Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Is it fun though? Or is it an oops I win combo? Doesn't seem very interactive to me, and the card is a complete dud when you don't draw your enablers.
Card/Deck Low Power Card Spotlight
- Thread starter Grillo_Parlante
- Start date
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Or...
Cards that have some effect while "off" / have an easier trigger that doesn't just oops win the game. I like Convalescent Care especially, because it lets you keep using these life payment cards.
Cards that have some effect while "off" / have an easier trigger that doesn't just oops win the game. I like Convalescent Care especially, because it lets you keep using these life payment cards.
Thraben Doomsayer seems like a perfectly decent card even without the fateful hour adder. Pumping out a token per turn for free is fine for lower pressure formats, but putting it into some WB life-pay sheel seems to make it quite the assertive finisher. Neat card!
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
I don't remember having ever seen convalescent care. That's the kind of engine card I can get behind!
Thraben Doomsayer is very interesting and made me think of Minions' Murmurs as a way to refill your hand after dropping your cheap creatures while still advancing the life loss plan. Is this a real deck? Go-wide Suicide WB?
The card advantage engines are certainly interesting: Pain Seer is a good 2/2 for 2. Would Raid work well with Inspired? Attacking with a Pain Seer and then playing Mardu Hordechief or Ruin Raider doesn't seem like the worst thing ever.
There aren't many cards that make the connection between number of creatures and life loss though. You have First Response (doesn't seem very good) and the much better Gather the Townsfolk. Maybe there's nothing here but I couldn't help but share these thoughts.
The card advantage engines are certainly interesting: Pain Seer is a good 2/2 for 2. Would Raid work well with Inspired? Attacking with a Pain Seer and then playing Mardu Hordechief or Ruin Raider doesn't seem like the worst thing ever.
There aren't many cards that make the connection between number of creatures and life loss though. You have First Response (doesn't seem very good) and the much better Gather the Townsfolk. Maybe there's nothing here but I couldn't help but share these thoughts.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
?
I have lower expectations for this one, but it looks like it should go on the same deck.
I still haven't played with Near-Death Experience. I'm adding it to my cube (along with Axis of Mortality and Triskaidekaphobia), will report back if someone actually tries it.
Convalescent Care sure looks interesting. I fear it might not be good enough to build around, though. Has anyone actually played this card and knows how good/bad it is?
I still haven't played with Near-Death Experience. I'm adding it to my cube (along with Axis of Mortality and Triskaidekaphobia), will report back if someone actually tries it.
Convalescent Care sure looks interesting. I fear it might not be good enough to build around, though. Has anyone actually played this card and knows how good/bad it is?
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Would that allow for a sort of crossover from an aggressive WB group of cards into a sort of niche WRB Enduring Ideal list? It's certainly tempting to imagine some kind of controlling game between things like Crippling Fatigue, Read the Bones (or Painful Truths) and the RB Talisman and, while I haven't looked, it seems that the related enchantments here are pretty neat. I wonder if giving that same removal to the aggressive list would make life too difficult for this kind of fragile combo or if the fight over cards like Phyrexian Rager would simply solve the issue. Well, that's too much wondering for now.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I'm not really sure how feasible it would be in practice, but I like the idea of it.
One of the potential issues with the B/x lifepay deck, is that someone can misdraft it by picking up the lifepay cards, but missing out on the lifegain portion (or not drafting enough of those pieces). All in all, I think people do a pretty decent job navigating that on their own (with the possible exception of UB) but it can still create weird instances where things start to feel very matchupy.
It would be kind of nice to have pieces that increase the density of ways to not screw up drafting black draw, and perhaps do it in a fun, unique way.
Again, not sure how deep you can go with it, or how fesible it would be in reality, but form seems like a fun/powerful card to toy around with, that might make some fateful hour cards into interesting syngery pieces. Than maybe that can be built off of with some of these other low life matters cards.
One of the potential issues with the B/x lifepay deck, is that someone can misdraft it by picking up the lifepay cards, but missing out on the lifegain portion (or not drafting enough of those pieces). All in all, I think people do a pretty decent job navigating that on their own (with the possible exception of UB) but it can still create weird instances where things start to feel very matchupy.
It would be kind of nice to have pieces that increase the density of ways to not screw up drafting black draw, and perhaps do it in a fun, unique way.
Again, not sure how deep you can go with it, or how fesible it would be in reality, but form seems like a fun/powerful card to toy around with, that might make some fateful hour cards into interesting syngery pieces. Than maybe that can be built off of with some of these other low life matters cards.
I have nothing to contribute. I'd just like to point out this:
I've heard the problem with Bx life-pay decks is that you can end up with a deck with no life gain, and just fall over. To me, this didn't seem to be that bad a deal. You do it once, spend the night with what you think is a bad deck, and in the future change your drafting strategy. You can go back to life-pay, with life gain, or do another deck entirely. Neither of these seem to be a problem to me.
Grillo, you just articulated what I had been missing. In fact, what happens is you draft a deck sorely lacking in life gain, and you win some games, and lose some. You destroy control decks or combo decks and lose to hardcore agro. What we've introduced to the system is not a weak deck. It's a deck that trounces sometimes and gets trounced others. This is the matchupy feeling, and this creates bad games.
