got to cast Ugin's Insight on Ulamog in draft today, that was fun
Sets Battle for Zendikar Spoilers
- Thread starter Eric Chan
- Start date
Got 3rd place at FNM last night playing 5c BTL. Deck was super sweet, toolboxes are fun.
One-ofs are a lot of fun to play with, Gilt-Leaf Winnower let me wreck an Oblivion Sower when I went up against a ramp deck. My deck is more tuned to our local meta which is a lot of Red Aggro most of the time. Bring to Light is very very strong, even if a little slow. Mantis Rider is insanely good right now, dude straight up won me a match just bashing in like 2-3 times and then being able to Rhino them out. Nissa sucked ass and did nothing all evening, gonna cut her for sure since this a more aggressive build. Oh yeah, and I got wrecked one game by a Fathom Feeder out of the sideboard which ingested a Mountain and Forest and I was left with the shitty realization when I was about to crack a Foothills for a 5th land that I couldn't cast Ojutai b/c no more fetchable targets. That was pretty interesting.
The hardest part about the deck was figuring out which lands to play and remembering what colors I could fetch up with a given fetch. There's a lot of early game sequencing, but I found that the best way to do it was either Battle-Basic-Basic or preferably Basic-Basic-Battle. You really just want lands 4+ to come in untapped if possible.
I'll probably run it back next week, had a blast, and these would be the changes I'd make in the 75:
OUT:
IN:
5c Bring To Light
One-ofs are a lot of fun to play with, Gilt-Leaf Winnower let me wreck an Oblivion Sower when I went up against a ramp deck. My deck is more tuned to our local meta which is a lot of Red Aggro most of the time. Bring to Light is very very strong, even if a little slow. Mantis Rider is insanely good right now, dude straight up won me a match just bashing in like 2-3 times and then being able to Rhino them out. Nissa sucked ass and did nothing all evening, gonna cut her for sure since this a more aggressive build. Oh yeah, and I got wrecked one game by a Fathom Feeder out of the sideboard which ingested a Mountain and Forest and I was left with the shitty realization when I was about to crack a Foothills for a 5th land that I couldn't cast Ojutai b/c no more fetchable targets. That was pretty interesting.
The hardest part about the deck was figuring out which lands to play and remembering what colors I could fetch up with a given fetch. There's a lot of early game sequencing, but I found that the best way to do it was either Battle-Basic-Basic or preferably Basic-Basic-Battle. You really just want lands 4+ to come in untapped if possible.
I'll probably run it back next week, had a blast, and these would be the changes I'd make in the 75:
OUT:
IN:
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Yeah, deck looks awesome 
I'm really hoping Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper and Jeskai Ascendancy can come together this standard.
Anyways, how do you guys feel about landfall + Bouncelands?
Anyways, how do you guys feel about landfall + Bouncelands?
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I generally don't like the landfall mechanic, but retreat to coralhelm is a very strong card in a bounceland format. It was strong enough where I opted not to run it.
Retreat to kazundu is nice as a source of life gain for b/g life pay decks, and also works well in bant counter based strats. It just seems a little too good stuff though for my tastes.
Retreat to kazundu is nice as a source of life gain for b/g life pay decks, and also works well in bant counter based strats. It just seems a little too good stuff though for my tastes.
Why is that? Because of possible combinations with land untappers or for other reasons? (e.g. that it makes every land a scryland)
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Both reasons. It's either generating mass mana with land untap creatures, or its giving you a lot of control over your draws in a generally slower format. On top of that, its a difficult to interact with enchantment.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Is that from testing or from theorycrafting, because to me it reads like a three-card combo with a fragile piece (the land untapper) and a mediocre payoff (seven mana from turn four onward). It's not bad, but I certainly wouldn't call it too good.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Actual testing. I've been running those untap effects since I built the format. I think you're forgetting the context: its just another ramp strategy.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
No, I get that the untappers are your ramp effects, I just wondered if you actually drafted with Retreat to Coralhelm in your cube and found it overwhelming. I mean, if you tested it it's cool (even if you didn't it's still your call), the card just doesn't scream broken to me, and neither does a convoluted way to generate 7 mana on turn four, nor scry 1 every turn. It's just, I can't imagine a format where these effects would be gamebreakingly unfun.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
That makes more sense, though the way you are approaching the card still seems a little off to me. Describing it as a "convoluted way to generate 7 mana on turn four" dosen't feel right. These formats are slower in general, and the deck it goes into plays like a tron deck, so leveraging large amounts of mana into mana sinks or ramp threats is the strategy. I also don't think it should be being framed as a combo card within the context of that deck.
