General What's the play?

Should I change Police Brutality?

  • Keep it

    Votes: 5 41.7%
  • Change it

    Votes: 7 58.3%

  • Total voters
    12

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Hahaha, gotcha! This is actually about racism and sensibilities (Mostly), but I do hope a few people get fooled by that title.

So for quite a while now, this has been a card in my cube:

r6C8v4F.jpg


It plays well, it fits well into the environment, it’s not overpowered, and (I think) the flavor works well. Were it not for the mechanical binding of direct damage to red and sometimes black, I think it could be a real magic card.

However recently when Safra was over (A++, would cube with again. Lovely woman), she mentioned that perhaps the name should be changed. She has many friends who are actual victims of police brutality, and that it might do better for me to call it something else. Maybe have it be all coy and have it named “Protect and Serve” instead (and swap the flavor text).

I’m not actually sure if the suggestion was serious or not, but even if it wasn’t it brings up a valid point: What’s my responsibility here?

One thing I’ve been thinking of is that if anything, a name change is probably is the way to go. Slaughter and Murder are magic cards, but the distance created by them depicting ancient kings being assassinated and elves being slaughtered seems to make a world of difference to magic players whose families may be victims of such, since WotC hasn’t (at least publicly) come under fire for printing these cards. Hell, they got more flack for the alpha unholy strength :p

40.jpg


Oooo scary.
It’s clearly possible to do this without sacrificing gameplay, which I’m sad to say I hold in higher regard than my player’s sensibilities. In fact, my initial laziness has actually helped this a lot. Take for example this card that hypothetically is actually in Shadows over Innistrad: (Though less likely given Declaration in Stone)

A Murder Most Foul {2}{W}
Instant
Destroy target creature. If a nonblack creature is destroyed this way, its controller investigates (Put a colorless Clue artifact token onto the battlefield with "2, Sacrifice this artifact: Draw a card.")
Nobody will miss you anyways

So if that card was actually spoiled tomorrow, I think it would be a pretty safe bet its playtest name would have been “Hate Crime”, and that WotC (Rightly) changed it to LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE before releasing it.

But, the point I want to bring up here is that the card is significantly less of an issue in this way if the art depicts a vampire or a zombie being beaten down rather than a black man in rags. (Though is it a murder if the target is undead?)

A lot of people have suggested that Police Brutality should only target nonwhite creatures, arguments being that “White people aren’t victims of police brutality” and “Sunlance++ is a much more likely card to see print than white searing spear” in equal number. While both of those camps are wrong (The former because police brutality is hardly a North American concept, and certainly happens in regions of Africa where being white is maligned, plus if I’m going to be flippant, white gay people certainly exist, and the latter because this doesn’t hit players :p), I don’t think either of those arguments are pushing me either way here.

But perhaps pointing at the art of Knight Watch and saying that the closest thing to a minority in that picture is a goblin in the background reminds you more of an “I’m not racist, I have tons of black friends” more than any convincing argument. Let’s go down another hypothetical:

29.jpg


As above, this card is called extinction, but given the flavor text is more closely related to Genocide. I don’t think Volrath is talking about the buffalo-like creatures in the art when he mentions he had an entire race wiped out on a whim.

But hey, that card is fine. It’s about elves if you look closely and buffalo if you don’t look too hard, and for all we know it’s just Volrath blustering as emptily as people on Xbox live. This card and Volrath generally being a bastard are all the evidence we have that it isn't.

However, what if someone has it altered to show the entrance to Auschwitz? That’s a moving piece of art, and it probably makes you feel something. Or maybe whenever a player casts it they start paraphrasing Hitler’s speeches about whatever creature type they’re naming. That may be less so.

I’m not sure yet. I’ve been thinking about this for a while, and I’m wondering what you guys think. At least as opposed to most discussions of race on the internet, I’ve got a discernable, answerable question and goal :p


What’s the play?
 
I'd just change it. The name can have hurtful connotations to people, it depicts a social malignity that's occurring nowadays, and it seems fairly easily fiddled with for happier people all around. I'm sure you can come up with plenty of alternative names, possibly attached to different artwork. If needed, the detain could become "can't attack or block until your next turn" or something like that (detain, but without the name, to take away the temptation to associate detaining with police action). And there are probably different flavor routes you can take. For instance, a heavily weighted Bola that hurts (or kills) when it hits and then entangles the creature it hit, or a heavy net in the same manner.


(all of this aside from the fact that I still think you can just run Sunlance and be perfectly happy :p)
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
It's not intentionally satire. I was asked a question that made me think, and I've documented my thought process, and thrown in some jokes. If it sounds toxic, I guess that's my experience. *Shrug*

It's possible there's no good answer, but any path I take I want to take intentionally, even if it's no big deal. I've talked to enough people who think running custom cards at all is a unilaterally horrible idea that I can certainly ignore feedback :p
Plus hey, maybe a murder most foul is actually in Shadows. If I hadn't posted this, clearly I'd have no bragging rights. Surely CML isn't the only one who can post long meandering passages which are only related to magic on a surface level?
 

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
It's not intentionally satire. I was asked a question that made me think, and I've documented my thought process, and thrown in some jokes. If it sounds toxic, I guess that's my experience. *Shrug*

It's possible there's no good answer, but any path I take I want to take intentionally, even if it's no big deal. I've talked to enough people who think running custom cards at all is a unilaterally horrible idea that I can certainly ignore feedback :p
Plus hey, maybe a murder most foul is actually in Shadows. If I hadn't posted this, clearly I'd have no bragging rights. Surely CML isn't the only one who can post long meandering passages which are only related to magic on a surface level?


