design, and I'm not sure how much it was actually played or refined. All of those numbers were decided more as random artistic flourishes than to promote solid gameplay, and thats where a lot of the roughness is going to come from: what here is real and fun, and what here is just presentation.

 

[Mauricio Barriga]

Sorry for the late reply, been really busy lately. I completely agree with your point on stabilization. Red has to get less aggressive or the other colors need to get better tools. Also, gonna remove some of those insane value cards (like riders). Chained to the rocks should be in the multicolor section (don't know how this escaped from me). Im gonna remove some of the direct damage (mostly flame bursts) to open up design space and lower the burn count. I've been thinking a lot about how to tackle this. Gonna take out some accummulatted knowledges.

Last time we drafted this we had a blast, but I think it could be even better if I solve some of the power balance issues that are running around. On the weekend I'm making a big update and running a draft. So, takeaways:

1) Check on those power level offenders
2) Check lifegain (this could be an archetype)
3) Stabilizing tools
4) Land destruction

Thanks for your feedback Grillo, Im gonna polish this and see how it goes.

 

[Mauricio Barriga]

Just finished a big update!