General Fight Club

[Chris Taylor]

I have an epic fight to settle, friends.



I like that Mutavault reads so much cleaner than Factory with it's weird tap ability. I also like that Mutavault is a Goblin, that's relevant for Goblin Trashmaster and friends in the core and for a couple of random typal cards in the occasionals.
I like that Mishra's Factory is an artifact, that's nice for Arcbound Ravager, Darksteel Juggernaut and some occasionals but most artifact payoffs don't care that much, because it's only an artifact when activated.

Mutavault gets the nod for me for fitting in with a million little things, and not blocking as a 3/3
That gets people sometimes.

 

[Brad]

The idea that Mutavault could become a popular token soon would make me want to wait before deciding, but I also like Mutavault a little more because it's cleaner.

 

[ravnic]

I would argue that the fact, that Mutavault tokens might become a popular token soon is actually more upside than downside? It makes it more widely known what the card does then? One less card for people to read?

Anyway, I decided to go with Mutavault and to dismiss factory because of it's weird tap ability. I always had to explain newer players that this just meant it could block as a 3/3, because it could block and then tap to pump itself. That was on one hand a valueable lesson - creatures don't tap for blocking - but as my cube gets played by more and more people, I can't be certain that all experienced players would be so kind to explain that or remind the newbie of it. And I think I'd rather make sure that this feel bad situation can't come up.

 

[Brad]

I would argue that the fact, that Mutavault tokens might become a popular token soon is actually more upside than downside? It makes it more widely known what the card does then? One less card for people to read?

Yeah. That's what I meant. It might become a more known thing very soon or it might be on only one new card.

Factory can definitely be a bit of a "gotcha!"

 

[Aston]

I've run both for ages because I also couldn't decide, and I don't think it has to be a question of one or the other. I've liked having two of that effect around.

 

[Nemo]

Since Repulse was mentioned in another thread, and I've been back and forth on bounce effects, I'm curious what people think of simple bounce spells.



There's also the modal route. I feel like there's room to create a really slick modal bounce spell that can become a cube staple.


Obviously a lot of people are running creatures like Man-o'-War instead of a spell. There's also these at instant speed:


I really like Unsummon for nostalgia reasons and also because it it's simple and seems like it doesn't offer much value for a card, but in the right situations it can do a lot of different useful things. I support some prowess/spells and tempo stuff. I'm going to switch from Unsummon to Just the Wind since I have a good amount of madness and discard, and we'll see if I can tempt anybody to put it in their deck.

Do you run bounce spells in your cube? Did you abandon bounce because it wasn't doing enough, and just run a different instant like counterspells or draw cantrips?

 

[ravnic]

I love bounce. In my core module I'm running these three:



Jellyfish and Ninja are just two classics I adore and will probably still never ever cut. Unnerving Grasp is a cool side grade, as being a spell, milling and manifesting have some synergistic applications, but you can't blink it.

Here are some more in my occasionals module:



These also rock, I think.

Noteably, I don't really have any cheap, instant speed effects. I love Unsummon but blue is more of a control color for me.

 

[Seeker]

I love Vapor Snag (you should play that over Unsummon 100% in the dark for sure) but it still isn't really... "good enough" to tempt people into playing it.

I'm high-power enough that modal stuff is where it's at for me. Never cutting Brazen Borrower or Sink into Stupor, plus some variety of Man-o'-War effect (waiting on a non-double faced Jill, Shiva's Dominant that isn't as ugly as Spider-Byte, Web Warden... gonna be waiting a while, at this rate.)

Currently also in my cube, but you didn't mention:

 

[LadyMapi]

What if Peel from Reality got a nasty upgrade if villain is tapped out? I love this thing, and it's a shame that the rest of its cycle didn't age nearly as well.

 

[Erik Twice]

vs

Like many, the release of Enduring Curiosity was a good excuse to cut the frail and multicoloured Edric in favour of a monocolour, more broadly playable card. Yet, I'm growing unsure if it was the right choice. Enduring Curiosity is good, but it's expensive enough that it feels like a luxury in the decks that want to run it. That is, at 4 mana you really have to think hard if you want the effect while at 3 it pulls you into the colours.

What do you think?

 

[Rusje]

Enduring is great in draw go, edric in tempo.

 

[Nanonox]

I remember the great Grillo posting about how important these types of cards are for Simic, as a way to maximize your mana dorks and give the color pair a clear direction to go. So I am leaning towards both. Two slots to signal what you are doing, however, since none of your dorks combined have more than 0 power, neither card works alongside them!
For that reason, I’d keep Curiosity who is monocolored and more versatile and add (replacing Edric)



This one doesn’t care about power and opens up artifact synergies. At 2 mana you can get it down before you spam creatures which is nice.

 

[PyreDream]

What if Peel from Reality got a nasty upgrade if villain is tapped out? I love this thing, and it's a shame that the rest of its cycle didn't age nearly as well.

Withdraw is the Dark Souls of This Town Ain't Big Enough.

 

[Seeker]

honestly while I always appreciate a good Brushwagg, the actual sixth member of the cycle is strong-candidate-for-worst-card-ever-printed Rhystic Cave ($8 foil btw. what on earth.)

 

[PyreDream]

Rhystic Cave is either a better Rishadan Port or a better City of Brass

 

[Seeker]

As I once saw someone describe it, Rhystic Cave's Oracle text is "Tap:".

(it's either a worse Rishadan Port, because in return for your 1 mana discount they pick the land and it's never Maze of Ith, or it's a better City of Brass, which is not a gamble I'm willing to take)

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

vs

Let's assume the graveyard payoff is delve and reanimator. Which of these would be better for supporting that?

 

[Schafkurai]

vs

Let's assume the graveyard payoff is delve and reanimator. Which of these would be better for supporting that?

The Rat-Squirrel was respectable in its limited environment, the Phantom not so much. I like the etb + defensive body better!

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

The Rat-Squirrel was respectable in its limited environment, the Phantom not so much. I like the etb + defensive body better!

Yeah I kind of had that realization as soon as I posted. The phantom might just eat a bolt and have done nothing, the duo guarantees two cards in the yard, and is a much better board stabilizer

 

[Schafkurai]

Yeah I kind of had that realization as soon as I posted. The phantom might just eat a bolt and have done nothing, the duo guarantees two cards in the yard, and is a much better board stabilizer

I think the main point for the phantom is, that it's a decent card if your cube likes Wind Drakes. Otherwise the upside is not enough and 2/2 fliers for 3 are mediocre in most limited formats nowadays.

 

[Seeker]

I'd be inclined to pick a non-deathtouch version of the body, frankly. Expecting to see the Gurmag Anglers and Hooting Mandrills of the world on the other side, you don't want your enabler to also trade with the groundbound Delve idiots, right?

Assuming you want
1) respectable body (not Stitcher's Supplier)
2) just mill, not also a free card (not Undead Butler / Eerie Soultender)
there's options, albeit mostly at worse rates than 3/2 for 3:


The lifegain ones might be too good, we've kind of discovered over the years that lifegain is basically a card too. I did like Carrion Grub a lot more than I expected in retail - surprisingly easy to get it to at least 3 power and get a discount on Thraben Purebloods and often it gets bigger.