General Modern Masters 2015

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Super late to the party, but I just wanted to say that its weird to me how magic is a game whose content runs fleeing from any sort of genuine expression of humanity, but than wants to take these occastional forays at whatever the social issue du jour is; issues that by their nature, require some genuine exploration of humanity.

When I type alesha, who smiles at death into google, the suggested search prompts have nothing to do with transgender, despite this supposing to be WOTCs flagship foray into the topic. Of course, for that to change, it would require having magic content actually focusing on magic as a social experience, rather than magic content focused on selling cards for an anti-social competitive scene.
 
Yea, I've become pretty cynical about this kind of stuff. I'm all for LGBT rights, but dealing with radfems, otherkin, and insane pro-censorship internet keyboard warriors (Geordie Tait & K.goldfish come to mind) has left me less sympathic to their struggle, if only because of the fact that these few jackasses either greatly exaggerate things too frequently or are way too aggro about how virtually everything in entertainment media is problematic(a large majority honestly isn't). I know it sounds bad but when trans friend Jill won't stop telling me how lucky I am to have cis-privilege despite me being in poverty and her having a car bought by her parents, it gets sickening. Even worse is how infectious some of these ideas have become. It's always in the media cuz controversy=clicks=money, and I feel like when a game half assedly attempts to appeal to that audience, it's just another cash grab. A good example being Alesha, who no one would have ever guessed was trans if creative didn't write the story in such a way to make it painstakingly obvious. I mean it is a good thing to do, but done for the wrong reasons. The wrong reason being a little media attention and more money.
 
Maybe I'm greatly underestimating how much the Magic community as a whole gives a shit about what the creative team writes about, but I have a feeling that 95% (or more) of the player base has no idea that Alesha is trans. Myself included until Grillo just posted it. I'd also wager a guess that 95% of that 95% would not care one way or another if they did find out (myself included). But I could be way off here.
 
Yeah, I dig - it really annoyed my grandparents when black people started being visible, and it really annoyed my parents when gay people started getting legal, medical, and news attention. And now the transfolks bother you because you feel they're getting a slice of pie that you're not getting.

For you it's just an annoying cash grab where WotC tries to court the favor of a new demographic. For people in those demographics, it's the first time a character who is in a wheelchair, agender, or transgender has ever been portrayed. Jace sells sets in part because a lotta players identify with him. They look at Jace and see a somewhat antisocial, highly intelligent mage and they like seeing themselves, or a more powerful and heroic version of themselves. Can't other folks have a turn?
how lucky I am to have cis-privilege despite me being in poverty
The poverty and the lack of ways for you to escape your poverty aren't because of the newly-visible trans folk, those barriers are in your way because of the invisible hand of rich old white guys who don't want to share. I understand that frustration, cuz I'm poor too, and it's tempting to loose that anger on targets we can actually reach (heighbors, bad drivers, teachers, people of color) because we have so little direct involvement with or control over the systems and people that keep us down.

Redirect your anger at your chains, not at your fellow slaves who are getting what appears to be an unfair amount of attention in your eyes. Other folks getting a good turn is not taking away from something you would otherwise be getting.
 
Mine successfully stepped on? The point of my post was a joke- "if wizards can start being inclusive of groups that have been historically excluded from, well, everything, why not this group, which has also always been excluded, hush-hush and hidden away, on any cards?" When perverts are clearly not in the same class in any regard. It was a feeble line to draw, and I thought that was pretty clear. INTERNET SARCASM
When I type alesha, who smiles at death into google, the suggested search prompts have nothing to do with transgender

