General [TLA/TLE] [UB] Avatar: The Last Airbender

Bloomburrow felt really like normal fantasy to me... because I read a lot of Redwall as a child. "The characters are talking animals that do human stuff" is basically free as far as my suspension of disbelief is concerned.

I also read a lot of Redwall as a child, but if I'm at a bookstore asking for fantasy and they give me a book where every character is a talking animal, I'm going to feel like I'm getting punked. I dunno, it seems just as discordant for Magic as oops all detectives to me, but it's not that big of an issue compared to so many other things.

As much as I thought Bloomburrow was fine, I would prefer my fantasy games to look like this:

 
Moving swiftly onwards... I actually had something I wanted to ask folks about. Do you have some kind of threshold of card quantity you aim to reach for a new mechanic that you want to include in your cubes? Or are you happy to have a one-off use if it's otherwise a good fit? The question feels particularly relevant for Avatar with its four bending mechanics that are unlikely to see any usage outside of these two sets. Like, maybe you really like Firebending Student and Foggy Swamp Visions but don't really see including any other Firebending or Waterbending cards. Is it worth the extra comprehension complexity?

I'd say that depends on the card. Firebending Student reads simple even if you spell out the bending ability. If a card is otherwise clean and easily comprehensible, it could just be "the mechanic X card", like Honored Hydra is in my cube the one embalm card, but that's fine because it's just a french vanilla.

Of course, reminder texts are key for cubes. I only allow non-evergreen mechanics with reminder text or in some cases if there are like eight other cards with that mechanic in the (core) cube.
 
Bloomburrow felt really like normal fantasy to me... because I read a lot of Redwall as a child. "The characters are talking animals that do human stuff" is basically free as far as my suspension of disbelief is concerned.
For sure and I wish they'd adapted TLA ideas into a Kamigawa set just like they didn't do Redwall UB (yet).
 
But they do like these. And they do vote with their wallets. You just don't like how they vote and you're in denial about that.

Oh you’re continuing!

Okay let’s do this.

You are talking about the new players that Wizards have brought in with this soulless move. The enfranchised players HATE and I mean loath the UB. They have almost all left the game or are now playing Premodern because that format is known for taking Wizards of the Coast out of the equation.

And if you turn your back on the players who gave you everything you have... then you are the villain, no? Same goes for everyone who supports this Walder Frey behavior.

Can someone summarize for us what has been happening in the storyline the last few sets? Let’s just take these last sets as examples:

- Avatar, the Last Airbender
- Marvel’s Spider-Man
- Arena Anthology 4
- Arena Anthology 3
- Arena Anthology 2
- Arena Anthology 1
- Edge of Eternities
- Alchemy Edge of Eternities
- Edge of Eternities Commander
- Final Fantasy
- Final Fantasy
- Pioneer Anthology 1

That’s the last 12 released sets since Dragonstorm. What’s going on in the lore these days?
 
The enfranchised players HATE and I mean loath the UB. They have almost all left the game or are now playing Premodern

I know dozens of enfranchised players, some who love UB, some who don't, but I have yet to hear from one who left the game since. You are, again, making a generalized statement that does not represent reality. Even the data supports this, as MaRo revealed that even among the most enfranchised players, a majority likes UB.

And if you turn your back on the players who gave you everything you have... then you are the villain, no?

No. You are a company trying to sell a card game. They don't owe these players anything, if we are honest. When you bought a booster box of Invasion you don't get the moral right to have a say in future decsions, you just get a booster box of Invasion.

If you don't like UB don't buy it but stop this pathetic talk please. Vote with your wallet against some multi billion companies that are responsible for actual evil like destroying the environment or commiting animal cruelty or such. It's funny but also tiring to always read your posts where you act like you are Sophie Scholl fighting the Nazis, just because you don't want to have Gandalf in your card game lol.
 
Oh you continue. Let’s continue then.


I have yet to hear from one who left the game since.

This is called Projection Bias

It is a bias because it should be discarded. Everyone I know have stopped playing Magic except Premodern (which is Magic without WotC) because of Universes Beyond. This is also projection bias.