In addition, the card is blue, a color that already has balance issues (in terms of being the objectively most powerful color) and giving the color yet another card that synergizes in some way with big ramp strategies (the most broken strategy in the format), while also smoothing midgame and late game draws in a slower format, just upsets that balance in a way I would like to avoid. Its not so much a question of it being broken or not broken, as it is an issue of it being unhealthy for a format. If the abilities were tacked on a creature, or it was a different color, I might feel different.
Since I am the only one that runs bouncelands in a format, I assumed the question was directed at me, and based on my experiences with lower power bouncelands formats and those types of effects, its a very strong card, and one that I'm not really interested in running in an already very strong color.
If we are talking about a higher power format running bouncelands (at which point I am theory crafting), than I would think you should be ramping with untap planeswalkers (and maybe voyaging satyr) which substantially changes the role of the card.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Sweet explanation!
Any good?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Any good?
In my test games it's been pretty fantastic. Awesome with fetches, one-sided The Abyss in green, still solvable with a simple Doom Blade. Two thumbs up!
Any good?
Allow me to reiterate my stance previously posted in Fight Club;
And I will maintain that stance until they pry the Firebolts from my cold, dead hands
(good luck w/ that bitches I'm a fuckin lich lord)
These are some pretty different answers!
Not great in cube IMO. Suffers in a removal-filled world, can't rebuild itself as easily as other +1/+1 counter cards, lame topdeck where some other landfall-fueled cards are at least mildly respectable without landfall. It isn't a particularly good curve-out, either- it suffers from the "one turn slower" of many BFZ cards in general. Vinelasher Kudzu that... shrinks when chumped? No thanks.
Multicolor matters + +1/+1 counters. Can this card cut it in a 360?
Yeah, but mostly looking at building a Domain-esque theme into my main cube. 6/6 Vigilance Trample is a fun-feeling reward, and any proliferate shenanigans on top of that is bonus.
Imo it suffers from the gurmag angler problem of being good enough but not interesting enough.
I'm fine with french vanilla that you have to jump through some hoops for. I'm also putting Tribal Flames in my list, and Radiant Flames, and Volt Charge and Tezzeret's Gambit. Been missing having some nice multicolor incentives in the main 360.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Kranny said on his set review that for a 4-5 mana creature that is just a pile of stats to be playable, it needed to be Wolfir Silverheart or better (Ie a 12/12 90% of the time).
I think that statement makes blood leak out my ears it's so stupid.
Wanderer is a fine magic card so long as
A) Decks can reliably get a 3rd color, even if it's only off a random signet they're playing half of, or a splash off some fetchable mana source (Taiga in a RW deck, etc)
B) Your cube's removal is in a spot where creatures without ETB triggers or hexproof are playable at all.
I don't like it for the same reason I don't like Brimaz: Vigilance on a creature of that size tends to gum up the board hard for little cost, and the player who controls it is rarely actually making combat decisions.
I think that statement makes blood leak out my ears it's so stupid.
Wanderer is a fine magic card so long as
A) Decks can reliably get a 3rd color, even if it's only off a random signet they're playing half of, or a splash off some fetchable mana source (Taiga in a RW deck, etc)
B) Your cube's removal is in a spot where creatures without ETB triggers or hexproof are playable at all.
I don't like it for the same reason I don't like Brimaz: Vigilance on a creature of that size tends to gum up the board hard for little cost, and the player who controls it is rarely actually making combat decisions.