Really? When I do, the fourth suggestion is "transgender," surrounded by edh, tiny leaders, price, and deck. When I actually search the cardname, 3 of the 9 hits on the first page are trans-related. (5 are database/store listing, 1 is her story article) Isn't google influenced by region and such, though?
I think this is being pretty glib, comparing transgendered identities to silly people like otherkin is pretty disrespectful and undermining.
Yeah, I'm a pretty glib and flippant person. I didn't mean any harm by what I said, just making a sarcastic reference to something I assumed was a well-known groan-inducer (mayonnaise as a gender). None of this inclusiveness itself actually bothers me, and honestly I don't particularly care what anyone's deal is, but the whole social justice warrior uprising has fractured and broken a number of my gaming and social circles, so I'm pretty over the whole topic in general.
I know it sounds bad but when trans friend Jill won't stop telling me how lucky I am to have cis-privilege despite me being in poverty and her having a car bought by her parents, it gets sickening.
Basically this.
Do you not get that twenty years of rich fantasy worlds without a single gay or disabled character in them sends a message that certain people are less welcome, less heroic? Are you so uninformed that you think the only problem with our gender binary is that sometimes people are born on the wrong side of an arbitrary line? That's on you, dude.
Frankly the vast majority of characters aren't given any sexuality at all, and I wouldn't expect wizards to print characters who are less physically capable of combat in a game that is essentially about war. You're coming on pretty hard for a petty joke, mate- sorry I referenced such a sore spot, I meant no harm.
TL;DR
Didn't mean to derail the thread so hard and would rather this dogpile not continue- I'll take PMs if anyone's got anything else to say to me though.
 
Jace sells sets in part because a lotta players identify with him. They look at Jace and see a somewhat antisocial, highly intelligent mage and they like seeing themselves, or a more powerful and heroic version of themselves.


Are you sure about that? I think Jace sells sets because pretty much every version of that guy is broken. Oh, and blue is a really popular color in Magic (large in part because it has traditionally been the best color in Magic).

Again, I'm old and clearly out of touch with today's generation of players but are you guys telling me most Magic players read the lore and care about it? Because that was not true back when I played this game regularly (10 years ago). Everyone I knew back then played Magic because it was fun and sets sold well if they had good cards in it.

Maybe my generation was less sophisticated or something, but I really think you guys are hanging with the elite 5% who play this game and have a skewed view of what the demographics overall really are. This reminds me a lot of World of Warcraft and how the forums are crawling with hard core raiders and they think it's a representative sample of the 6 million (or however many) subs play the game. Yeah, no.
 
Yeah, I dig - it really annoyed my grandparents when black people started being visible, and it really annoyed my parents when gay people started getting legal, medical, and news attention. And now the transfolks bother you because you feel they're getting a slice of pie that you're not getting.

For you it's just an annoying cash grab where WotC tries to court the favor of a new demographic. For people in those demographics, it's the first time a character who is in a wheelchair, agender, or transgender has ever been portrayed. Jace sells sets in part because a lotta players identify with him. They look at Jace and see a somewhat antisocial, highly intelligent mage and they like seeing themselves, or a more powerful and heroic version of themselves. Can't other folks have a turn?

The poverty and the lack of ways for you to escape your poverty aren't because of the newly-visible trans folk, those barriers are in your way because of the invisible hand of rich old white guys who don't want to share. I understand that frustration, cuz I'm poor too, and it's tempting to loose that anger on targets we can actually reach (heighbors, bad drivers, teachers, people of color) because we have so little direct involvement with or control over the systems and people that keep us down.

Redirect your anger at your chains, not at your fellow slaves who are getting what appears to be an unfair amount of attention in your eyes. Other folks getting a good turn is not taking away from something you would otherwise be getting.

Yea, you have a point. I do honestly like the characters quite a bit myself. Maybe I'm just grumpy that their issues seem to be getting a lot more attention than my issues, idk. But to be fair, they do have a lot of things going against them. But I know for a fact it's also true that there are a lot of statistics that are greatly exaggerated. But that's referring more to a small handful of modern feminists than the trans community. It may come as a surprise, but a number of years ago, I dated a transgirl. I knew she was trans. Didn't change much of anything. I'm still friends with her. But she's changed a lot, too. I mean her name isn't Jill but she DOES own a car she never pays a cent for and occasionally tells me that I'm more fortunate than her despite her comfortable life with slight dating problems as opposed to my "living paycheck to paycheck, saving 30 a week for the future" lifestyle.
 

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
Are you sure about that? I think Jace sells sets because pretty much every version of that guy is broken. Oh, and blue is a really popular color in Magic (large in part because it has traditionally been the best color in Magic).
yes, Maro has mentioned multiple times that, of the Lorwyn Five, Jace was meant to be an analogue for the "typical Magic player". he's a cerebral, brooding young man who uses his brainpower to outwit his more thuggish opponents. this is also the main reason every version of him has been pushed, starting from the first one.
 
