LeAnn Rimes' Value Combo Cubadanza

Hi all,​

I took a crack at making my first cube a few months ago and after a few playtests I have finally figured out a list of 540 cards I am more or less ready to get constructed feedback on. I would really appreciate your thoughts/ comments on how I could balance some things or if some interactions were too cute to be worth adding. I currently would like to keep my number at 540 and I have not added some cards due their price tag (i.e. Lilliana of the Vail and Jace, Vryn’s Prodigy) but hopefully I can get them soon.
My goals:​
- 540 cards
- Unpowered
- Singleton
- Utilize 2 and 3 card synergies to provide a different play experience than a typical legacy cube.
- Creature types matter (Spirit/Goblin/Zombie themes)
- Avoid having cards that only are useful when paired with one other card. (i.e. Painter’s Servant &Grindstone, Painter’s Servant can be used in conjunction with Jaya Ballard, Task Mage or Teysa Orzhov Scion and Grindstone can be a mediocre win condition in a slow control/lock deck)

A small caveat, even though I have added a bunch of combo pieces into the cube, most of the winning decks have tended to be more mid-range well rounded decks that can interact with what their opponent is doing. The fact that only two thirds of the cube is drafted in an eight man pod has helped balance how many times you actually see a particular 2 card combo in a typical draft. So all in all, it feels a lot less degenerate than it looks.
Errata’s

