General Fight Club

[Nanonox]

Sadly only three cards that say "noncreature spell" around my power level.

or ?

Also, if you stretch your definition of prowess payoff



In my mind for spells matters to really pop, cantrips are essential to allow you to chain spells together. With your current build you have two in White. I'd like to suggest



This is a role player for many archetypes, highly recommend. There aren't a ton of these effects in White, so I think it's worth playing them all. Maybe Scout's Warning is worth a slot too.

There are also cards that allow you to recast your spells over and over, keeping the prowess triggers flowing. You have a few of these, I also like



Return a land for a landfall trigger. Bounce an adventure creature. Return a "Living Weapon" artifact. And so on.

 

[ravnic]

I really appreciate that post, but I am not sure this is about quantity in support. I feel like it's enough that I can, irl or on cc, always force prowess and get a decent to great deck. However, it seems to be either not convincing enough – maybe people don't expect white spellslinger – or the payoffs are considered generally useful, because them – especially Seeker of the Way and Ojutai Exemplars – show up in random lists with 7 noncreature spells.

Maybe this isn't even a problem. I have a deck that's good, players just seem to not see it or want it. But it's there. And the support is flexible enough to show up elsewhere.

I decided to add not only Ministrant of Obligation, but also cut Unsettling Twins to move this card to the core:

 

[MilesOfficial]

Aligned Heart is great, and from the same set, I love Rally the Monastery.



It basically rewards you like these other cards do, and can give you two more prowess dudes as a prize.

 

[PyreDream]

I really appreciate that post, but I am not sure this is about quantity in support. I feel like it's enough that I can, irl or on cc, always force prowess and get a decent to great deck. However, it seems to be either not convincing enough – maybe people don't expect white spellslinger – or the payoffs are considered generally useful, because them – especially Seeker of the Way and Ojutai Exemplars – show up in random lists with 7 noncreature spells.

Maybe this isn't even a problem. I have a deck that's good, players just seem to not see it or want it. But it's there. And the support is flexible enough to show up elsewhere.

I decided to add not only Ministrant of Obligation, but also cut Unsettling Twins to move this card to the core:

If going the second-spell-matters route, I quite like Clarion Spirit, and Homestead Courage helps you do the thing alongside Honor.

Something I learned from supporting second-spells in the Adventure Cube is that the self-bounce creatures (most critically, the cheap flash ones like Sunpearl Kirin and Zephyr Sentinel, and to a lesser extent the cheap ones like Nurturing Pixie, Kor Skyfisher/Fear of Isolation) were important to help rebuy adventures, basically drawing you an extra card (the adventure). The flash ones just allow you to double spell on your opponent's turn. I like the suggestion of Murmuration as a sort of weaker Monastery Mentor too.

 

[ravnic]

It's a core module slot, hybrids don't need to be high picks but should be decent playables in as many archetypes as possible.

Themes in black and/or green:
Selfmill
Sacrifice
Tokens
Lands
Reanimator
Madness
Ninjutsu

 

[LadyMapi]

Of the two, Long Feng feels more likely to actually do the cool thing, especially since you're on 15 Prismatic Vistas.

 

[ravnic]

In addition to Merfolk Looter I want one other cheap, repeatable instant-speed looter.

I am currently on Enclave Cryptologist. It's a sidegrade to merfolk looter. You have to spend your first turn to cast it and your second turn to level up, but then you get to start to loot right away. It's pretty good, but I am not in love with it. It's also the only level up creature in my cube, with the exception of one occasional that I could easily cut too.

Muse Seeker is the new temptation. It can loot even more than once a turn, but it's also not guaranteed to loot once a turn. Something like a green-blue self-mill deck might have trouble doing that. I like that it cantrips from big spells, but that doesn't matter that much. Also, it's not really free; you still would have to cast an instant if you want to madness out circular logic. Even though it has some potential in Izzet, Azorius, and Dimir decks, it's probably still the worst of the bunch.

And then there is Thought Courier. If merfolk looter is my ideal card, it might seem like the best choice here, but I really like sticking to singleton and going this close to a functional reprint – non-goblin creature types don't really matter in my cube – feels kind of wrong.

