TCGplayer is where I do most of my penny pinching. Vast piles of 2 cent cards! Just gotta set your cube's power level low enough for them to be relevant.
The Penny Pincher Cube (360)
- Thread starter Grillo_Parlante
- Start date
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Just placed the order for the cards/sleeves that I needed. Prices at TCG seemed reasonable, a bit better than channelfireball or starcity, and the stock (because you are ordering from multiple vendors) was much better. The only unpleasent part about the experience was the habitual "suspicious activity" detected due to how long the order was taking to place, and having to enter those cache codes.
I ended up keeping counterspell, but cutting dissipate for miscalculation. I went with a 4 chromatic star, 3 chromatic sphere split for the eggs (mostly due to limited stock), and decided to run goblin arsonist over mogg fanatic (not a big deal). I have a memnarch already, but am going to run the crusher for a little bit.
I ended up keeping counterspell, but cutting dissipate for miscalculation. I went with a 4 chromatic star, 3 chromatic sphere split for the eggs (mostly due to limited stock), and decided to run goblin arsonist over mogg fanatic (not a big deal). I have a memnarch already, but am going to run the crusher for a little bit.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I updated the OP, since it is somewhat reflective (and also includes a thank you to the people that helped) here is it reproduced below:
Hello!
Since I've completed the project, I am updating here. The spoilers below contain the original post.
The cube tutor link is here. To recap, this is lower power environment, drawing inspiration from my experiences in pauper, VMA, MMA, III, RGD, and KTK. Its designed to be an affordable, accessible, draft format at 360, that still has rich sophisticated interactions.
Originally, this was to be a singleton format, but during the building process we realized that this was holding back some of the more interesting aspects of the cube. Some of the original themes didn't come to fruition either due to narrowness or a lack of space.
I would like to take a moment to thank everyone that participated, either by drafting a deck, or leaving comments or thoughts in the thread. There were several points during the design process where user contributions helped clarify the best way to achieve the format's goals, without which the project would have been a failure (or at least cost me/time money figuring out what went wrong.
The unique gameplay angles that this cube is exploring are two fold:
1. The implications of a bounce land/cantrip based format to smooth out draws and prevent non-games.
2. The implications of a bounce land based format to enable sophisticated decks--in this instance, combo decks.
A theory for why RGD was such a beloved format is that it naturally had a lower % of non-games than other limited formats. You had amble access to cantrip effects,TOL manipulation, to power yourself through miserable draws, and bounce lands to address color/mana screw.
Higher power cubes can easily address color fixing issues with expensive fetch-shock-ABU dual lines, but fetch lands do not adequately address mana screw issues. Cheap bounce lands (unplayable in a higher powered format), however, do.
Another theory is that higher power (re: more expensive cards) allows for richer, deeper interactions than lower power cubes. I am not sure I agree with this, as I believe that lower power formats are uniquely positioned to enable a complex archetype that is generally problematic to design for in higher power environments: combo.
Lower power formats generally feature weaker combo disruption than their higher power brethern, as a natural result of WOTZ's card library. Their is more creative freedom to build from, and less of a need for non-interactive, largely spell-based, combo platforms. Here, I take heavy inspiration from Pauper's creature based, slightly slower, but very robust, familiar combo deck.
This is a bounceland based combo deck. As a result, the cube does not devout slots to narrow ritual effects (which rather jarringly jump the mana curve) the primary means of mana acc. (and color fixing) is provided for by the mana base itself. Bouncelands are a bit slower; and this is a win-win for everyone, as it allows for a complex archetype that a lot of people would enjoy, but dosen't ruin the fun of everyone else.
A final theory states that bouncelands are not really cubeable, since it creates an unfair disadvantage for aggro decks. I'm not sure I agree (at lower power level). KTK used CIPT lands to create a split in drafting strategies, with slower, greedy 4-5 color decks going down a strategic route of multi-color haymakers, while aggro decks use simplier mana bases to capitalize on the tempo loss inherient in CIPT lands. RGD had a similar (though perhaps not as pronounced) relationship with its multi-color haymaker strategies and its aggro strategies. I think this relationship is replicable here, and adds depth to the draft. I also have a few other strategic splits regarding the issue of mana fixing, represented by artifact eggs and green enchantments.
In sum, I think this limitation can result in interesting decisions, both in draft and in game.
Also, people generally don't draft mono-colored decks, so i.m.o it makes little sense to think in terms of "what does my green section do." Your green section will never be played on its own, it will always be supplimented by another color, which will warp whatever it is that its doing. The only exception, I find, is red. Someone will, inevitably, draft a mono-red aggro deck.
The design of this cube also really hammered in the importance of having broadly applicable cards. I think I was knocked off track a bit by MMA and VMA, each which use print runs to enable narrow decks in their respective formats. However, in cube, since you can't use a print run to control the availability of certain cards, every card must be broadly applicable. Its a bit like designing a good sideboard for a constructed environment with a broad array of possible matchups: your cards have to be relevent in many places, not just a few. For example, in cube, thirst for knowledge is a better card blue draw spell to run to support an artifact theme, than thoughtcast.
Also, of course, the need to minimize variance caused by:
1. Mana flood (addressed via mana sinks)
2. Color Screw (addressed via the proportional availability of mana fixers)
3. Mana Screw (addressed via bounce lands/cycling/cantrips/cheap TOL manipulation)
4. Poor Hands (addressed via deck building, cycling, cantrips, cheap TOL manipulaton)
Finally, the need to prevent:
1. Board stalls (addressed via evasive creatures, removal, combat tricks, temporary protection)
2. Removal Check/attrition Format (addressed via balanced threats with not toostrong/abundent removal)
UW: heroic/tempo
UB: Control/self-mill
BR: goblin Sacrifice/value reanimator
RG: Midrange Pump/Ramp
GW: Auras/+ + Counters
BW: Control/reanimator
UR: Spells Aggro-Combo/control
BG: Dredge/reanimation
RW: Wide Aggro/Control
GU: Ramp/self-mill
There is some flexibility here, of course. And:
R: goblin aggro
W: white weenie aggro
G: midrange
U: tempo
B: Control
Again, not too heavy of a focus on mono-color, since you will hardly every get a mono-color deck (beyond maybe red). I am ok with three+ color decks being a place of creative exploration, providing that they have a solid 2 color base to build from. Grixis and Esper are natural combo colors though.
Hello!
Since I've completed the project, I am updating here. The spoilers below contain the original post.
The cube tutor link is here. To recap, this is lower power environment, drawing inspiration from my experiences in pauper, VMA, MMA, III, RGD, and KTK. Its designed to be an affordable, accessible, draft format at 360, that still has rich sophisticated interactions.
Originally, this was to be a singleton format, but during the building process we realized that this was holding back some of the more interesting aspects of the cube. Some of the original themes didn't come to fruition either due to narrowness or a lack of space.