At first I was trying to avoid errataing cards but with the amount of archetypes I was trying to push I figured doing some under the hood changes would allow some of my slots to be more versatile. I have decided to only change cards that the general population is less familiar so that the subtle changes would not go overlooked as most of my drafters would have to read the cards anyways.
Tallowisp – Now reads “Whenever you cast a Spirit or Arcane spell, you may search your library for an ENCHANTMENT card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. If you do, shuffle your library”
Kiri-Onna – Now costs (2)(U)
Kemuri-Onna – Now costs (1)(B) and is a 3/1
Yuki-Onna – Now costs (2)(R)
Haru-Onna – Now costs (1)(G)
Hypergenesis – Now has a casting cost of (2)(G)(G) I was too cheap to buy Eureka.
White
I wanted to avoid having white feel like a bunch of Savanah Lions and powerful control cards so instead I added a few engine cards and a strong spirit theme that could allow white to make up for the loss of speed and increase its grinding and hate bear potential .
Kami of False Hope – There are a few ways to reoccur this guy every turn and create a soft fog lock (i.e. Mimic Vat, Enduring Renewal and Angel of Flight Alabaster to name a few)
Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit – I almost fainted when I saw this card spoiled. She is a spirit and is an infinite combo with persist creatures and a sacrifice outlet. #Swoon
Tallowisp – This guy is a powerful engine for such little cost. All the spirit enchantment creatures printed in Theros block now go and find more of their kin with this guy out. Also he helps find a lot of the 1 of enchantments you need to combo off.
Rest in Peace – Graveyard hate card or combo’s off with Helm of Obedience
Enduring Renewal – This card does not have very many infinite combo’s in this cube. It however works well as a value card to make all your creatures extremely hard to deal with as well as make your sacrifice outlets + enter the battlefield triggers very potent.
Hopeful Eidolon – this is an okay combo with Tallowisp, Phantom Nantuko, and life gain is actually a hard thing to come by in my cube.
Blue
I was less adventurous with Blue. I pretty much kept to a similar legacy shell but changed some of the card choices to interact more favorably in a combo format.
Kiri-Onna – I recently was having issues with the Aluren deck. The typical Cavern Harpy Parasitic Strix seemed really bad to rely on. So I added in the Oona cycle as a way to infinitely cast your creatures/ return them with Aluren and one spirit. This also allowed me to replace Parasitic Strix with Thief of Hope which has been a much better card for other decks.
Tandem Lookout – He is mostly included in the cube as a mediocre draw engine as well as an infinite combo with Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Deadeye Navigator – I wasn’t sure if this guy was worth it at first, but every time someone has him in their deck, he over performs. He plays a similar role to Brago, King Eternal in the Blue White flicker deck.
Thopter Spy Network – I just added this cards and I have my reservations. I am trying to push a small artifacts matter subtheme and I felt this was an okay way to reward people for playing artificats. (I originally had Sword of the Meek&Thopter Foundry in the cube, but I decided these were too narrow to be worth people drafting)
Black
Black is the color that got all the Savanah Lions I tried pushing a zombie theme to make these efficient beaters have a little more reach later on in the game.
Kemuri-Onna – I recently was having issues with the Aluren deck. The typical Cavern Harpy Parasitic Strix seemed really bad to rely on. So I added in the Oona cycle as a way to infinitely cast your creatures/ return them with Aluren and one spirit. This also allowed me to replace Parasitic Strix with Thief of Hope which has been a much better card for other decks.
Reassembling Skeleton – After a few playtests I felt like black needed another dork to bring back to life. I am not sure about this slot just yet
Red
I tried to make red maintain its aggressive identity as well as give it some fun combo tools. To do this I pushed goblins as a creature type that matters, however, I am not sure if I have incentivized players enough for taking this route.
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage – Jaya is a okay card with Painter’s Servant and she gives red a little utility. I am not sure if red decks want to play her just yet but I have my hopes.
Yuki-Onna – I wanted to include the whole Onna cycle, and this one just replaces my Manic Vandal slot.
Chain of Plasma – Another okay removal spell that interacts well with Swans of Bryn Argoll
Aggravated Assault – This card has allowed Red Green decks to play unfair and create infinite mana/ infinite attack phases once they animate all their lands with either Dead/Alive or Rude Awakening. There are a few other tools and decks this card fits into but that is the main use.
Green
I wanted to steer green clear of the typical lots of mana elves into a big threat playstyle it usually has. I have a few mana creatures but not as many as you would see in a typical cube. This ended up forcing green to be more of a support color. It has a lot of value cards and combo pieces other colors want. Even though it lacks a strong identity it is one of my more drafted color people pair with their main color.
Scute Mob – This is probably one of green’s weaker cards. I was in need of an more aggressive card and I felt like Scute Mob had more upside then a card like Experiment Onein this type of cube.
Haru-Onna – I recently was having issues with the Aluren deck. The typical Cavern Harpy Parasitic Strix seemed really bad to rely on. So I added in the Oona cycle as a way to infinitely cast your creatures/ return them with Aluren and one spirit. This also allowed me to replace Parasitic Strix with Thief of Hope which has been a much better card for other decks.
Wall of Blossoms – This card may be obsolete with the addition of Haru-Onna
Phantom Nantuko – He is another recent add that needs to be tested. He is a resilient threat that is extremely annoying to deal with once you suit him up with a few of the bestow cards. I am not sure if this is something I should be promoting or if it is more or less a cute care bear trap.
Moment's Peace – There are a few ways to reoccur this card for infinite fogs. Mainly this allows control decks and combo decks to have some breathing room against the more aggressive decks.
Earthcraft & Squirrel Nest – I figured letting green be unable to play fair was okay to do. Also these cards can function without each other in play.
Pattern of Rebirth – This card just screams I wish I had a Natural order.
Multi-Colored
From what has been drafted so far these are the type of decks I have seen in the ten color combinations.
-Azorius- Flicker effects, Spirits, Control
-Dimir- Zombies, Reinimator, Artifacts, Control
-Rakdos- Goblins, Sacrifice subtheme, Aggressive
-Gruul- Aggressive curve with value cards and a strong top end.
-Selesnya- Tokens, Hate Bears, Aggressive
-Orzhov- Removal, Value Creatures, Control
-Golgari- Sacrifice and recursion, Grindy and Controlling
-Simic- Tempo and aggressive, very mid-range feeling.
-Izzet- Card advantage and creature removal, Can be either control, combo, or aggressive.
-Boros- either very aggressive, or can be a slow and grindy control deck.
Swans of Bryn Argoll – This card is a 2 card combo with Chain of Plasma as well as an annoying flying threat that doesn’t die that easily. It leads to some interesting board states.
Phyerxian Devourer – This behemoth is intended to combo off with Laboratory Maniac, Fling or Necrotic Ooze

Thanks, for reading. And again I appreciate any feedback you guys may give!
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
I'm not sure pygmy hippo works under modern magic rules. Without mana burn, you can just tap your lands and their hippo trigger does nothing, so long as you do it pre-combat.