If you have friends you play with that are related to police, or are police, you'll probably have to avoid the negative police references to keep on playing.

If you have friends who are particularly involved with certain campus political movements, you'll probably have to avoid the police references to keep on playing.

You're probably priced into changing it, in order to avoid a lot of awkward conversations and unwanted psychoanalysis on game night. At least for the time being.

Thats the play, unfortunately.
 
Keep it! Police brutality is rare, and not supposed to happen, but it happens. White burn spells are also rare, and also not supposed to happen, so the name is rather poetic.
 
However recently when Safra was over (A++, would cube with again. Lovely woman), she mentioned that perhaps the name should be changed. She has many friends who are actual victims of police brutality, and that it might do better for me to call it something else. Maybe have it be all coy and have it named “Protect and Serve” instead (and swap the flavor text).

...
As above, this card is called extinction, but given the flavor text is more closely related to Genocide. I don’t think Volrath is talking about the buffalo-like creatures in the art when he mentions he had an entire race wiped out on a whim.

I'd say this more revolves around a principle of WOTC flavor design that isn't always followed by custom designers. I'd bet there's a paragraph somewhere in the flavor style guide that includes, "don't include depressing real-world references".

Extinction, from 1997, is probably not the kind of final design that would get approved today. Not because of the casual genocide, which is a very common trope in popular fiction and JJ Abrams movies, but because the morbid art and name of the card could remind players of real-world extinctions of animals, which could make them sad.

Flippancy aside, I think magic cards should avoid those hassles. The story can be full of horrible things, but avoid horrible things that could already be distracting somebody from their leisure time. Corpse Traders over Lecherous Human Traffickers. I also prefer it when they give it a name that will auto-complete on Google after you've typed a few characters ;)
 
I do try to avoid cards that feel too close to home. The problem with cards like that is that you end up with some people feeling shitty, then other people defending those cards and making said people feel unwelcome. It can really limit the scope of your playgroup. Honestly though, one of the best arguments to making this change is that you can bring the cube with you when you travel or move or visit another group and its still playable with whatever random group of people. Its the kind of thing that might not matter much for a long time but can suddenly make a world of difference one day.
 
You could keep a fun pile for people who enjoy/can handle black comedy/social commentary. That way you can allow yourself even greater creative freedom with the cards you make. Also you do not have to worry about triggering any ptsd's.

It is probably easier to make the cube as inoffensive as possible though, at least until the third wave crashes.
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
BTW can a mod edit in a quick poll for Change/Keep? Seems like I can't do that
I like to think these boards are a close enough community that people will just post but human psychology and first year statistics tell me otherwise.
 
Easy fix would be to replace that card with: http://mythicspoiler.com/soi/cards/declarationinstone.html

But for the sake of the argument, i personally would keep it, maybe because police in Finland is still 'one of us' rather than something we can't trust. To me and i'm probably not the only one, police brutality is linked to USA, because i hear such things happening there the most in the news or other media.
This is why i think that my playing group or the random extensions that pop up every now and then probably wouldn't get a bad vibe from such a card.

Then again, if someone in my playing group would give me a hint that this might be a problem, i would rename it, just because i rather have more players in my group than not. If i want to talk about real life problems, i can do that any time i want, so why does it need to happen during drafting :)

Also this card would be a little more flavourful if it dealt 2 damage.
If lightning bolt is 3 damage and 2 damage is shock, then to me 2 damage is more accurate :)


I apoligize my crappy english, i'm writing from my ipad and editing is painful with this thing... :D
 

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
BTW can a mod edit in a quick poll for Change/Keep? Seems like I can't do that
I like to think these boards are a close enough community that people will just post but human psychology and first year statistics tell me otherwise.

Start a new thread with a poll. I'll then see if I can merge your two threads together.
 
In a situation with a custom card and a polite request from a real, live player to change it, I don't see much reason to keep the name aside from being contrarian.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
It's often hard to draw a line when deciding whether complaints about issues like this are justified or not. At times such complaints can seem besides the point, petulant or unfounded*. In this particular case though, I would argue that Police Brutality is not at all a name that would sound at home in any (existing) Magic set. It's therefore hard not to link this to the real life issue of Police Brutality, an issue that is pretty current in the US at the moment. The name is meant to be tongue-in-cheek as far as I can tell, but is a wise-crack worth alienating people over? I would change it to something more in line with actual Magic card names, and less of a real world reference. Something like "Shock and Awe" would work just as well, wouldn't it?

*Edit: On rereading, I should clarify, I think. What you see is not necessarily what others see. A complaint that seems ridiculous from your point of view might be very well founded, and then there are times (though less often I would think, simply because it's hard to relate to complaints that are alien to one's worldview and directed at one's creative efforts) when the complaint actually is besides the point.
 

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member

That was going to be what I was going to suggest the name to be, completely forgetting that it already existed. Even then, if you used that name with that art people could still get offended?

I think the art is the main problem, I think the only way that wizards got away with it is by the card name being a pun so people just laughed it off.

Maybe go with the joke angle, something like 'Fist of Justice' and lighten up the flavour text.
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor

That was going to be what I was going to suggest the name to be, completely forgetting that it already existed. Even then, if you used that name with that art people could still get offended?

I think the art is the main problem, I think the only way that wizards got away with it is by the card name being a pun so people just laughed it off.

Maybe go with the joke angle, something like 'Fist of Justice' and lighten up the flavour text.

Fist of Justice is pretty damn funny actually, but the initial plan was to go with "Protect and Serve" if I change the name, and I think that seems fine.
 
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