I would like to take a moment to thank everyone that participated, either by drafting a deck, or leaving comments or thoughts in the thread. There were several points during the design process where user contributions helped clarify the best way to achieve the format's goals, without which the project would have been a failure (or at least cost me/time money figuring out what went wrong.
Game Play
The unique gameplay angles that this cube is exploring are two fold:
1. The implications of a bounce land/cantrip based format to smooth out draws and prevent non-games.
2. The implications of a bounce land based format to enable sophisticated decks--in this instance, combo decks.
A theory for why RGD was such a beloved format is that it naturally had a lower % of non-games than other limited formats. You had amble access to cantrip effects,TOL manipulation, to power yourself through miserable draws, and bounce lands to address color/mana screw.
Higher power cubes can easily address color fixing issues with expensive fetch-shock-ABU dual lines, but fetch lands do not adequately address mana screw issues. Cheap bounce lands (unplayable in a higher powered format), however, do.
Another theory is that higher power (re: more expensive cards) allows for richer, deeper interactions than lower power cubes. I am not sure I agree with this, as I believe that lower power formats are uniquely positioned to enable a complex archetype that is generally problematic to design for in higher power environments: combo.
Lower power formats generally feature weaker combo disruption than their higher power brethern, as a natural result of WOTZ's card library. Their is more creative freedom to build from, and less of a need for non-interactive, largely spell-based, combo platforms. Here, I take heavy inspiration from Pauper's creature based, slightly slower, but very robust, familiar combo deck.
This is a bounceland based combo deck. As a result, the cube does not devout slots to narrow ritual effects (which rather jarringly jump the mana curve) the primary means of mana acc. (and color fixing) is provided for by the mana base itself. Bouncelands are a bit slower; and this is a win-win for everyone, as it allows for a complex archetype that a lot of people would enjoy, but dosen't ruin the fun of everyone else.
A final theory states that bouncelands are not really cubeable, since it creates an unfair disadvantage for aggro decks. I'm not sure I agree (at lower power level). KTK used CIPT lands to create a split in drafting strategies, with slower, greedy 4-5 color decks going down a strategic route of multi-color haymakers, while aggro decks use simplier mana bases to capitalize on the tempo loss inherient in CIPT lands. RGD had a similar (though perhaps not as pronounced) relationship with its multi-color haymaker strategies and its aggro strategies. I think this relationship is replicable here, and adds depth to the draft. I also have a few other strategic splits regarding the issue of mana fixing, represented by artifact eggs and green enchantments.
In sum, I think this limitation can result in interesting decisions, both in draft and in game.
Construction
Anyone that follows my posts knows that I favor an approach of writing out all 10 guilds, and developing a theme and sub-theme for each color pairing. This sort of structured design approach helps prevent "cube-designers regret" down the line, when you realize that no one is going into G/R, and now you need to patch in a few G/R decks, hoping that your inclusions/exclusions won't make the cube worse. By having all combinations represented, and a backup sub-theme, you help make sure that you have as broad a gamespace as possible for your drafters to explore, thus preventing (or at least delying) them from solving the format.Also, people generally don't draft mono-colored decks, so i.m.o it makes little sense to think in terms of "what does my green section do." Your green section will never be played on its own, it will always be supplimented by another color, which will warp whatever it is that its doing. The only exception, I find, is red. Someone will, inevitably, draft a mono-red aggro deck.
The design of this cube also really hammered in the importance of having broadly applicable cards. I think I was knocked off track a bit by MMA and VMA, each which use print runs to enable narrow decks in their respective formats. However, in cube, since you can't use a print run to control the availability of certain cards, every card must be broadly applicable. Its a bit like designing a good sideboard for a constructed environment with a broad array of possible matchups: your cards have to be relevent in many places, not just a few. For example, in cube, thirst for knowledge is a better card blue draw spell to run to support an artifact theme, than thoughtcast.
Also, of course, the need to minimize variance caused by:
1. Mana flood (addressed via mana sinks)
2. Color Screw (addressed via the proportional availability of mana fixers)
3. Mana Screw (addressed via bounce lands/cycling/cantrips/cheap TOL manipulation)
4. Poor Hands (addressed via deck building, cycling, cantrips, cheap TOL manipulaton)
Finally, the need to prevent:
1. Board stalls (addressed via evasive creatures, removal, combat tricks, temporary protection)
2. Removal Check/attrition Format (addressed via balanced threats with not toostrong/abundent removal)
Archetypes
The archetypes that I arrived at look to be:UW: heroic/tempo
UB: Control/self-mill
BR: goblin Sacrifice/value reanimator
RG: Midrange Pump/Ramp
GW: Auras/+ + Counters
BW: Control/reanimator
UR: Spells Aggro-Combo/control
BG: Dredge/reanimation
RW: Wide Aggro/Control
GU: Ramp/self-mill
There is some flexibility here, of course. And:
R: goblin aggro
W: white weenie aggro
G: midrange
U: tempo
B: Control
Again, not too heavy of a focus on mono-color, since you will hardly every get a mono-color deck (beyond maybe red). I am ok with three+ color decks being a place of creative exploration, providing that they have a solid 2 color base to build from. Grixis and Esper are natural combo colors though.
That's a fantastic cube manifesto, Grillo!
Not to get too off topic, but I think one of the natural ways to address mana screw is by creating a slower format. This both encourages people to play more lands than they normally would - such as how Khans of Tarkir heavily incentivizes players to run 18 lands, rather than the usual 17 - and also gives people time to catch up if they've missed their third land drop, knowing they won't be run over by two-power one-drops and three-power two-drops. Khans games very rarely come down to mana screw on either side of the table, and while I didn't play the original RGD format, I imagine the case was similar there as well.
Not to get too off topic, but I think one of the natural ways to address mana screw is by creating a slower format. This both encourages people to play more lands than they normally would - such as how Khans of Tarkir heavily incentivizes players to run 18 lands, rather than the usual 17 - and also gives people time to catch up if they've missed their third land drop, knowing they won't be run over by two-power one-drops and three-power two-drops. Khans games very rarely come down to mana screw on either side of the table, and while I didn't play the original RGD format, I imagine the case was similar there as well.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Thanks!
Yeah, it will be really interesting to see how things play out. I think that is a great point about the slower formats helping with mana screw, and is probably part of the puzzle for why those formats are viewed so positively.
Yeah, it will be really interesting to see how things play out. I think that is a great point about the slower formats helping with mana screw, and is probably part of the puzzle for why those formats are viewed so positively.
bumbeh's draft of The Penny Pincer Cube on 01/02/2015 from CubeTutor.com
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It felt like almost everything I drafted was worth a slot in the deck, it was hard to pick which cards actually make the cut in the final 40. Not counting the G and B things that snuck in on pick 14 and 15, obviously.
Do things wheel in this draft simulator? I was really hoping for boros charm to wheel, so I took a white instant that was less likely to wheel. Same for some other 2-color cards, they never wheeled AFAIK.