I mean thats not worthless, but you're essentially paying for 2 color, nonflying, doesn't stop force of will Xantid Swarm
 
That is pretty much how the hippo functions in my cube, a more aggressive Xantid Swarm for the UG tempo deck. It is also semi useful in a combo setting where you want to make it so your opponent can't interact with your combo, but I could see it not being a powerful enough effect. I would probably want to replace him for something else in the Simic guild, but nothing has called out to me yet as being a great fit. Any suggestions?
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
That is pretty much how the hippo functions in my cube, a more aggressive Xantid Swarm for the UG tempo deck. It is also semi useful in a combo setting where you want to make it so your opponent can't interact with your combo, but I could see it not being a powerful enough effect. I would probably want to replace him for something else in the Simic guild, but nothing has called out to me yet as being a great fit. Any suggestions?
Yeah given it doesn't deal damage if you use it I'm on board with a switch :p

Good lord you have a lot of multicolor cards, everything I was going to suggust is already in there :p
Maybe double up on Bounding Krasis or Shardless Agent?
 
I would prefer to keep this cube singleton if I could. I think my main options are Jhessian Infiltrator or Skyrider Elf if I want to replace the hippo with something that fits in an aggressive UG tempo/evasive Edric and swords type deck. Or I could just cut that slot and replace it with Bring to Light to assist in the consistency of some decks. Do you think 10 multi colored cards of each guild is too many? Should I look to cut it down?
 
I would prefer to keep this cube singleton if I could. I think my main options are Jhessian Infiltrator or Skyrider Elf if I want to replace the hippo with something that fits in an aggressive UG tempo/evasive Edric and swords type deck. Or I could just cut that slot and replace it with Bring to Light to assist in the consistency of some decks. Do you think 10 multi colored cards of each guild is too many? Should I look to cut it down?

Ten certainly is quite a lot, but it's entirely up to you, and if playtesting proves that it works, go to town. I loooove bring to light. It can do so many cool things, as easy as tutoring for a draw spell, being a tutor for a control wincon (Ojutai? Monastery Mentor?, or even being the second living death in the Living Death.dec.
 
Hi there, welcome on board!

First of all, why don't you just proxy the more expensive cards? You are already errata'ing some of them, I can't imagine your drafters accepting that but being annoyed by having proxies.

If I were you, I think I would try to reduce the amount of combos in the Cube and only focus on some ones that have multiple pieces available and that are composed of cards that are decent by themselves. For example, I don't like the Rest in Piece + Helm combo because both pieces are useless (RIP is a good card, but it's not maindeckable for sure and even as a SB card is very narrow). Moreover, in a 540 cards list, it's possible that the other combo piece won't even be in the draft. You can't really build a deck around these combos, unless you see and draft both pieces very early, and you can't just include them in any deck that is not focused on the combo because they are dead draws. Why bother, then?

One of the best combos in this regard is the Anafenza & friends one, because you have multiple pieces available and they are all at least decent on their own. You can have Kitchen Finks, Murderous Redcap and Safehold Elite as your persister (the Elite needing some extra help in order to become relevant, but hey). The other piece can be Anafenza, Melira, Sylvok Outcast, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Juniper Order Ranger, Master Biomancer or even Ivy Lane Denizen. Pretty much all of these (except Melira) are fine cards and would be ok also in a generic creature deck, but you can reasonably build a deck around the combo and be confident that it could come together.