Trustworthy sources of store owners conclude that 40 % of existing fan base have stopped coming to local game stores since the introduction of UB. And the number is even higher if you compare to pre Covid which is a more fair comparison since you’ll otherwise give UB the advantage of the natural Covid dip. According to Wizards the number is only 9 % but I don’t know where they get that number from. They haven’t been trustworthy lately.


If you don't like UB don't buy it but stop this pathetic talk please. Vote with your wallet against some multi billion companies that are responsible for actual evil like destroying the environment or commiting animal cruelty or such. It's funny but also tiring to always read your posts where you act like you are Sophie Scholl fighting the Nazis, just because you don't want to have Gandalf in your card game lol.

No I don’t think I will. And you can simply ignore my messages if you think I am just some random guy on the internet with a loud mouth.

It isn’t pathetic just because you people say so. You can laugh all you want but I am strictly telling the objective truth. You might feel the need to take me down because I sound cocky when I am right but that doesn’t make me wrong. I have seen this before. I have been on the other side. Listen and learn. You might want to live your life with your eyes closed. I have experience enough to share it with you.

Wizards have tried to change their player base, this much we know to be truth with 100 % certainty. When they had their annual ordinary board meeting and decided to five double their annual revenue it was easy to understand what they meant. Funny thing is, of course, that they have actually lost 37 % profit since 2023 comparison due to Universes Beyond. We are still locked in for 5 additional years with UB.

And please don’t put words into my mouth again again again. I haven’t mentioned the nazis.

That should finally settle the matter. Move along if you still have nothing intelligent to add and only want to call me pathetic.

Someone can of course still comment all their knowledge about what has happened in the lore or storyline since Dragonstorm. I have fallen off and cannot see almost any story through the last 12 sets. You guys want to fill us in?
 
okay it's definitely time to end this conversation this is absurd

I am not the one continuing it.

And it isn’t absurd just because it’s outside your normal scope. This is how companies operate when they get big enough and we are the only ones who can do something about it.

I will reply everyone who writes directly to me.
 
Once you have finished educating us about UB can you teach us how Denmark conquered racism?

Oh you guys are continuing.

You have forfeited the right to complain when talks continue for a long time in the future. No “Can an admin join in here?” or “Can we move on please?” Not from you!

Anyone else wants to say something personal? Anyone new who wants to chip in?
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Okay, I'm no mod, but that's quite enough of that everyone.

Velrun, you have a very strong opinion, which you clearly view as the one and only truth, but it's all hearsay from either side. I believe you when you say attendance has dropped over where you are, but we have actually had an increase of Commander players where I live, so we'll just have to chalk that up to regional differences. I know for a fact that there are old school players who have started playing in the 90's that are actively playing and enjoying UB sets over here, so you can't just make blanket statements about all old school players hating UB. It's simply untrue. Fact is that UB is highly divisive, but it's time you came down from your high horse and just respected other people's opinions without calling them noobs or WotC's evil lackey's in so many words.

Conversely, there's no need to belittle Velrun for his opinions on the matter. Engaging with it in a dismissive way is just a way to continue the negative spiral this conversation has fallen into.

I think we can just agree to disagree here and move on. Since this is an UB thread, I suggest we keep the negative comments on UB to a minimum and just let the people that want to enjoy this set enjoy spoiler season. We can grumble about UB in general in a separate thread if people are so inclined.
 
I've been following Usman's Cube writings for about 15 years and he's always been one of my favorite voices on the format, but I got the deepest pit in my stomach reading his latest article -- which was overall great and I broadly found myself nodding along with it, can't wait for him to share the post-playtest version in a week or so.

The issue was during the discussion of Earthbender Ascension. I had been surprised by how high it was on his list: 9th on his preliminary top 10, and one of only three top 10 cards I hadn't already slotted into my list. It was the only one of his top 10 cards that was basically off my radar. Anyways, he said this:

This plays like a Sutina that can’t block when it’s first cast - a respectable cube card on its own - but it trades the land-bounce ability for a built-in Retreat to Kazandu that can also grant trample, which is great when your large landfall threats get chump-blocked. Because the effect is split between the animated land and the enchantment, you don’t lose everything if the 2/2 dies to a Shock: the land still animates and you can continue building toward Retreat to Kazandu.