Super sexy sideboard, lots of cards I wish I could fit in the deck, maybe some stuff that's better than what I actually picked:
Auriok Salvagers
Azorius Arrester
Battlewise Hoplite
Blood Artist
Court Homunculus
Dragonscale Boon
Favored Hoplite
Flame Slash
Goblin Arsonist
Kor Skyfisher
Master Splicer
Momentary Blink
Mulldrifter
Reclamation Sage
Shelter
Threaten
Throne of Geth
Vow of Wildness
I initially thought I was drafting RU artifacts, then a really good white card came up, so I figured I was drafting RUw artifacts. Ended up a lotta good white instants so it became UWr heroic/artifacts, tempoish I guess?
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
The way I understand it, is that the cube tutor bots pick order is based on your pick order. Boros charm isn't a particularly high pick though, so I guess you just got unlucky with it not wheeling.
Thats some pool, and there are a ton of overlapping themes. The splicers can work in artifacts, blink, midrange, and almost a sort of splicer tribal deck. You have the pool to push in any of those directions. You could either go with a tough U/W heroic deck, or a more midrangy, three color artifact deck. Tough choice.
I am pretty sure though that mulldrifter wants in that deck.
Thats some pool, and there are a ton of overlapping themes. The splicers can work in artifacts, blink, midrange, and almost a sort of splicer tribal deck. You have the pool to push in any of those directions. You could either go with a tough U/W heroic deck, or a more midrangy, three color artifact deck. Tough choice.
I am pretty sure though that mulldrifter wants in that deck.
Yeah, mulldrifter was a tough call. I feel like heroics/anti-removal instants pushes towards tempo that can play most or all of its spells with only 4 lands on the board. But the best, biggest Artifact stuff (which originally pulled me into White for the Splicer) likes its 4 and 5 drops. Being 5-drop friendly means mulldrifter for sure! And tbh I probably undervalue Evoke-ing evoke creatures. I love that they provide the option, but I never like to take that option at the table, instead strongly preferring to hold out and try to get max value from the card.
The deck would be purer if Heroic was mostly cut, and self-bounce was allowed in. I left self-bounce in the sideboard due to anti-combo with Heroic, but that might be a mistake. Especially because wee dragonauts love flashback so much.
As stated in another thread, I do almost all of my play in a "one free mulligan" environment, so my deck might be too janky. I'd love to hear advice on the subject.
Wheeling: come to think of it, Barbed Sextant DID wheel and I was super duper happy about that.
The deck would be purer if Heroic was mostly cut, and self-bounce was allowed in. I left self-bounce in the sideboard due to anti-combo with Heroic, but that might be a mistake. Especially because wee dragonauts love flashback so much.
As stated in another thread, I do almost all of my play in a "one free mulligan" environment, so my deck might be too janky. I'd love to hear advice on the subject.
Wheeling: come to think of it, Barbed Sextant DID wheel and I was super duper happy about that.
Incidentally, I rather like both of your cubes. I might put in a buy order on a bunch of the cheapest cards you're using that I don't have yet.
Do you know any way to buy - or check the price of - large amounts of cards at once on TCGplayer? I always do it one card at a time and ugh.
Do you know any way to buy - or check the price of - large amounts of cards at once on TCGplayer? I always do it one card at a time and ugh.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Yeah, when I placed my order it was 1 card at a time.
It was miserable lol
It was miserable lol
Oh dang. Well whaddaya know?!
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
...it even looks for super saving shipper sellers 
I have no idea if that deck would be janky or not, at least not until I get an idea of whats competitive in the format. The dragonauts might be underperformers, mnemonic wall might be too defensive in an otherwise aggressive midrange shell deck. Battlewise hoplite is hard to evaluate, since its an early use for mana that can grow into a midrange threat. Skyguard seems a little too aggro focused?
Besides the slimmed down heroic package (which is maybe a little tricky to build, because of that court homunculus and the dragonauts) you could run a more midrange splicer package with mulldrifter, master splicer, salvagers, skyfisher, and flame slash. Maybe two battlewise hoplites if you have room and enough targeted effects. I really like hoplite because of the scry, and it might even be worth it to run shelter over apostle's blessing so you can scry->draw a card. Having access to trinket mage->sextant, and being able to recur it with salvagers might be important.
The heroic deck looks much harder to build, but might be better.
I have no idea if that deck would be janky or not, at least not until I get an idea of whats competitive in the format. The dragonauts might be underperformers, mnemonic wall might be too defensive in an otherwise aggressive midrange shell deck. Battlewise hoplite is hard to evaluate, since its an early use for mana that can grow into a midrange threat. Skyguard seems a little too aggro focused?
Besides the slimmed down heroic package (which is maybe a little tricky to build, because of that court homunculus and the dragonauts) you could run a more midrange splicer package with mulldrifter, master splicer, salvagers, skyfisher, and flame slash. Maybe two battlewise hoplites if you have room and enough targeted effects. I really like hoplite because of the scry, and it might even be worth it to run shelter over apostle's blessing so you can scry->draw a card. Having access to trinket mage->sextant, and being able to recur it with salvagers might be important.
The heroic deck looks much harder to build, but might be better.
Thanks to the development of this cube I fell in love with Auriok Salvagers
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
So, first draft tonight! Went really well. I had us take the cube through the paces, doing a mixture of single player, multi-player, and even planechase (one guy bought the cards so I felt kind of priced into doing it).
The format felt like it was in a comfortable spot as far as speed was concerned. A lot of the decks want to spend the first few turns messing around with ponders, abundant growths, bouncelands or eggs, but this does leave those decks vulnerable to aggressive strategies that can exploit that tempo loss. It feels fair though, this is more of a turn 2 aggro format than a turn 1 format, so a control or midrange player is only going to fall heavily behind if they opt for a non-interactive strategy and take too long getting their house in order.
The large number of cantrips, mana sinks, and color fixers all did their job of making sure that we had real games.
A few things took me by surprise:
For one thing, the draft itself was very decision intensive, and I found myself really paying attention to signals, which I rarely find is necessary in cube formats. While this format dosen't have resource scarcity in the sense of struggling to 23 playables, it has scaracity in other ways. The big one for me (and a few other drafters) was access to artifacts to turn on metal craft or enable other artifact sensative creatures (covetous dragon). Some of the splits in fixing approaches also can drive the draft and the deck you ultimately end up building down very different lines, that may not sync well with your picks if you ignore signals.
Their is a pick order, but the pick order breaks along strategic lines.
Also, the availability of colorless cantriping, in the form of eggs, and access to creature saving combat tricks in green and white, adds so much. You can build a non-blue deck, and still have access to cards that can effectively act as situational counterspells or removal, and still get to go through much of your deck. It really felt like it evened the playing field in that regard.