Besides this, I like the tribal synergies you are trying to build. The biggest trap here is using many cards that only care about a single tribe, but you can offset that by including stuff that can be good in any tribal deck. Some examples are Adaptive Automaton, Bloodline Shaman, Cover of Darkness, Door of Destinies, Obelisk of Urd, Patriarch's Bidding, Mutavault, the Changelings... You get the idea.

Hope this helps! Keep Cubing and keep posting! :)
 

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
Hello there good sir!
I feel as if I am responsible for you being here so I must contribute. From my test drafts I felt there were a couple of problems I could address here. Most of which Alphez has already said (above), but I will go over them again and in a little more detail.

1. Some combo pieces are too insular
Alphez pretty much nailed this point home but to reiterate, there are too many cards that don't do anything unless they see their combo piece. eg. (Leyline of the Void, Rest in Peace, Helm of Obedience, Guilty Conscience, etc.) The only time anyone would pick these cards higher than last pick was because they got the other piece as a previous last pick. Having these extremely narrow cards for the off-chance of a combo... Is it worth it?

2. Size is too large for combo and narrow archetypes
Alphez also touched on this. My third draft I got Kiki-Jiki and Splinter Twin but nothing to combo them with. I never saw any of the other combo pieces in the packs, which made me a little sad and frustrated that I picked these cards highly and they weren't usable in the end. I also tried to force mono red aggro, but due to 1/3 of the cube not being accessible I couldn't do it and had to go two colours. Is there a reason you have this size cube? For variety? That's fine. Just make sure that an archetype has enough support if 1/3 of the cube isn't there. It could possibly even be a trainwreck if two people are drafting the same archetypes and a large portion of it is missing. They will both be moping around after building their deck and wishing they could draft again already.

3. Power band is very wide
I went into your cube blind when I did my test drafts and saw a pile of cool combo-esque cards (Aluren, Cloudstone Curio, Enduring Renewal, Tooth and Nail). I decided to take Cloudstone Curio and see if I could do some cool things with it. The next pack I am blinded by Jace, the Mindsculptor, Elspeth, Knight Errant and Sword of Light and Shadow. Now instead of taking the average come into play creature that was in that pack I was almost forced to take one of these cards as I thought I wouldn't be able to win if these were the cards I would be versing. I don't understand why cards like Jace, Memory Adept or Sword of Body and Mind are in the cube either, as they have been known to be seriously unfun in draft being quick clocks on hard to deal with permanents.I don't know if there is a cube where Tallowisp and Jace, the Mindsculptor can exist on the same pick level, but I don't think your cube is at that point yet (if it is theoretically possible.

4. Not enough mana fixing
I'm not really one to talk about this, as my Peasant cube's fixing is also quite sparse (I will fix it soon though, I promise). I only run ~17 sources of fixing in that 360 cube (~5%). Most riptide cubes are running 50/360 fixing slots (~14%) and it makes a substantial difference in gameplay. Your cube is sitting at (excluding signets) 43/540 (~8%). Better than my cube but it still feels lacking compared to what I am used to. This is also quite an important factor considering how many gold cards you run. Having 10 golds cards per colour encourages people to go ~3 colours just so they have more options during the draft. Then it leads to poor gameplay when they can't cast those cards. Adding another cycle of lands will go a long way, trust me.

Sorry on being such a negative-nancy. I do like your cube, I had a good time drafting it, I just feel like these are the main things holding it back on being a GREAT draft environment.
 