 

[alvoi]

Okay, I don't know your cube much, but I agree with you that Muse Seeker looks different than what you want: if the goal is to have a creature that can be activated at any time to loot (in order to discard Circular Logic, for example) then it's not what you want.

I was going to suggest Looter il-Kor, which I like a lot, but it has the same problem of looting only in the combat damage step.

Then I would go with the Thought Courier. I know it is a functional reprint, but that's still sticking to singleton. My idea with functional reprints is that Wizards would never print a functional reprint of Thoughtseize because they don't want people to play 8 copies in constructed formats, but if they print three different versions of Llanowar Elves this means they are okay with the idea of having 12 in a same deck, and so we can be okay with having 3 in the same cube.

BUT... there is another option. Lore Broker. A bit more risky maybe, because if the opponent also has discard synergies you could be giving an advantage to them, but I think being able to activate it when you want still is a big upside, and in a cube night probably the number of matchups where the opponent could exploit it is 1 or 2 of the 7 total. (But this also depends on the cube probably)

 

[Nanonox]

You don’t seem enamoured with these choices so I’ll throw in a suggestion



An old school classic that discards at instant speed, but trades the draw for board presence. Seems like it would fit the vibes of the CCC nicely and be unique enough to stand out from Merfolk Looter.

 

[TekLazar]

I'm also going to offer an alternative.

It's a Looter il-Kor that doesn't have the annoying shadow text, and draws in the late game.

is also sweet, but it's definitely not for everyone.

 

[ravnic]

Okay, I don't know your cube much, but I agree with you that Muse Seeker looks different than what you want: if the goal is to have a creature that can be activated at any time to loot (in order to discard Circular Logic, for example) then it's not what you want.

I was going to suggest Looter il-Kor, which I like a lot, but it has the same problem of looting only in the combat damage step.

Then I would go with the Thought Courier. I know it is a functional reprint, but that's still sticking to singleton. My idea with functional reprints is that Wizards would never print a functional reprint of Thoughtseize because they don't want people to play 8 copies in constructed formats, but if they print three different versions of Llanowar Elves this means they are okay with the idea of having 12 in a same deck, and so we can be okay with having 3 in the same cube.

BUT... there is another option. Lore Broker. A bit more risky maybe, because if the opponent also has discard synergies you could be giving an advantage to them, but I think being able to activate it when you want still is a big upside, and in a cube night probably the number of matchups where the opponent could exploit it is 1 or 2 of the 7 total. (But this also depends on the cube probably)

I have nostalgia for Lore Broker, but I don't even play it in my Ravnica Block Cube because I really don't like the idea of giving free loots to my opponent.

You are probably right, though, Thought Courier would be the best solution. And, just for my inner demons, it could be argued that they are not identical if I bring Metallic Mimic back ... which I was considering anyway, hmm.

You don’t seem enamoured with these choices so I’ll throw in a suggestion



An old school classic that discards at instant speed, but trades the draw for board presence. Seems like it would fit the vibes of the CCC nicely and be unique enough to stand out from Merfolk Looter.

I know it seems like a perfect fit and actually is probably. I got the Bouncer recommended before and have no real reason I'm still not playing it – except that I really don't like the art, lol.

I mean, Paolo Parente is easily one of my top 5 magic artists of all-time, he's done many pieces for og ravnica too. But this one is ... weird. I would cube it if the image had 25% less muscle mass

I'm also going to offer an alternative.

It's a Looter il-Kor that doesn't have the annoying shadow text, and draws in the late game.

is also sweet, but it's definitely not for everyone.

The rat doesn't work with instants like Circular Logic and Magus, as you said, is a little too specific.

 

[inscho]

Waterfront Bouncer is one of my favorite cards of all time. Make an alternative art proxy! The play patterns it brings to the table are worth it imo

 

[Humpty_Dumpty]

How does a dude that buff have the same stats as a squirrel?

 

[LadyMapi]

He's a gym bunny - those muscles are purely for show.

 

[TekLazar]

The show of, throwing Worldspine Wurm... out of the bar.

 

[ravnic]

How does a dude that buff have the same stats as a squirrel?