Edit: whoah there were like 4 posts by the time I posted this

As with almost any social movement, there's always a radical contingency that annoys everyone. I think the heart of the LGBT movement is in the right place.

Equality issues are so ubiquitous and run so deep that it isn't surprising when radicals will keep digging until they've done damage to their own movement. Inequalities can be found everywhere in varying degrees, and in the frenzy certain activists who are hyper-aware of it can become overly sensitive. Social change only happens at certain speeds, and your average citizen can only absorb so much awareness of a group's oppression before it overwhelms, at which point you begin to run the risk of it being interpreted as hyperbole and/or weepiness.

Here's quote from an interesting article that's sort of related to this:

Debates among people who share utopian goals, in fact, are nothing new. I remember coming out in the 1970s and 1980s into a world of cultural feminism and lesbian separatism. Hardly an event would go by back then without someone feeling violated, hurt, traumatized by someone’s poorly phrased question, another person’s bad word choice or even just the hint of perfume in the room. People with various kinds of fatigue, easily activated allergies, poorly managed trauma were constantly holding up proceedings to shout in loud voices about how bad they felt because someone had said, smoked, or sprayed something near them that had fouled up their breathing room. Others made adjustments, curbed their use of deodorant, tried to avoid patriarchal language, thought before they spoke, held each other, cried, moped, and ultimately disintegrated into a messy, unappealing morass of weepy, hypo-allergic, psychosomatic, anti-sex, anti-fun, anti-porn, pro-drama, pro-processing post-political subjects.
Political times change and as the 1980s gave way to the 1990s, as weepy white lady feminism gave way to reveal a multi-racial, poststructuralist, intersectional feminism of much longer provenance, people began to laugh, loosened up, people got over themselves and began to talk and recognize that the enemy was not among us but embedded within new, rapacious economic systems. Needless to say, for women of color feminisms, the stakes have always been higher and identity politics always have played out differently. But, in the 1990s, books on neoliberalism, postmodernism, gender performativity and racial capital turned the focus away from the wounded self and we found our enemies and, as we spoke out and observed that neoliberal forms of capitalism were covering over economic exploitation with language of freedom and liberation, it seemed as if we had given up wounded selves for new formulations of multitudes, collectivities, collaborations, and projects less centered upon individuals and their woes. Of course, I am flattening out all kinds of historical and cultural variations within multiple histories of feminism, queerness and social movements. But I am willing to do so in order to make a point here about the re-emergence of a rhetoric of harm and trauma that casts all social difference in terms of hurt feelings and that divides up politically allied subjects into hierarchies of woundedness.
I recently read an article casting Meghan Trainor as a traitor to feminism. While the article does make some points which are probably true, it feels like it's trying too hard to find something offensive in her music at the cost of undermining what other progressions her music has contributed.
As a general rule I think it's fine to point out even minor transgressions of equality, but the target should be a reasonable one and the tone should be appropriately matched to its severity.
FWIW, I think the whole Alesha thing is great. Makes for a more interesting character and doesn't feel pandering.
 
Diakonov, I give your post the greatest like I've ever given on here cuz it hits it out of the park for me. This article is brilliant and I'm only a tenth of the way in. Shit is long but it's like everything I've thought and felt is put into very smart words that make sense and what in my mind were just soft, kindergarten grade structures of clay are shaped into magnificent works of granite articulated by a master. And for that, I thank you.
 
yes, Maro has mentioned multiple times that, of the Lorwyn Five, Jace was meant to be an analogue for the "typical Magic player". he's a cerebral, brooding young man who uses his brainpower to outwit his more thuggish opponents. this is also the main reason every version of him has been pushed, starting from the first one.


I don't doubt any of that. I'm questioning what percentage of the Magic playing population actually knows (and is influenced by) this. Does the average FNM guy know (or care) about who Jace is? I have a hard time believing that is true anymore than the average WOW player knows the history behind the Lich King or whatever (beyond what the cut scenes in the game tell you - and I'm guessing most players don't watch or pay attention to much of that either).
 

CML

Contributor
come on guys there's only much we can say about losers. "The study of crippled, stunted, immature, and unhealthy specimens can yield only a cripple psychology and a cripple philosophy"
 

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Wow, I wasn't expecting all of these responses!

FWIW, I think the whole Alesha thing is great. Makes for a more interesting character and doesn't feel pandering.