Alphez said:
First of all, why don't you just proxy the more expensive cards? You are already errata'ing some of them, I can't imagine your drafters accepting that but being annoyed by having proxies.
I am not opposed to proxies, I just have high standards for them if I were to do them. So I would need to get them from somewhere else (I am an extremely non-crafty person). I know I can go out and buy these, I just haven't done it yet. I mostly view some of the sub-optimal choices as things I will upgrade as I keep working on the cube.
Alphez said:
If I were you, I think I would try to reduce the amount of combos in the Cube and only focus on some ones that have multiple pieces available and that are composed of cards that are decent by themselves. For example, I don't like the Rest in Piece + Helm combo because both pieces are useless (RIP is a good card, but it's not maindeckable for sure and even as a SB card is very narrow). Moreover, in a 540 cards list, it's possible that the other combo piece won't even be in the draft. You can't really build a deck around these combos, unless you see and draft both pieces very early, and you can't just include them in any deck that is not focused on the combo because they are dead draws. Why bother, then?
I wanted to make this cube feel like any drafter could get a combo if they choose to go out of the way for it, but I didn't want so many of them in the cube that everyone just got them without actually trying to find them. I completely understand what you are getting at. I may be taking/ trying to support way too many archetypes and interactions currently. It was one of my goals at the onset to not put too many cards that only have one friend in the entire 540.

As for your combo piece not even being in the draft, I actually am a fan of that Idea. It ends up feeling like a lottery and allows for two types of drafters; the people who spend $2 on a ticket and sometimes win, and other who decide to save their $2 and draft a more straight forward deck.

Some of the more pigeon holed combo's I feel are:

Rest in Piece/Leyline of the Void +Helm of Obedience
As for Rest in Piece/Leyline of the Void, I added these because I am fine with having a few cards in my cube that work as mostly sideboard cards. I like the idea for there to be checks and balances in my cube so that people have the options to interact with synergies that are more difficult to interact with. As for Helm of Obedience... I agree, It is more or less useless on its own. There are 2 cards in the entire cube that allow it to be a card people want to play, which may or may not be enough incentive to take it. From what I have seen, people who are drafting my cube tend to take this card in the middle of the pack when they don't see anything useful for them, then if they see the other pieces they pocket them and get rewarded because the other pieces go late no matter what. (Kind of like how twin works)
Painter's Servant +Grindstone
I would prefer to keep this combo in the cube. Mainly because it is one of the main combo's people expect to look for when drafting this cube. I think that Grindstone, Jaya Ballard, Task Mage, and Teysa, Orzhov Scion could be enough cards that care about painter, but I wouldn't be opposed to finding one more to give more people a reason to pick him up. I am concerned that Grindstone may be too weak to be worth running in a control deck as a mediocre win con, and I can’t see any other cards that would synergize to make this one particularly better.

Guilty Conscience +Stuffy Doll, Boros Reckoner, Swans of Bryn Argoll
This combo is another one that its components might be too weak without its pair, althought there are a few more pairs for Guilty Conscience than people are use to. At its worst, Guilty Conscience is a sad excuse for a removal spell, and Stuffy Doll is a really good blocker without Guilty Conscience, but 5 mana is probably a lot to ask out someone to pay for that effect.

Earthcraft + Squirrel Nest
I think that these cards probably could use some assistance, but there are options I could go with that wouldn't cut them. Earthcraft is an unique effect since green doesn't get as many mana elves in my cube as they usually do in a typical cube. Squirrel Nest is on its face, just a mediocre token producer. Cards like Nissa, Worldwaker, Garruk Wildspeaker, and Retreat to Coralhelm allow this card to accelerate making tokens, but that more of a bonus not a deck cornerstone. (I have been known to go down the rabbit hole a bit too often)

Necrotic Ooze + Triskelion + Phyrexian Devourer
Necrotic Ooze has some neat stuff he can in my cube, but I feel like if I want to make him more desirable card I would probably need to give a drafter a few more tools to make him worth his slot. Triskelion is one of the more narrow cards of the three. It interacts favorably with the flicker effects as well as Mikaeus, the Unhallowed but past that it is mostly a clunky removal spell. I think there are enough cards that interact with Phyrexian Devourer that makes it decent on it's own.

Retreat to Coralhelm + Knight of the Reliquary
I recently added the Retreat to Coralhelm because I thought the combo to be cute, but not back breaking tool that could push drafters into a bant deck. I also think Retreat to Coralhelm isn't that bad if you are trying to draft one of the tempo decks in the cube, but I would prefer to find another card that interacted favorably with it.