Thank you.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I like the idea of near death experience, and want it to be good. I like those sort of achievement unlocked build arounds.
A random smattering of cards that have popped up on my radar
The first one because its maybe a more reasonable non-back breaking version of tempo cards like plow under. The second because its a unique and interesting thoughtseize->memory lapse hybrid that generates tempo in a very black way. Sawback is weird and terrible, but in a shivan dragon sort of way, so basically awesome? Mask and eye look like interesting sifting/draw tools, though the power level of minds eye is probably through the roof.
Also, really like the look of this card as a black draw engine
I really like these weird black draw/reach hybrids. They seem like interesting alternate win conditions, and modalish nature of the cards seems like a nice way to provide solid front end power, while rewarding back end player creativity.
A random smattering of cards that have popped up on my radar
The first one because its maybe a more reasonable non-back breaking version of tempo cards like plow under. The second because its a unique and interesting thoughtseize->memory lapse hybrid that generates tempo in a very black way. Sawback is weird and terrible, but in a shivan dragon sort of way, so basically awesome? Mask and eye look like interesting sifting/draw tools, though the power level of minds eye is probably through the roof.
Also, really like the look of this card as a black draw engine
I really like these weird black draw/reach hybrids. They seem like interesting alternate win conditions, and modalish nature of the cards seems like a nice way to provide solid front end power, while rewarding back end player creativity.
I am fairly convinced I want to try this card out:
About as close as you can get to combo-level with kor skyfisher, can really power up the board in white decks, and perfectly fine with other color creatures too. I'm definitely not certain it classifies as "low powered" but meh
About as close as you can get to combo-level with kor skyfisher, can really power up the board in white decks, and perfectly fine with other color creatures too. I'm definitely not certain it classifies as "low powered" but meh
I love the concept of Oketra's Monument, but I kind of wish it was a 
enchantment without the mana discount. I'm very picky about token producers in my list, though; I think they're a good way to establish color identity. Might try it sometime anyway, of course; it seems to have a lot of potential.
enchantment without the mana discount. I'm very picky about token producers in my list, though; I think they're a good way to establish color identity. Might try it sometime anyway, of course; it seems to have a lot of potential.So something like this, basically, right?
That was a joke by the way
I am fairly convinced I want to try this card out:
About as close as you can get to combo-level with kor skyfisher, can really power up the board in white decks, and perfectly fine with other color creatures too. I'm definitely not certain it classifies as "low powered" but meh
If it doesn't work out you could also try
Which is one I've been trying to get into my list for a while
Shrine is super good, for all sorts of reasons (tokens, artifacts, white spell velocity). Monument I've just taken out. It was either too generic token making, or you were aiming for some sort of combo with kor skyfisher et al. It's just a bit narrow.
I like the idea of near death experience, and want it to be good. I like those sort of achievement unlocked build arounds.
A random smattering of cards that have popped up on my radar
I really like these weird black draw/reach hybrids. They seem like interesting alternate win conditions, and modalish nature of the cards seems like a nice way to provide solid front end power, while rewarding back end player creativity.
Fallow earth is either a bit of a do nothing or frustrating timewalk, not sure it's good to go. Re painful memories, I think I prefer:
Sawback manticore is old school cool, but way to weak at that cost I think.
Mask of memory, with any kind of evasion is absolutely strong.
Mind's eye, is not low powered!
Damnable pact looks really cool. Like the risk/reward choice of using it on yourself, and the ability to burn somebody out/deck them. I think it could be really good in the right format.
Anybody have experience with
I have memories of Jace, AOT holding off hoards with his +1, and not being able to attack and kill the stone makes me slightly worried.
I like giving blue another Artifact that strengthens the Artifact control decks, and a way to 'answer' token swarm.
I have memories of Jace, AOT holding off hoards with his +1, and not being able to attack and kill the stone makes me slightly worried.
I like giving blue another Artifact that strengthens the Artifact control decks, and a way to 'answer' token swarm.
Cumber Stone seems sweet for an artifact control deck. At least it doesn't draw cards like Jace does. Its probably fine if your go wide decks have some anthem effects to counter it.
I tried it and came to the conclusion that Jace was just a more interesting card. I liked the tension Jace created, and swapped out both Cumber Stone and Fact or Fiction for him.
I'm gonna give the stone a try. I can understand people choosing Jace, but it's just a power pick, whereas at least stone encourages archetypes. We'll see.
Anyhow, how about
Looks..cool? Good with cycling etc?
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
That looks like a brilliant card to try, if you're in a slower format that wants the consistency that tutors bring, but don't wish games to be reduced down to executing tutor sequences behind a removal wall. I really like how its another card that puts the emphasis on library quality, and the strength of future draws, while also creating a bit of a sub-game.
The mana cost is probably the major detriment--it would be much better at 2cc. As it is, finding room to cast it, delaying drawing the card, would probably be the major issue with it.
The mana cost is probably the major detriment--it would be much better at 2cc. As it is, finding room to cast it, delaying drawing the card, would probably be the major issue with it.