Most importantly, the combat tricks add a huge amount of decision density to the game. Both in terms of the combat trick player having to decide when to leave mana up at the possible expense of developing the board, but also forcing the answer player to actually have to play around de facto counters on their removal. When the green player gets to be the permission guy too, its pretty interesting.
With my unfair knowledge of the format, I drafted the most coherent deck, which is below:
This was really an interesting deck to both draft and build. I had a few difficult choices during the draft, basically going down a more artifact focused route to enable metalcraft, or this enchantment/hexproof route. I realized I was being cut on important artifact cards, and avoided making a worse deck. I also had a chance to go into a more wide aggro deck, but again, noticed I was being cut on token makers and stayed out.
The G/W aura's deck, in particular, is one that focuses on a few high quality threats, so its a real choice having to choose between maxing out the potential of the wide aggro cards (with a potentially higher upside) or going with the more consistent aura approach. Again, reading the packs is really important.
The stars/spheres, and abundent growths were amazing, and went a long way to making sure the deck stayed consistent. They were also very skill testing: I had to make some challenging plays with the spheres/stars, speculatively cracking them, figuring out what my best draws were, and picking the color mana that would coincide with it.
Also, note the low curve, and the way the outlast guys help make sure the deck is active in the late game.
The deck itself revolves around exploiting auras, temp. hexproof/protection effects, and + + counters. It was pretty sweet. A lot of the cards have ways to gain + + counters, which naturally works great with the outlast crew. Champion allows you to setup for one explosive turn. Vines, feat, and god's willing do everything else.
Quirion Ranger and Vines of vastwood were mvps. Ranger helps you get out of mana screw jams, baits players into tapped creature + combat trick ambushes (took out a reanimated ulamog's crusher doing this), and is a real thing with the outlast guys.
As if vines isn't amazing enough both as a temporary hexproof provider, and massive pump spell, what pushes it over the edge is its ability to target the opponent's creatures, and make their own spells/abilities unable to target them. This came up one game, where I had to use it to prevent a piston sledge trigger from resolving; my little green stifle saved the day.
Both Lumberknot and sigil of the nayan gods were also amazing, both which kind of surprised me. A true no win situation for the opponent, however, is sigil of the nayan gods enchanting the lumberknot.
The format felt like it was in a comfortable spot as far as speed was concerned. A lot of the decks want to spend the first few turns messing around with ponders, abundant growths, bouncelands or eggs, but this does leave those decks vulnerable to aggressive strategies that can exploit that tempo loss. It feels fair though, this is more of a turn 2 aggro format than a turn 1 format, so a control or midrange player is only going to fall heavily behind if they opt for a non-interactive strategy and take too long getting their house in order.
The large number of cantrips, mana sinks, and color fixers all did their job of making sure that we had real games.
A few things took me by surprise:
For one thing, the draft itself was very decision intensive, and I found myself really paying attention to signals, which I rarely find is necessary in cube formats. While this format dosen't have resource scarcity in the sense of struggling to 23 playables, it has scaracity in other ways. The big one for me (and a few other drafters) was access to artifacts to turn on metal craft or enable other artifact sensative creatures (covetous dragon). Some of the splits in fixing approaches also can drive the draft and the deck you ultimately end up building down very different lines, that may not sync well with your picks if you ignore signals.
Their is a pick order, but the pick order breaks along strategic lines.
Also, the availability of colorless cantriping, in the form of eggs, and access to creature saving combat tricks in green and white, adds so much. You can build a non-blue deck, and still have access to cards that can effectively act as situational counterspells or removal, and still get to go through much of your deck. It really felt like it evened the playing field in that regard.
Most importantly, the combat tricks add a huge amount of decision density to the game. Both in terms of the combat trick player having to decide when to leave mana up at the possible expense of developing the board, but also forcing the answer player to actually have to play around de facto counters on their removal. When the green player gets to be the permission guy too, its pretty interesting.
With my unfair knowledge of the format, I drafted the most coherent deck, which is below:
G/W/r Hexproof Auras
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This was really an interesting deck to both draft and build. I had a few difficult choices during the draft, basically going down a more artifact focused route to enable metalcraft, or this enchantment/hexproof route. I realized I was being cut on important artifact cards, and avoided making a worse deck. I also had a chance to go into a more wide aggro deck, but again, noticed I was being cut on token makers and stayed out.
The G/W aura's deck, in particular, is one that focuses on a few high quality threats, so its a real choice having to choose between maxing out the potential of the wide aggro cards (with a potentially higher upside) or going with the more consistent aura approach. Again, reading the packs is really important.
The stars/spheres, and abundent growths were amazing, and went a long way to making sure the deck stayed consistent. They were also very skill testing: I had to make some challenging plays with the spheres/stars, speculatively cracking them, figuring out what my best draws were, and picking the color mana that would coincide with it.
Also, note the low curve, and the way the outlast guys help make sure the deck is active in the late game.
The deck itself revolves around exploiting auras, temp. hexproof/protection effects, and + + counters. It was pretty sweet. A lot of the cards have ways to gain + + counters, which naturally works great with the outlast crew. Champion allows you to setup for one explosive turn. Vines, feat, and god's willing do everything else.
Quirion Ranger and Vines of vastwood were mvps. Ranger helps you get out of mana screw jams, baits players into tapped creature + combat trick ambushes (took out a reanimated ulamog's crusher doing this), and is a real thing with the outlast guys.
As if vines isn't amazing enough both as a temporary hexproof provider, and massive pump spell, what pushes it over the edge is its ability to target the opponent's creatures, and make their own spells/abilities unable to target them. This came up one game, where I had to use it to prevent a piston sledge trigger from resolving; my little green stifle saved the day.
Both Lumberknot and sigil of the nayan gods were also amazing, both which kind of surprised me. A true no win situation for the opponent, however, is sigil of the nayan gods enchanting the lumberknot.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
So, after tonights draft, I'm going to cut see the unwritten for power reasons. I had originally wanted it as a build around combo piece, but you can just play it for value and its feels very bomby. Not sure what I want to replace it with.
Anyways, this was the deck of the night, and it was pretty sick:
I've been trying to have "blink decks" in cube since my first one, and this is the first time i've seen a deck that really lived up to the hype. The bouncelands provide the little bit of equal opportunity ramp needed to make maul splicer a reality. Its really weird to see this sort of incidental "Golem tribal", but the results were really strong. Each individual splicer works as a "golem lord" and brings the tribe with him in a can.
The deck could just take over the game eventually by building up enough mana to blink a small army of (flying +1 +1, trampling?) golem's into existance. With ghostly flicker and either Archaeomancer or Mnemonic Wall it could loop blinks until running out of mana; using it either to create the golem hoard, or eventually bouncing much of the opponent's board with riftwing cloudskate.
The gameplay was very interactive.