I could see taking out one or two of these more niche interactions to allow me to support the remaining ones more. Which ones do you guys think I could get rid of while maintaining a combo cube identity?

Also side comment, what are peoples thoughts on Meloku the Clouded Mirror? I know he is more of an outdated cube card at this point but would putting him in be worth it in my cube? I just added Fastbond into my cube to give green a little more raw power, and I know that Meloku works very favorably with that card.
Alphez said:
One of the best combos in this regard is the Anafenza & friends one, because you have multiple pieces available and they are all at least decent on their own. You can have Kitchen Finks, Murderous Redcap and Safehold Elite as your persister (the Elite needing some extra help in order to become relevant, but hey). The other piece can be Anafenza, Melira, Sylvok Outcast, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Juniper Order Ranger, Master Biomancer or even Ivy Lane Denizen. Pretty much all of these (except Melira) are fine cards and would be ok also in a generic creature deck, but you can reasonably build a deck around the combo and be confident that it could come together.
I like the idea of supporting these creature based combos more. I think it would give more incentive for people to go into green/white (one of the more avoided color combinations in most cubes)

Alphez said:
Besides this, I like the tribal synergies you are trying to build. The biggest trap here is using many cards that only care about a single tribe, but you can offset that by including stuff that can be good in any tribal deck. Some examples are Adaptive Automaton, Bloodline Shaman, Cover of Darkness, Door of Destinies, Obelisk of Urd, Patriarch's Bidding, Mutavault, the Changelings... You get the idea.
My first iteration of this cube I tried to stay away from using a bunch of lord effects that were only good for one tribe. After a while I noticed that people were not rewarded enough for picking up creatures that wanted to attack, so I decided that putting lords in would give people ways to race less cohesive decks. I have not been able to test these lords in action so it is mostly theory crafting at this point. I also felt like putting these in may help newer players find more straight forward strategies and show them what types of creatures they should care about in this cube.

As for the cards which care about spirit's being cast. There are actually exorbitant amounts of spirits in this cube so triggering this effect is a lot easier than one would think. You really don't have to try very hard while drafting cards to support them from the few play experiences I have had with this cube.

I like the Idea of Adaptive Automaton or Obleisk of Urd. I might try to find room for one or both of these cards

Alphez said:
Hope this helps! Keep Cubing and keep posting
It does help a lot. I am very grateful for your post. I have another cube that I intend to post here once I update it on cube tutor and feel more comfortable with where it is. That cube I wanted to have a more limited feel, and it definitely needs some balance work currently.
 

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
This is a pretty good article about supporting tribal in cube, and I feel its central premise works for combo as well (though you want to tack on disruptive tools as another element).
 
Kirblinx said:
1. Some combo pieces are too insular
2. Size is too large for combo and narrow archetypes
I talked towards these points one and two in my previous posts. I am looking into the issue of supporting too many narrow interactions and looking for ways to either support some of them more or get rid of them if it is deemed to be not worth the space in the cube. I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on the questions I posed above.

Kirblinx said:
3. Power band is very wide
I went into your cube blind when I did my test drafts and saw a pile of cool combo-esque cards (Aluren, Cloudstone Curio, Enduring Renewal, Tooth and Nail). I decided to take Cloudstone Curio and see if I could do some cool things with it. The next pack I am blinded by Jace, the Mindsculptor, Elspeth, Knight Errant and Sword of Light and Shadow. Now instead of taking the average come into play creature that was in that pack I was almost forced to take one of these cards as I thought I wouldn't be able to win if these were the cards I would be versing. I don't understand why cards like Jace, Memory Adept or Sword of Body and Mind are in the cube either, as they have been known to be seriously unfun in draft being quick clocks on hard to deal with permanents.I don't know if there is a cube where Tallowisp and Jace, the Mindsculptor can exist on the same pick level, but I don't think your cube is at that point yet (if it is theoretically possible.