Thats my whole thing though, it does feel very poorly done. Pandering is maybe not the right word (though maybe there is a bit of it, if it fits in with a WOTC marketing strategy).

When I type Alesha who smiles at death into google, here is what it automatically finds for me:

"Alesha who smiles at death
Alesha who smiles at death edh
Alesha who smiles at death tiny leaders
Alesha who smiles at death price"

Nothing about her being transgender. This is disappointing.

The only reason I even know Alesha was supposed to be transgender was because of a random post on this forum. I just think the major websites could have taken 5 minutes off from marketing <insert product> to talk a bit about the player base, for once.


Debates among people who share utopian goals, in fact, are nothing new. I remember coming out in the 1970s and 1980s into a world of cultural feminism and lesbian separatism. Hardly an event would go by back then without someone feeling violated, hurt, traumatized by someone’s poorly phrased question, another person’s bad word choice or even just the hint of perfume in the room. People with various kinds of fatigue, easily activated allergies, poorly managed trauma were constantly holding up proceedings to shout in loud voices about how bad they felt because someone had said, smoked, or sprayed something near them that had fouled up their breathing room. Others made adjustments, curbed their use of deodorant, tried to avoid patriarchal language, thought before they spoke, held each other, cried, moped, and ultimately disintegrated into a messy, unappealing morass of weepy, hypo-allergic, psychosomatic, anti-sex, anti-fun, anti-porn, pro-drama, pro-processing post-political subjects.
Political times change and as the 1980s gave way to the 1990s, as weepy white lady feminism gave way to reveal a multi-racial, poststructuralist, intersectional feminism of much longer provenance, people began to laugh, loosened up, people got over themselves and began to talk and recognize that the enemy was not among us but embedded within new, rapacious economic systems. Needless to say, for women of color feminisms, the stakes have always been higher and identity politics always have played out differently. But, in the 1990s, books on neoliberalism, postmodernism, gender performativity and racial capital turned the focus away from the wounded self and we found our enemies and, as we spoke out and observed that neoliberal forms of capitalism were covering over economic exploitation with language of freedom and liberation, it seemed as if we had given up wounded selves for new formulations of multitudes, collectivities, collaborations, and projects less centered upon individuals and their woes. Of course, I am flattening out all kinds of historical and cultural variations within multiple histories of feminism, queerness and social movements. But I am willing to do so in order to make a point here about the re-emergence of a rhetoric of harm and trauma that casts all social difference in terms of hurt feelings and that divides up politically allied subjects into hierarchies of woundedness.

Ugh...postmodernism. Once upon a time I too was a believer, until people started asking me if I was "white" or "Italian" with the consequences of my answer having a huge impact on how I would be treated, regardless of who I was as a person. When you start going overboard on these (oftentimes tortured) identity labels, I've always found the result just to be really ugly, even if its done under the guise of social justice.
 

James Stevenson

Steamflogger Boss
Staff member
what are you still talking about this

My magic playing buddy just looked over this thread and said "Is alesha transgender? Really?"

In my experience this debate only exists on the internet. If you wanna see less of it, go outside and be a nice person.
 
Thats my whole thing though, it does feel very poorly done. Pandering is maybe not the right word (though maybe there is a bit of it, if it fits in with a WOTC marketing strategy).

When I type Alesha who smiles at death into google, here is what it automatically finds for me:

"Alesha who smiles at death
Alesha who smiles at death edh
Alesha who smiles at death tiny leaders
Alesha who smiles at death price"

Nothing about her being transgender. This is disappointing.
I see your point, but it's still better that they're exploring new territory than not at all. If Alesha was just another non-transgendered character, most people wouldn't have blinked an eye and we certainly wouldn't be having this discussion.

Also, if you complete the google search on "Alesha who smiles at death" the second hit is the mothership article about the character.
 

CML

Contributor
in general I think Alesha being transgender, Kiora losing her last name to appease some Maori, are the kinds of symbolic gestures that do less good by being good (lol whatever) than by excusing all the things that are fucked up about Magic culture IN THE ACTUAL WORLD!!! I'm talking about going to events and having it be depressing due to lack of broader relevance, wine, women, song, etc. and Zac Hill is jerking himself off to pretty marginal stuff IN A FICTIONALIZED UNIVERSE WRITTEN BY SOMEONE WITH THE SKILLS OF A FIVE-YEAR-OLD while The Pro Tour And Magic Writing And A Lot of Other Stuff Continues To Suck.

as for the specific issue! we were talking about this the other day and decided trans people get treated not badly at local events. no clue if this means they are in general in Magic (the Twitch chat was pretty brutal to Feline when she won her open) but those guys are Internet assholes anyway.
 