My thoughts exactly lol

 

[IanGitax]

Got to play this one at the prerelease and I feel like it’s going to be the standout cube card of the set. The fact that it doesn’t require you to exile the spell lets you pull all the kinds of shenanigans you can with [[Eternal Witness]] while having a much stronger body. Went off with [[Daydream]] a couple times to repeatedly trigger my leaves graveyard payoffs, and doubled up a [[Helping Hand]] to turn around a losing position. Now imagine what you could do with [[Ephemerate]] - Flicker it to cast another spell, use the rebound to cast [[Ephemerate]] again, repeat forever.

 

[Mown]

Rebound requires you to cast it from your hand.

 

[Erik Twice]

You don’t seem enamoured with these choices so I’ll throw in a suggestion



An old school classic that discards at instant speed, but trades the draw for board presence. Seems like it would fit the vibes of the CCC nicely and be unique enough to stand out from Merfolk Looter.

I cut my looters so that people were actually drawn more to Waterfront Bouncer and Duelist of the Mind lmao

 

[IanGitax]

Got to play this one at the prerelease and I feel like it’s going to be the standout cube card of the set. The fact that it doesn’t require you to exile the spell lets you pull all the kinds of shenanigans you can with [[Eternal Witness]] while having a much stronger body. Went off with [[Daydream]] a couple times to repeatedly trigger my leaves graveyard payoffs, and doubled up a [[Helping Hand]] to turn around a losing position. Now imagine what you could do with [[Ephemerate]] - Flicker it to cast another spell, use the rebound to cast [[Ephemerate]] again, repeat forever.

Whoops, this was supposed to be in the SOS thread.

 

[LadyMapi]

Clearly the looter that ravnic needs to look at is
(Moreso for the design than anything else. I just think it's neat!)

More seriously, what are your thoughts on ?

Also, a shoutout to if your format has ways to tap down your stuff for profit other than attacking.

 

[ravnic]

Blue interaction that's not a counterspell/bounce/stealing. Both feel almost too good for blue? I am usually not too conservative, but I believe blue should be bad at andwering resolved threats. Maybe I should just go back to Eaten by Piranhas? I like how the creepy merfolk interacts with blink/ninjutsu but I don't know, it's wordy. The aura is fun but it looks pushed next to even some of my non-blue removal, like Pacifism or Shock. Maybe I should just play Repulse or Time Ebb or just another counter spell?

Help me, I don't know what I want. I want mono blue to be possible (it currently feels very decent) but it should work being blue, not by suddenly having great removal.

Edit: I'll throw in another contendee that could help blue fight fast creature decks:


Edit 2: what about this thing?



Works with blink and ninjutsu. Can be card advantage and a blocker to stabilize against aggro or just a mediocre blue removal spell I guess.

 

[Nanonox]

I like Piranhas here. Flash feels very Blue and it isn’t too strong. In that vein of removal I alsolike



Flash is nice, especially in Blue and it has a cool dream to chase. 3 mana is a lot for the effect, but it is sure to be memorable at times.

?

More of a cantrip with a little delay. Maybe you want hard removal.

 

[TekLazar]

I'm on

for my bounce creatures. Nevermaker I think would be too slow for my peasantish environment, and I'm a battlecruiser slow cube. I agree that sleep with the fishes is probably good. I think there's another angle for you that you could play, and it's an upgrade that I have been staring at since Bigfin hasn't seen a lot of play even though it's probably good enough.


edit: my brain meant to say, eaten by piranhas, but sleep with the fishes is an interesting thing my brain pulled out of the abyss too...

 

[ravnic]

Hmm, I don't think more expensive bounce is what I need here. Essentially I am looking for a card that helps to make mono blue and green/blue fit against creature-based decks. I do have a relatively strong counterspell suite as well as two stealing effects in blue in Welcome to the Fold and Invoke the Winds. I also try finishers that can come down before the super late game and help stabilize and take over the board, like Talrand, Sky Summoner.

I just want one more slot dedicated to helping these decks have a shot against resolved creatures. And while Aether Snare or Venser are probably not exactly what I am looking for here, your post made me think of two cards that have a high mana value but can actually be cast for cheap. These are instants too so they work with the spell theme and they would be primarily for these grindy blue-green blue decks that I am looking to support here. Maybe one of these two is what I really want:



I like that Swat Away can target any creature (or spell) not only the creature that's attacking you but Bury in Books is the more flavorful version and it can get rid of the creature for longer, guaranteed.