People who have drafted my cube have tended to pick high power level first and then let the cool combo-esque cards they see mid pack determine the direction their deck will go, since those archetypes are more likely to be open. I never intended Tallowisp and Jace, the Mindsculptor to be on the same pick level. I more or less intended cards like Tallowisp to give people direction on what synergies they should look to put in their deck to make their deck be more than just raw power stats.

Jace, Memory Adept isn't in my cube, I think you misread and thought that Jace, Architect of Thought was him. As for Sword of Body and Mind the past few times my play group has drafted our cubes in general, we have decided to have a house rule that Sword of Body and Mind only mills 5 cards instead of 10. This has solved the unfun issue, while keeping the cycle of swords in our cubes.
Kirblinx said:
Not enough mana fixing
I originally had the cycle of vivid lands in this cube too, I think I may cut down to either 8 or 9 cards per guild and put the vivid cycle back in. I think this might help the fixing problem you mentioned. If you think there is a different cycle that would benefit my cube more I am all ears (i.e. bounce lands to support cards like Earthcraft or temples to support consistency.)

Kirblinx said:
Sorry on being such a negative-nancy. I do like your cube, I had a good time drafting it, I just feel like these are the main things holding it back on being a GREAT draft environment.

Thank you so much for taking so much time to look into my cube. I welcome the critiques; I did not post it here to get Atta boys. I decided to create this cube with the intent to create a much different draft environment than people are used to. This cube is still in its infancy and it definitely has room to grow. The more feedback I get the more I can do to try and make it fun for everyone at the table.
 
Grillo_Parlante said:
This is a pretty good article about supporting tribal in cube, and I feel its central premise works for combo as well (though you want to tack on disruptive tools as another element).
Thanks, I enjoyed the read. I understand the pain many cube designers have with running black agro as an archetype. My playgroup has not drafted this cube enough times for me to know if the Goblins and Zombie subthemes are traps, or if the pay offs are actually present.
 
3. Power band is very wide


What Kirblinx wanted to say, I think, is that people are going to skip your themes and archetypes and build decks that are just piles of good stuff. Why should a drafter focus on synergies if they are outclassed by other cards that are excellent no matter what deck they are put in? If you want your archetypes to be alluring, make them worth the effort. Make them better than just picking the strongest card in the pack.

Re: combos, I think which ones to include depends a lot on personal taste. I think that none of the ones you mentioned has the redundancy of the Anafenza+persister combo, though. The one that gets closest is, I think, the Twin one (that you actually already include).
You have Splinter Twin (conveniently fetchable with Tallowisp) and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker (which is a goblin and is fetched by Goblin Matron) as your only token-makers, but there are actually quite a lot of options for the second piece of the combo: the obvious Pestermite and Deceiver Exarch, but also Battered Golem, Bounding Krasis, Breaching Hippocamp, Captain of the Mists, Midnight Guard, Sky Hussar, Sunstrike Legionnaire, Village Bell-Ringer and Zealous Conscripts. And of course Restoration Angel (but it only combos with Kiki). Not all of these are exceptional cards, but you could choose which ones to include based on how well they interact with the other archetypes in your cube.

The other combos just don't have enough critical mass, I think. The only one I would run is the Knight + Retreat one, just because the 2 cards are so solid that they will often see play regardless of the combo.

Personally, I would focus on the above ones and then rely on reanimator, Show and Tell and Sneak Attack to give the Cube a combo feeling. These ones can be very powerful combo decks and they do have enough pieces for a Cube, since any giant beatstick you happen to draft will get the job done. If you want to push the Sneak Attack/Show and Tell deck, maybe you could also include Jhoira of the Ghitu and Quicksilver Amulet. Their power level is far lower than the other 2 pieces, but they provide some redundancy. If you want to expand into green, you could maybe go with Eureka, Elvish Piper, Dramatic Entrance or even Natural Order.