1. Blink effects served as counters for removal
2. Blink effects worked as combat tricks to create surprise blockers as well as working defensively to fog attacks.
There were also some surprisingly complex stacks for this deck, based around combat tricks, which made me happy to see. My favorite was a juggernaut attacking into a blocking bond-kin. Feat of resistance on the bond-kin to give it +1 +1 and first strike, which was responded to by flashing in a briarhorn to buff the juggernaut, and the blink player closed out the stack with apostle's blessing to save the bond-kin. Good times.
Really enjoying both the bouncelands and the combat tricks, especially the protection ones in white.
Anyways, this was the deck of the night, and it was pretty sick:
U/W/g Splicer Blink
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I've been trying to have "blink decks" in cube since my first one, and this is the first time i've seen a deck that really lived up to the hype. The bouncelands provide the little bit of equal opportunity ramp needed to make maul splicer a reality. Its really weird to see this sort of incidental "Golem tribal", but the results were really strong. Each individual splicer works as a "golem lord" and brings the tribe with him in a can.
The deck could just take over the game eventually by building up enough mana to blink a small army of (flying +1 +1, trampling?) golem's into existance. With ghostly flicker and either Archaeomancer or Mnemonic Wall it could loop blinks until running out of mana; using it either to create the golem hoard, or eventually bouncing much of the opponent's board with riftwing cloudskate.
The gameplay was very interactive.
1. Blink effects served as counters for removal
2. Blink effects worked as combat tricks to create surprise blockers as well as working defensively to fog attacks.
There were also some surprisingly complex stacks for this deck, based around combat tricks, which made me happy to see. My favorite was a juggernaut attacking into a blocking bond-kin. Feat of resistance on the bond-kin to give it +1 +1 and first strike, which was responded to by flashing in a briarhorn to buff the juggernaut, and the blink player closed out the stack with apostle's blessing to save the bond-kin. Good times.
Really enjoying both the bouncelands and the combat tricks, especially the protection ones in white.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
We had a few sweet ones last night, not really sure where to begin, but this deck was awesome.
There were a few imperfections due to the way the draft went, and he would have been better served with at least one more egg, but the core of the decks power was the metal craft-splicer synergy with jor kadeen and token makers. It could play a slower more incrimental game, building up its board, before crushing you down with a marching army of 4/4 to 6/6 flying/regenerating golems.
It also could switch gears and go wide with explosive plays revolving around shrine of loyal legions, master's call, jor kadeen, and rally.
The most impressive thing about it was how well everything weaved together. It was almost impossible to keep him off of metalcraft due to the myr and golem tokens, and the decks ability to change its strategic axis from either incrimentally growing a crushing hoard presence to launching an explosive rush, made for some exciting and tense games.
The bouncelands are really interesting. Here, you can see that they still arn't being taken very highly, but they really warp deck construction in interesting ways. He really could have ran 15 lands here, I think. Sejiri Steppe, also, really good with them. They were also the real chink in his armor, as the several turns of setup was material.
He wasn't the winning deck though, due to some amazing plays by a well piloted though mediocre Grixis control deck. The Grixis pilot was able to actually cycle resounding wave on two golem tokens to engineer a crazy blow out in game one. First, yes he was splashing white just to cycle resounding wave, and second, when I put two copies of that card in the cube (at suicufnoc's suggestion) I thought he was crazy and they would never be cycled. Well, I was clearly wrong lol.
In another game, he was able to very skillfully engineer another series of blow outs using blind with anger and grab the reins defensively. Those threatens hit anything at instant speed, and he used it one turn to grab a wing splicer, throw the splicer beneath the boots of an attacking golem, knocking the army out of the air. The following turn he ran the play back, but grabbed a master splicer, taking away the +1 +1 golem bonus, tossing the splicer beneth another golem, and than setup a bunch of favorable blocks for the blow out.
However, I had the best deck of the night, going undefeated.
Some imperfections, as I audiabled into this deck, and had some competition. Marsh flitter was fine due to synergy, and blood artist was fine due to raw power level. I think either of those cards could justify running the wellspring to enable the splash. Maw of the Obzedat was a bit out of this decks range though, but I really had nothing better to run. I would have liked at least 1-2 more targeting effects to trigger heroic.
Goblin bombardment, goblin sharpshooter, marsh flitter, and blood artist all provided various forms of reach or board control.
The real muscle of the deck came from fabled hero and the (double!) goblin bushwhackers. A draw with fabled hero + shelter or gods willing can be very difficult to beat, and is capable of easy one shot punches in conjunction with reckless charge.
Goblin bushwhacker means you are never truly out of the game, and I was able to pick my spots a few times to come across for huge chunks of damage (15-17). Its also really funny how their play changes when they know you are running bushwhacker. You can be holding stone blanks but they will hold off in fear of the crack back.
Anyways, really fun night, but no combo decks yet!
4 Color Splicer Metalcraft
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There were a few imperfections due to the way the draft went, and he would have been better served with at least one more egg, but the core of the decks power was the metal craft-splicer synergy with jor kadeen and token makers. It could play a slower more incrimental game, building up its board, before crushing you down with a marching army of 4/4 to 6/6 flying/regenerating golems.
It also could switch gears and go wide with explosive plays revolving around shrine of loyal legions, master's call, jor kadeen, and rally.
The most impressive thing about it was how well everything weaved together. It was almost impossible to keep him off of metalcraft due to the myr and golem tokens, and the decks ability to change its strategic axis from either incrimentally growing a crushing hoard presence to launching an explosive rush, made for some exciting and tense games.
The bouncelands are really interesting. Here, you can see that they still arn't being taken very highly, but they really warp deck construction in interesting ways. He really could have ran 15 lands here, I think. Sejiri Steppe, also, really good with them. They were also the real chink in his armor, as the several turns of setup was material.
He wasn't the winning deck though, due to some amazing plays by a well piloted though mediocre Grixis control deck. The Grixis pilot was able to actually cycle resounding wave on two golem tokens to engineer a crazy blow out in game one. First, yes he was splashing white just to cycle resounding wave, and second, when I put two copies of that card in the cube (at suicufnoc's suggestion) I thought he was crazy and they would never be cycled. Well, I was clearly wrong lol.
In another game, he was able to very skillfully engineer another series of blow outs using blind with anger and grab the reins defensively. Those threatens hit anything at instant speed, and he used it one turn to grab a wing splicer, throw the splicer beneath the boots of an attacking golem, knocking the army out of the air. The following turn he ran the play back, but grabbed a master splicer, taking away the +1 +1 golem bonus, tossing the splicer beneth another golem, and than setup a bunch of favorable blocks for the blow out.
However, I had the best deck of the night, going undefeated.
R/W Heroic Goblins
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Some imperfections, as I audiabled into this deck, and had some competition. Marsh flitter was fine due to synergy, and blood artist was fine due to raw power level. I think either of those cards could justify running the wellspring to enable the splash. Maw of the Obzedat was a bit out of this decks range though, but I really had nothing better to run. I would have liked at least 1-2 more targeting effects to trigger heroic.