Dom Harvey

Contributor
The weird thing for me is that this is a *big deal* precisely because these demographics have barely been represented in Magic at all historically; unless Wizards is making a big shift towards this being a regular feature of the lore, it feels like they are just basking in the plaudits that they know they will get for a move like this and then returning to business as usual.
 
The weird thing for me is that this is a *big deal* precisely because these demographics have barely been represented in Magic at all historically; unless Wizards is making a big shift towards this being a regular feature of the lore, it feels like they are just basking in the plaudits that they know they will get for a move like this and then returning to business as usual.
I hope that isn't true, but you may be right.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
I have been having too much fun on MtG Forge by reimagining Modern Masters 2015 and removing teh suck. Also I have tried to actually reprint certain staples, like commons and uncommons that were getting too expensive *cough* Serum Visions *cough*

I can't believe MaRo used the "too many keywords" card when Battlecry and Persist are largely irrelevant to the environment and on only 2 and 3 cards respectively. I put in Scry (Serum Visions!) and Unearth (elementals) instead. Persist was mildly funny with proliferate, but there's more than enough interactions already.

Anyway, I actually enjoy drafting B/G and W/B now, elementals is also better. Still don't know what U/B is up to, but there wasn't really a consistent plan in MM2015 to begin with. Spirits, elementals and sac I can fix (Pawn of Ulamog + Bloodthrone Vampire = Awesome! by the way).

Color|Rarity|Cardname > Replacement
W|R|Battlegrace Angel > Celestial Ancient
W|U|Kor Duelist > Tallowisp
W|C|Mighty Leap > Divine Favor
W|C|Raise the Alarm > Master's Call
W|C|Waxmane Baku > Kabuto Moth
U|U|Air Servant > Vedalken Anatomist
U|C|Telling Time > Serum Visions
U|C|Vigean Graftmage > Brackwater Elemental
B|U|Daggerclaw Imp > Soul Snuffers
B|U|Dismember > Shriekmaw
B|C|Dread Drone > Pawn of Ulamog
B|C|Ghostly Changeling > Offalsnout
B|R|Midnight Banshee > Damnation
B|C|Plagued Rusalka > Viscera Seer
B|R|Puppeteer Clique > He Who Hungers
B|U|Reassembling Skeleton > Corrosive Mentor
B|C|Scuttling Death > Revenant Patriarch
B|C|Shrivel > Torture
B|C|Sickle Ripper > Wicked Akuba
B|C|Sign in Blood > Night's Whisper
B|C|Vampire Lacerator > Tormented Soul
R|M|Comet Storm > Dragonmaster Outcast
R|C|Goblin Fireslinger > Mark of Mutiny
R|C|Inner-Flame Igniter > Vithian Stinger
R|C|Soulbright Flamekin > Simian Spirit Guide
R|R|Spikeshot Elder > Goblin Guide
R|R|Thunderblust > Hell's Thunder
G|C|Commune with Nature > Ancient Stirrings
G|U|Mutagenic Growth > Might of Old Krosa
G|R|Overwhelming Stampede > Greater Good
G|C|Simic Initiate > Twinblade Slasher
M|U|Drooling Groodion > Golgari Rotwurm
M|U|Ethercaste Knight > Ethersworn Shieldmage
M|U|Necrogenesis > Golgari Guildmage
M|U|Vengeful Rebirth > Exploding Borders
H|U|Dimir Guildmage > Blizzard Specter
H|U|Restless Apparition > Gwyllion Hedge-Mage
A|R|Chimeric Mass > Eldrazi Conscription
A|U|Culling Dais > Primal Beyond
A|C|Flayer Husk > Tumble Magnet
A|R|Long-Forgotten Gohei > Oblivion Stone
A|U|Mortarpod > Viridian Longbow
A|R|Sunforger > Bonehoard
A|U|Tumble Magnet > Long-Forgotten Gohei

So, anybody else crazy enough to try fan-fiction draft formats? :)
 
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