Re: mana fixing, I agree that you could include some more. I am running, and really like, the trilands (Frontier Bivouac and friends). Their power level isn't too high, but each one includes three colour pairs which means that more players could be interested in picking them. Plus, they're cheap to acquire ;)

P.s.: personally, I have an unnatural fondness for Meloku and would often go out of my way to include it in my deck.
P.p.s.: Wurmcoil Engine is Satan. I'd cut that.
 

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
As someone that seriously delved into combo in cube, I wanted to provide some of my experiences, described here.

This is from an earlier build, before I added a more robust disruption suite. Its still in there, but no one has managed to assemble it again, since that dark, dark night long ago. For that reason, I kind of want to tentatively step back a little bit on my final thoughts posted there, but I do think a lot of critical thought should go into including combo.

I just want to reiterate how horrible the games are when a fair deck, with inadequate disruption (adequate disruption being a product of both access and effectiveness) is matched up against a combo deck. The games either reach a point where the fair deck pilot is wondering why they even bothered to draft, or the games start to feel like skill doesn't matter, since they can just end at any time due to the combo draw. At the end of the day it feels like "what are we doing, and why are we even playing?"
 
Thank you everyone for all the great feedback so far. Over the weekend I did some updates to my cube, and I took a lot of what you guys had to say into consideration. I decided to move away from some of the pet combo's in my cube, and move toward ones where their pieces are easier to interact with and can stand up on their own (i.e. creatures).

I am planning on having a cube party in a couple of weekends, so I am looking to polish my cube for the occasion. Oh also there might be enough people for all 540 to be out and about, I am really excited to see how all the decks end up in practice.

Helm of Obedience> Blasting Station
Stuffy Doll> Hangarback Walker
Guilty Conscience > Council's Judgment
Rest in Peace > Reveillark
Mitotic Slime > Thornling
Wall of Blossoms > Devoted Druid
Leyline of the Void > Zulaport Cutthroat
Dragon Fodder > Mogg Fanatic
Mindbreak Trap > Body Double
Dreamborn Muse > Meloku the Clouded Mirror
Alphez said:
Re: mana fixing, I agree that you could include some more. I am running, and really like, the trilands (Frontier Bivouac and friends). Their power level isn't too high, but each one includes three colour pairs which means that more players could be interested in picking them. Plus, they're cheap to acquire ;)
I decided to cut one card of each color combination and go with the temples for now, they smooth out draws and they still force drafters to be mindful of which fixers they pick up. I will keep my eye on them, the Tri lands are next on my testing block.
Alphez said:
P.s.: personally, I have an unnatural fondness for Meloku and would often go out of my way to include it in my deck.
P.p.s.: Wurmcoil Engine is Satan. I'd cut that.

I found room for Meloku, I decided that the blue muse probably wasn't powerful enough in the cube so I cut it. It hurt a little breaking up the cycle, but I think it is for the best. Also, I like a little Satan in my cube :)
Grillo_Parlante said:
As someone that seriously delved into combo in cube, I wanted to provide some of my experiences, described here.

This is from an earlier build, before I added a more robust disruption suite. Its still in there, but no one has managed to assemble it again, since that dark, dark night long ago. For that reason, I kind of want to tentatively step back a little bit on my final thoughts posted there, but I do think a lot of critical thought should go into including combo.

I just want to reiterate how horrible the games are when a fair deck, with inadequate disruption (adequate disruption being a product of both access and effectiveness) is matched up against a combo deck. The games either reach a point where the fair deck pilot is wondering why they even bothered to draft, or the games start to feel like skill doesn't matter, since they can just end at any time due to the combo draw. At the end of the day it feels like "what are we doing, and why are we even playing?"
Grillo_Parlante, I agree that it isn't fun to pit the combo decks against the fair decks have not been given the tools to fight back. It ends up feeling like you have pinned a child against a bear. The least someone could do is give the child a gun. So, I have decided to moved away from combo's that do not utilize vurunable creatures to win. My hope with this is to allow the creature removal this is present in the cube to also count towards fighting against combo kills. Do you have any suggestions toward my disruption package how it currently stands?
 
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