General Ramp as a healthy part of a format

[Dom Harvey]

Playing extra lands is maybe my favourite thing to do in Magic, and now that I've fallen in love with the Amulet deck I want it in my Cube for sentimental reasons if nothing else. My issue with ramp is that it severely punishes durdly midrange decks that aim to grind out marginal value. Now you might say 'Mono-White Control or whatever silly project you want to support now was never going to work anyway, get over it', and you'd be right (more on this in another thread)! However, I think there's a larger discussion to be had about what makes ramp a fun deck to play with and against instead of just another non-interactive strategy.

Questions:
- What do ramp decks look like in your Cube, and are you happy with them?
- What are the advantages/disadvantages, in both power and good gameplay, to various types of ramp (fetching extra lands, playing extra lands, creatures, artifact ramp)?
- What should the payoff be, maximizing spells that have some utility before you reach the ideal game-state (Mizzium Mortars/Cyclonic Rift, X spells, kicker), accelerating into the curve-toppers that normal midrange/control decks want (good 5/6-drops like Titans). or dedicated rewards for making lots of mana (Karn/Ugin, Upheaval, Eldrazi, Craterhoof Behemoth)?
- Can ramp be powerful enough to stand on its own legs without exploiting its natural edge against midrange decks and non-counterspell modes of interaction?
- With all the land searching that ramp decks can potentially play, what utility lands or classes of lands get you excited? If you had Primeval Titan, what would you want to fetch up?

For my part, all I want is to have Oracle of Mul Daya in play permanently: I love moving lands between zones, playing more of them, and finding lands that do cool things. The cards that tie into this approach also have uses elsewhere - as important parts of landfall aggro or top-of-library themes, and generally good role-players in midrange/control - and promote a type of gameplay that I think is enjoyable for both players and not just me. Primeval Titan embodies everything I like about this style of ramp - it bridges the gap to the 'super-ramp' payoffs if that's your thing, and it lets you craft a plan around it but is also appropriately powerful in normal decks.

 

[blacksmithy]

Here are a few of my favorite good-in-the-early-game ramp targets:

My favorite dedicated targets would have to be:

 

[ahadabans]

What do you guys think of

Biorhythm was such a cool effect, and now it's stapled to a decent creature ramp effect on a stick making it much less narrow. I haven't had time to test it though.

 

[Diakonov]

I like to pretend that when you hit formidable he becomes Shaman of Finally I Remember Ways.

 

[blacksmithy]

I run shaman in edh, but he seems like a tough sell in most cubes... I mean the mana-gen plus the body is a pretty decent deal. Just be aware that his ulti is harder to pull off (and worse) than splinter twin. In fact its probably on the same level as a 6-damage grapeshot in cube. If youre okay with that, go for it. He's super spicy even though hes a huge tease.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Now, a lot of people run this girl:

And it's been swingy but powerful. Assuming you want a lower risk (non 1 toughness) lower reward (1 less mana) card, he could be good

 

[Eric Chan]

Ramp is one of my favourite archetypes in every format - limited, constructed, and everything in between - and that it's usually a tier 3 deck at best always saddens me. I'm a giant Timmy at heart; unlike Dom, it's not creating and playing the land engine that excites me, so much as the payoff of casting giant fatties. I don't know that I have any answers for whether ramp can exist as a healthy part of a metagame, outside of formats dedicated to it, like Rise of the Eldrazi, but I think it's sure as hell worth trying.

Assuming that we're talking about green ramp more than artifact ramp, the biggest thing this archetype has gained in the last few years is the monstrosity keyword. This means that some of the big payoff cards don't necessarily have to be six and seven drops anymore; the midrange creatures can now get in on the action, too, giving you an immediate board presence while still serving as mana sinks when the time is right.



Polukranos is the clear all-star of the group above, but all of the others pull their weight, too. In particular, Hydra Broodmaster has quietly been an exemplar for ramp targets, being at a reasonable casting cost, carrying a good-sized starting body, and sporting a terrific monstrosity trigger that rewards you handsomely for really ramping.

There'll always be room for dedicated, high-end fatties like Terastodon and Craterhoof Behemoth, but my suggestion to rehabilitate green ramp would be to start with the suite of monstrous creatures, and build it out from there.

 

[Jason Waddell]

Eric, what cards would you cut to run the above (I run Polukranos already)?

My list, if it's relevant: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Li9IvhqGz2y9WdQmS7n_E-g863Dctw4-yWdBWXCxJrI/edit#gid=0

Ember Swallower competitors:
Avalanche Riders
Hero of Oxid Ridge
Hellrider
Flametongue Kavu
Murderous Redcap

Arbor Colossus competitors:
Acidic Slime
Thragtusk
Vorapede
Titania, Protector of Argoth

Stormbreath:
Thundermaw Hellkite

Hydra Broodmaster:
Rampaging Baloths

 

[Eric Chan]

I might not run all five of them at once - a subset of two or three of them is probably more than enough for a cube of your size. Ember Swallower especially is outclassed in a high-powered list.

I've never had the same appreciation as you for Vorapede, even when I tried him out myself - there was never a home here for a five-drop combat-only creature. He's probably what I would axe, though I know he does solid work with your Birthing Pod theme.

Stormbreath Dragon isn't too far of a power level drop off from Thundermaw Hellkite, so it's more a matter of the extra power and toughness vs. the possibility of hitting seven mana. I will say that Thundermaw is better as an aggro finisher, as those decks barely reach five mana as it is.

I much prefer Broodmaster to Rampaging Baloths, though I know the latter fits better with your landfall theme. My issue with Baloths is that I was always afraid to attack with the 6/6 itself before I'd gotten enough "value" off of him, because he's not that tough to gang block and kill. Whereas with Broodmaster, you can always send him into the red zone with mana up and force them to respect the pump, even if you have other plans for your mana that turn.