I love Sutina, Speaker of the Tajuru. I think it's pretty underrated in the Cube community, like so many other J25 cards that got overlooked due to the timing, the deluge of spoilers all at once, and the exclusively anime-styled art. I finally traded out my beautiful Portal Wood Elves for the card that had been in my list since the neat play patterns Sutina offers. She has fairly simple text, but whether it's as simple as getting an extra landfall trigger and +1/+1 counter for your Bristly Bill, Spine Sower or you're throwing Sutina into a sure death to pick up your Boseiju, Who Endures to get rid of an otherwise-unbeatable artifact, there's a lot to do with her.



But she's only in ~900 Cubes on Cube Cobra, and most of them seem to be rarity-restricted. Earthbender Ascension, I imagine, will be in many more than that, and that's for the reasons Usman says: it's even more flexible. It's better at distributing +1/+1 counters (albeit not as quickly) and it's significantly more resilient. Earthbending is very cool, and the more cards with it, the better it likely will be and the more your drafters will lean into actually trying them out.

Here's where I got a little sick to my stomach: I was reviewing all the earthbending cards in my testing and maybe lists, and thought, yeah, definitely should get Ba Sing Se in there, and maybe I can just play Toph, Greatest Earthbender over Toph, Hardheaded Teacher even though I'm absolutely loath to add a card without reminder text, particularly on such a multi-faceted mechanic. I was excited about potentially slotting in some more cards that I had kept in the maybe board like:



(Earthshape in particular has the same problem as Toph and would already be in my Cube if not for its lack of reminder text)

But then I realized something else: I've been really struggling to sort my Selesnya section this year. Aerith, Last Ancient has surprised me as useful with the amount of life gain I've got running around, but it still reads like a commander card and is a clear step down in overall power from my other 4-drops in both green and white. Danitha, New Benalia's Light is really cool, but I don't think she's quite supported enough. I'm the only one of my players who's probably going to ever cast Knight of the Reliquary. Trostani, Three Whispers has been excellent for its goal of exciting our newer/more casual players and making it easier for them to win, but they're fundamentally uninteresting. The fact that Kellan, Daring Traveler is one of the WG cards I'm most satisfied with probably surprises me just as much as it does you.

And then I remembered something:



Damn, that card is really good with earthbending. What a perfect one-card build-around that inspires a deck that wouldn't necessarily exist ortherwise. This is the kind of card I love to have in my gold slots!

And thus I was filled with dread. Somehow this feels worse than Spider-UK being in my Cube, and I think that's because 1) it's full art only right now and 2) it reminds me...we're getting a whole set of Marvel superheroes in the near future. Just when I'm feeling OK in the moment about UB, too.
 
If Sam Altman comes out with an algorithm that automatically re-renders these Marvel and Nickelodeon ads into Magic cards, I promise I'll shit on his grave N minus 1 times, where N is the number of days I outlive him. But it has to be trained on public domain art only! Otherwise: there will be no deceleration of the desecration via defecation.

And that's a promise you can take to the bank, if you want.
 
Oh you continue. Let’s continue then.
let's please never continue this. it's funny how whenever there's a multi page slapfight on this otherwise slowly moving forum it's in response to something you said and drilled down on. do you just enjoy trolling?

here is my - an enfranchised fucking Legacy player and member of this community for a decade - defense of UB! since i want it on the record.

the further back you go the more Magic is a story about two planeswalkers summoning dudes from all over the canonical multiverse of planes etc. Dominaria, and also not-Dominaria (but sometimes even Earth, Our Planet, And Its Real History). there has always been an element of the absurd in the stories told by the boardstate - from something as simple as "I equip River Boa with Sword of Fire and Ice" to whatever kind of narrative you can spin to describe what a Storm player is doing.

there are lots of planes. the god-wizards we are ostensibly playing the game can access any or all of them. Is it so strange that we can visit lord of the rings world when almost all modern high fantasy is based on Tolkien's work anyway? Stranger than Iraq? YMMV on an individual set-by-set basis, but frankly that is true of the first-party-designed, original-IP sets as well (as Velrun notes!)

the 40K set had amazing designs. so did LotR. Avatar spoilers were received well. the UB cards are highly collectible (that they print money is a similar thing but not the same) while offering us revisits to some almost-deprecated old mechanics at a 2020s power level. the packs are too expensive but fuck, so are collector boosters. it's just more Magic to me.
 
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