Goblin bombardment, goblin sharpshooter, marsh flitter, and blood artist all provided various forms of reach or board control.
The real muscle of the deck came from fabled hero and the (double!) goblin bushwhackers. A draw with fabled hero + shelter or gods willing can be very difficult to beat, and is capable of easy one shot punches in conjunction with reckless charge.
Goblin bushwhacker means you are never truly out of the game, and I was able to pick my spots a few times to come across for huge chunks of damage (15-17). Its also really funny how their play changes when they know you are running bushwhacker. You can be holding stone blanks but they will hold off in fear of the crack back.
Anyways, really fun night, but no combo decks yet!
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Man, I wish grab the reins untapped whatever it stole, it'd be in my cube in an instant if it did
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Yeah, its a fun card. I wish there were some similar 3 mana versions of well: instant speed, target any creature. Its a really interesting effect in red.
I think I'm going to have to keep an eye on fabled hero. I think its pretty close to being overpowered, but not quite there, and positioning for a one shot kill with it is pretty fun.
I forgot to mention I opted to run a wolfbitten captive in place of the see the unwritten. My short list for that slot was either captive or nettle sentinel. I really like both cards, but I wanted to try out a transform card, since having one at such low CC seems interesting in conjunction with the bouncelands. I also really like the fact that its another mana sink. It might be better though, ultimately, to run sentinel since its a more varied effect.
I have a pretty long list of potential cards I could playtest. I feel pretty strongly that temur battle rage deserves a slot in red, due to how well it works with kiln fiend and cyclops. Raid bombardment feels less necessary, but I think it would still be a really fun card. Valorous stance, reckless waif, and krosan tusker also all seem interesting.
I think dragonscale boon is probably a little bit too expensive, boros charm I think is a bit too much in the wrong colors. Basically, I need to run at least a couple double striker effects in red to make the UR based spells deck more feasible. Probably battle rage and assault strobe.
I think I'm going to have to keep an eye on fabled hero. I think its pretty close to being overpowered, but not quite there, and positioning for a one shot kill with it is pretty fun.
I forgot to mention I opted to run a wolfbitten captive in place of the see the unwritten. My short list for that slot was either captive or nettle sentinel. I really like both cards, but I wanted to try out a transform card, since having one at such low CC seems interesting in conjunction with the bouncelands. I also really like the fact that its another mana sink. It might be better though, ultimately, to run sentinel since its a more varied effect.
I have a pretty long list of potential cards I could playtest. I feel pretty strongly that temur battle rage deserves a slot in red, due to how well it works with kiln fiend and cyclops. Raid bombardment feels less necessary, but I think it would still be a really fun card. Valorous stance, reckless waif, and krosan tusker also all seem interesting.
I think dragonscale boon is probably a little bit too expensive, boros charm I think is a bit too much in the wrong colors. Basically, I need to run at least a couple double striker effects in red to make the UR based spells deck more feasible. Probably battle rage and assault strobe.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Really interesting night, with one deck causing some stormy controversy.
That hard to read 3 drop spell is stand // deliver.
So, this deck was the absolute nut. I have been (cruelly) hinting to my playgroup for the past month or so about infinte combos, and than went and drafted this absolute monster of a deck.
It plays like a splinter twin deck, in the sense that it advances a fair game plan but sometimes just combos out and kills you. It works like splicer/blink deck with a cloud of faeries combo package neatly tucked inside. For those of you unfamiliar with how cloud of faeries combo works, allow me to describe my first kill tonight.
Kill 1
I have a board state of some number of lands, including a simic growth chamber and Azorius Chancery. I have in play a master splicer, sunscape familiar, and a mindshrieker. In my hand I have an archaeomancer, insidious dreams, master splicer, land and reaping the graves.
At EOT I cast insidious dreams, discarding splicer and land to stack my library with ghostly flicker and cloud of faeries. The turn before I draw cloud of faeries, I play archaeomancer. On the turn I draw cloud of faeries, the following happens:
I tap the two bouncelands, than play cloud of faeries (which costs 1 mana thanks to sunscape familiar). This untaps the two bouncelands, which I tap again I than cast the (two mana) ghostly flicker targeting archaeomancer and cloud of faeries. Triggers from both cards go on the stack, which returns ghostly flicker to my hand, and untaps the two bouncelands again. I demonstrate this infinite mana loop to my opponent, than dump all of it into mindshrieker activations targeting his library, and kill him.
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Yes, mindshrieker, as a milling piece, was my main kill condition. Not that their weren't plenty of other ways, they just were generally slower, or less resistent to hate. For example, after making infinite mana, I sometimes switched to looping archaeomancer + a splicer to create an infinte army (also works with marshflitter). Or flicker riftwing cloudskate to bounce all of their permanents.
The deck's only real weakness was its vulnerability to early pressure, due to how clunky some of its land sequences could be. That and their was an acidic slime in the draft that thought (foolishly) it was up to the task of shutting down the combo. Mindshrieker deals with both of those situations where you are cut on blue bouncelands, or need to win now due to pressure.
The deck could try to combo through some amazing hate. After having both of my blue producing bouncelands blown up by a reclaimed acidic slime, I was still able to play towards a combo kill (though I ended up finishing it with splicer beats).
My plan was to get a familiar, archaeomancer, and cloud of faeries in play (reducing ghostly flicker to). Than just loop cloud of faeries/archeomancer with ghostly flicker, untapping my one remaining bounceland (the basilica) and an island for a profit of everytime. Than I just had to reaping the graves my mindshrieker to my hand, cast it, and dump all of that colerless mana into it to mill my opponent out.
Phyrexian rager also made a great draw engine/value chump blocker, and saved the day where I screwed up, realized I didn't have another turn to splicer kill and needed to go for the mill kill now. So, after an archaeomancer/ghostly flicker/insidious dreams sequence, I put mindshrieker TOL, flickered the rager to draw it, and saved christmas (or ruined it if you were any of my opponents).
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Now, all of that being said, the deck was way too good, and not particularly fun to play against, so I have some cuts I am going to be making.
Basically, even a creature based combo deck like this, with a lot of moving pieces, left them feeling stressed in the games.
You can't really disrupt this deck effectively because of all of the resilent tools it has against spot removal and how few resources it needs to go off. In addition, even if you shut off that one strategic axis, it can very easily switch to a powerful splicer based axis, and just work as a midrange value deck. The only really effective way to fight it was to kill it: very difficult to do when golem tokens are clogging up the ground. The best strategy would be to go for lower to the ground hyper aggro, and I don't think its healthy to encourage non-interactive aggro as a solution to a non-interactive combo.
In short, it just crushed all of its opposition, and it wasn't even close. Once it got to the midgame, the deck simply became favored to win, and I can't imagine another deck in the format being that powerful.
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So with that established, I want to take away some of the tools. Grapeshot just has no place in the cube, as it is a terrible win condition even within the one deck that would be really interested in it. I think I am going to give that slot to one temur battle rage or an assault strobe (this helps the spell's matters deck, but I don't want more than 2 total double strike buffs, as this is another non-interactive combo deck). I also want to cut a goblin bombardment for a raid bombardment. Raid bombardment seems like it will fit in really well in the red or white based token strategies, and be a fun addition to those decks.
I also plan on cutting one master splicer, as that deck has already established itself as one of the best midrange archetypes in the cube, and comes together a bit too easily. Not sure what to replace it with, but I have been thinking of cutting god's willing for stave off. This is because stave off can target any creature, which gives it some useful utility as a counterspell or stifle in certain situations.
We will be going down on some number of cloud of faeries or ghostly flicker. Probably going to 1 ghostly flicker and 2 cloud of faeries.
The moral of the story though, is to say no (generally) to combo. This is about as benign an environment for a workable combo deck as you can get: multiple pieces (you need about 5ish cards), creature based, non-poisonous, and complex. Its still not worth it though, if its stressful to play against.
Esper Splicer Storm
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That hard to read 3 drop spell is stand // deliver.
So, this deck was the absolute nut. I have been (cruelly) hinting to my playgroup for the past month or so about infinte combos, and than went and drafted this absolute monster of a deck.
It plays like a splinter twin deck, in the sense that it advances a fair game plan but sometimes just combos out and kills you. It works like splicer/blink deck with a cloud of faeries combo package neatly tucked inside. For those of you unfamiliar with how cloud of faeries combo works, allow me to describe my first kill tonight.
Kill 1
I have a board state of some number of lands, including a simic growth chamber and Azorius Chancery. I have in play a master splicer, sunscape familiar, and a mindshrieker. In my hand I have an archaeomancer, insidious dreams, master splicer, land and reaping the graves.
At EOT I cast insidious dreams, discarding splicer and land to stack my library with ghostly flicker and cloud of faeries. The turn before I draw cloud of faeries, I play archaeomancer. On the turn I draw cloud of faeries, the following happens:
I tap the two bouncelands, than play cloud of faeries (which costs 1 mana thanks to sunscape familiar). This untaps the two bouncelands, which I tap again I than cast the (two mana) ghostly flicker targeting archaeomancer and cloud of faeries. Triggers from both cards go on the stack, which returns ghostly flicker to my hand, and untaps the two bouncelands again. I demonstrate this infinite mana loop to my opponent, than dump all of it into mindshrieker activations targeting his library, and kill him.
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Yes, mindshrieker, as a milling piece, was my main kill condition. Not that their weren't plenty of other ways, they just were generally slower, or less resistent to hate. For example, after making infinite mana, I sometimes switched to looping archaeomancer + a splicer to create an infinte army (also works with marshflitter). Or flicker riftwing cloudskate to bounce all of their permanents.
The deck's only real weakness was its vulnerability to early pressure, due to how clunky some of its land sequences could be. That and their was an acidic slime in the draft that thought (foolishly) it was up to the task of shutting down the combo. Mindshrieker deals with both of those situations where you are cut on blue bouncelands, or need to win now due to pressure.
The deck could try to combo through some amazing hate. After having both of my blue producing bouncelands blown up by a reclaimed acidic slime, I was still able to play towards a combo kill (though I ended up finishing it with splicer beats).
My plan was to get a familiar, archaeomancer, and cloud of faeries in play (reducing ghostly flicker to
). Than just loop cloud of faeries/archeomancer with ghostly flicker, untapping my one remaining bounceland (the basilica) and an island for a profit of everytime. Than I just had to reaping the graves my mindshrieker to my hand, cast it, and dump all of that colerless mana into it to mill my opponent out.Phyrexian rager also made a great draw engine/value chump blocker, and saved the day where I screwed up, realized I didn't have another turn to splicer kill and needed to go for the mill kill now. So, after an archaeomancer/ghostly flicker/insidious dreams sequence, I put mindshrieker TOL, flickered the rager to draw it, and saved christmas (or ruined it if you were any of my opponents).
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Now, all of that being said, the deck was way too good, and not particularly fun to play against, so I have some cuts I am going to be making.
Basically, even a creature based combo deck like this, with a lot of moving pieces, left them feeling stressed in the games.
You can't really disrupt this deck effectively because of all of the resilent tools it has against spot removal and how few resources it needs to go off. In addition, even if you shut off that one strategic axis, it can very easily switch to a powerful splicer based axis, and just work as a midrange value deck. The only really effective way to fight it was to kill it: very difficult to do when golem tokens are clogging up the ground. The best strategy would be to go for lower to the ground hyper aggro, and I don't think its healthy to encourage non-interactive aggro as a solution to a non-interactive combo.
In short, it just crushed all of its opposition, and it wasn't even close. Once it got to the midgame, the deck simply became favored to win, and I can't imagine another deck in the format being that powerful.
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So with that established, I want to take away some of the tools. Grapeshot just has no place in the cube, as it is a terrible win condition even within the one deck that would be really interested in it. I think I am going to give that slot to one temur battle rage or an assault strobe (this helps the spell's matters deck, but I don't want more than 2 total double strike buffs, as this is another non-interactive combo deck). I also want to cut a goblin bombardment for a raid bombardment. Raid bombardment seems like it will fit in really well in the red or white based token strategies, and be a fun addition to those decks.
I also plan on cutting one master splicer, as that deck has already established itself as one of the best midrange archetypes in the cube, and comes together a bit too easily. Not sure what to replace it with, but I have been thinking of cutting god's willing for stave off. This is because stave off can target any creature, which gives it some useful utility as a counterspell or stifle in certain situations.
We will be going down on some number of cloud of faeries or ghostly flicker. Probably going to 1 ghostly flicker and 2 cloud of faeries.
The moral of the story though, is to say no (generally) to combo. This is about as benign an environment for a workable combo deck as you can get: multiple pieces (you need about 5ish cards), creature based, non-poisonous, and complex. Its still not worth it though, if its stressful to play against.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Here are the changes I am looking at
Out
In
On the sideline
Eventually, I want to add in the scry lands, and grenzo should be neat with them.
Out
In
On the sideline
Eventually, I want to add in the scry lands, and grenzo should be neat with them.
You gotta draft into a deck that you know will be bad for your poor drafters so they can feel like they're getting the hang of the environment.
Be wary of Grenzo; having played with and against him in Vintage Masters, I can attest to his power level being fairly high. Without much removal, he will overtake most games against non-token. non-evasive attackers in a matter of untap steps.
Are there any strategies that seem to be vastly underdrafted/underperforming?
How have the KTK gainlands affected the aggro decks? Double bounce lands coupled with them seems like a lot of incidental lifegain, although both heroic and tokens are much more heavy-hitting aggro decks (and I doubt they care too much about 2-5 points of life).
Any desire to add some cards to punish bounce lands?
Or add cards that synergize with them beyond making more mana?
Are there any strategies that seem to be vastly underdrafted/underperforming?
How have the KTK gainlands affected the aggro decks? Double bounce lands coupled with them seems like a lot of incidental lifegain, although both heroic and tokens are much more heavy-hitting aggro decks (and I doubt they care too much about 2-5 points of life).
Any desire to add some cards to punish bounce lands?
Or add cards that synergize with them beyond making more mana?
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Thanks guys. I will try Tymaret in that slot instead.
They've been slowly getting the hang of the environment. Their are still a lot of really poor evaulations going on, which is hurting them. For example, rancor has wheeled the last couple of weeks, which just should never happen. I've also seen vines of vastwood, evolving wilds, and terramorphic expanse wheel, which I do not understand. Their was no reason for me to somehow get both ponder and preordain last week.
My guys are also pretty casual, so the idea of their being contours set in the draft by different mana fixing options is a real challenge to them, and requires a level of draft strategy they are not used to.
Though oddly enough, my hardcore Timmy player has been adjusting the best. His attraction to ramp means that he is picking bouncelands very highly (much higher than everyone else) and bouncelands naturally address a lot of the in-built variance issues that tear apart most of his decks. That 4 color metal craft splicer deck, for example, was his creation, and is the best deck he's ever drafted.
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As for strategies that have been vastly over performing (leaving out the obvious familiar combo deck), that would be the splicers easily. I never imagined they would be this important to the meta. They are the pillar holding up the entire artifact wing of the cube, something I had originally thought would be performed by the spheres/stars. Week 2, the best deck was a splicer deck, week 3 another splicer deck (it was the best designed deck, his technical piloting just wasn't there), week 4 a combo deck...running splicers.
The interaction between blink effects/reanimating effects creates a powerful attrition based strategy that punishes you for interacting with the splicers. Its like fighting quicksand, and though beatable, you have to be very careful in how you pick your spots, and not everyone over here has the level of technical play to do that consistantly.
And of course, when you have a midrange deck that good in the meta, absolutly everything that interacts with artifacts suddenly becomes much better. I cut one master splicer as I still really want splicers to be a major part of the meta, but haven't yet settled on the final package I want. Right now I am trying the more expensive sensor splicer, though may end up shifting ultimately to a second vital splicer.
Underperforming decks is a bit more difficult to parse, since we've only done four drafts, but I expect the decks to be major underperformers, as those are essentially worse midrange plans than the splicer decks. I think has a strong control game, but self mill I expect to be too clunky. Gurmag Angler might be a good addition to boost both golgari and self-mill. The spells matter deck also hasn't really come together, though the tools weren't really there before, and hopefully that changes with temur battle rage. I'm not sure offers the raw power to tempt someone into it, and was thinking that hit // run might do the trick.
We haven't had an untap effect based ramp deck come together yet, and I suspect thats because of the cc on the land untappers. Not sure if thats a material issue or not though.
So far my bounceland punishment tools are the acidic slime and the blue bounce spells. They've been pretty good, but it might not be a bad idea to add a few more, and in some different colors. I like the cantrips and the kicker cards (mana sinks). I just don't want to scare people away from playing bouncelands.
You are correct about the aggro decks, they deal damage in such large chunks that incremental life gain dosen't bother them.
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You know, I really had not given much thought to other cards that synergize with bouncelands, but I realized this weekend how amazing they are with insidious dreams. Cards like Psychatog and sickening dreams look like they could be a lot of fun, and Cultivator looks like value city.
Edit: I forgot I took out a second ghostly flicker and put a repeal there. Cheap cantrip, and repeal is just good value. No deeper reasoning than that.
They've been slowly getting the hang of the environment. Their are still a lot of really poor evaulations going on, which is hurting them. For example, rancor has wheeled the last couple of weeks, which just should never happen. I've also seen vines of vastwood, evolving wilds, and terramorphic expanse wheel, which I do not understand. Their was no reason for me to somehow get both ponder and preordain last week.
My guys are also pretty casual, so the idea of their being contours set in the draft by different mana fixing options is a real challenge to them, and requires a level of draft strategy they are not used to.
Though oddly enough, my hardcore Timmy player has been adjusting the best. His attraction to ramp means that he is picking bouncelands very highly (much higher than everyone else) and bouncelands naturally address a lot of the in-built variance issues that tear apart most of his decks. That 4 color metal craft splicer deck, for example, was his creation, and is the best deck he's ever drafted.
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As for strategies that have been vastly over performing (leaving out the obvious familiar combo deck), that would be the splicers easily. I never imagined they would be this important to the meta. They are the pillar holding up the entire artifact wing of the cube, something I had originally thought would be performed by the spheres/stars. Week 2, the best deck was a splicer deck, week 3 another splicer deck (it was the best designed deck, his technical piloting just wasn't there), week 4 a combo deck...running splicers.
The interaction between blink effects/reanimating effects creates a powerful attrition based strategy that punishes you for interacting with the splicers. Its like fighting quicksand, and though beatable, you have to be very careful in how you pick your spots, and not everyone over here has the level of technical play to do that consistantly.
And of course, when you have a midrange deck that good in the meta, absolutly everything that interacts with artifacts suddenly becomes much better. I cut one master splicer as I still really want splicers to be a major part of the meta, but haven't yet settled on the final package I want. Right now I am trying the more expensive sensor splicer, though may end up shifting ultimately to a second vital splicer.
Underperforming decks is a bit more difficult to parse, since we've only done four drafts, but I expect the
decks to be major underperformers, as those are essentially worse midrange plans than the splicer decks. I think has a strong control game, but self mill I expect to be too clunky. Gurmag Angler might be a good addition to boost both golgari and self-mill. The spells matter deck also hasn't really come together, though the tools weren't really there before, and hopefully that changes with temur battle rage. I'm not sure offers the raw power to tempt someone into it, and was thinking that hit // run might do the trick.We haven't had an untap effect based ramp deck come together yet, and I suspect thats because of the cc on the land untappers. Not sure if thats a material issue or not though.
So far my bounceland punishment tools are the acidic slime and the blue bounce spells. They've been pretty good, but it might not be a bad idea to add a few more, and in some different colors. I like the cantrips and the kicker cards (mana sinks). I just don't want to scare people away from playing bouncelands.
You are correct about the aggro decks, they deal damage in such large chunks that incremental life gain dosen't bother them.
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You know, I really had not given much thought to other cards that synergize with bouncelands, but I realized this weekend how amazing they are with insidious dreams. Cards like Psychatog and sickening dreams look like they could be a lot of fun, and Cultivator looks like value city.
Edit: I forgot I took out a second ghostly flicker and put a repeal there. Cheap cantrip, and repeal is just good value. No deeper reasoning than that.