Sets (KHM) Kaldheim Testing/Includes Thread

This is a testing/includes thread. Post pictures or a text list using /c with what cards you plan to include and what cards you plan to test.
Including:
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Including if I Open:
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Testing:
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Kaldheim has a lot of unique tools for Cubers, but the set's heavy tribal component makes most of the cards awkward to use. It's been interesting seeing the community reaction to this set- some people think the set is insanely power crept, others think it's mostly bad cards. I think it's somewhere in the middle- I find a lot of the new stuff to be exciting but not quite right for me. I think my testing list would be longer if I included Foretell cards. I think a high density of that mechanic is needed to keep the hidden information element relevant. I'm not sure there are enough cards that are of the correct power level for my cube to keep the guessing game element alive. Doomskar and Starnheim Unleashed pique my interest, but I'd still have to run a bunch of other Foretell cards to make it unclear which was Foretold. I'm not sure I have the space and desire to do that at this time. That said, the mechanic is pretty wide open, so perhaps it actually is correct for my environment.

What are your plans for this set?
-GT
 
I have a very small number of incl-

Oh, who am I kidding? Foretell looks like it was designed for Afternoon Delight. I also really like the "do things when you cast multiple spells per turn" cards.

Two Drops:


Three Drops:


Seven Drops:


Maybe:
 
Velrun only wants one thing from Kaldheim and it's fucking disgusting!



Glorious Protector, Iron Verdict, Kaya's Onslaught, Doomskar, Starnheim Unleashed, Mystic Reflection, Saw It Coming, Behold the Multiverse, Ravenform, Alrun's Epiphany, Dream Devourer, Vengeful Reaver, Jarl of the Forsaken, Poison the Cup, Rise of the Dread Marn, Skull Raid Tergrid's Shadow, Demon Bolt, Crush the Weak, Sarulf's Packmate, Battle Mammoth, Mammoth Growth, Scorn Effigy

(It is very fitting that you can't see which cards I've /c'ed because they are almost the foretell cards. They're literally face down right now, lol :))

Also I love Sagas so I'm adding a few of those.
 
I have 2 clear includes and then a bunch of testing cards:

Includes

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I really like Boast for my MP cube as it encourages attacking and makes early drops relevant late. First strike is surprisingly relevant at both attacking and blocking and making dragons is just amazing.
Kardur is an ETB goad basically which is a great mechanic for breaking a stalled board. The stats are decent and the combat dying text is very strong. Rakdos can be very aggressive and this helps as a signpost.

Testing

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Once again, I think Boast is a good fit for me, but the creature is a little small and the token too. Hopefully, Usher of the Fallen will still be impactful enough.
I like the Gods, but the problem here is the MDFC. I am sure they play well, but they are wordy and complicated. Will have to see with my playgroup. I hope they are open to trying them as the equipment from Halvar, the hate-bear that is Reidane (snow trinket text though ><) and the early/late combo of Valki are interesting.

Not much for me, but that is more than fine. I can take a relative break and figure out the previous sets.
 
does blue really want to be blasting itself in the face for potentially a good chunk of damage? In cube it's trivial for U to go into other colors for creature removal. What U spell is this supplanting in a way that we are really building U's place in cube?
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
does blue really want to be blasting itself in the face for potentially a good chunk of damage? In cube it's trivial for U to go into other colors for creature removal. What U spell is this supplanting in a way that we are really building U's place in cube?
Yes, I think it does want that for one mana. You use it as a one mana removal spell when you are going to get hit by that creature anyway, and probably more than once. It also removes utility creatures at a premium price. Don't sit on this aura, I have a suspicion there's a greater chance this turns out too powerful for most of our cubes than too weak!
 
I would have to commit to rebuilding my archetype frameworks to see where it would have a place. I guess in UG it's decent. All other color combos have more beneficial removal in the partner color or the blue really wants to be offering counterspells, not semi-removal.
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
I would have to commit to rebuilding my archetype frameworks to see where it would have a place. I guess in UG it's decent. All other color combos have more beneficial removal in the partner color or the blue really wants to be offering counterspells, not semi-removal.
I don't know what you mean by semi-removal. Would you call Arrest semi-removal just because it's an aura? Because this is basically a one mana Arrest. It's super efficient, and honestly at this mana cost it's usually better than Murder. It's no Swords to Plowshares, but we can't expect all, or any, cards to be on the same level as StP. This still allows you to efficiently get rid of a threat while keeping up Counterspell mana.
 
Arrest is also semi-removal, yes. If the creature has a passive ability, it still procs. If it counts towards a creature count, it still counts. If the opponent can exploit the creature for a sacrifice, it can still be exploited. If it can be untapped or returned to their hand, it can still be recast or attack. Etc. etc. It's only stopping two aspects of the cards presence on the field rather than every aspect (bar reanimation). In many cubes the other colors have one and two mana removal that isn't StP, but is still going to be more effective overall. Ultimate Price, Lightning Bolt (or even Shock) and their ilk.

I'm not seeing many people running vendetta is what I'm saying, and sure, it being in U helps decks that Vendetta doesn't, but it's not an end-all for U decks.
 
I think I would maybe give it more praise if it tapped as well as turning it into a 0/1 with no abilities, I think sigh has some good points in terms of the cards draw backs. I'm still really happy about getting more blue removal, though. I consider bounce spells to be "removal" as well, seems like we're getting into very hairy semantic territory about what is and isn't removal. Is pacifism semi-removal? Is burn semi-removal? Is doom blade semi-removal?
 
It's a term I just made up for that post. Basically does the creature stay on the battlefield available to the opponent for their use in 1 or more secondary effects? Doom Blade and Lightning Bolt are already a very well known type of removal, which is "conditional removal". Complete removal that only works under conditional circumstances. So "semi" is kinda the flip of "conditional". Works always, but doesn't completely get the creature off the battlefield. A spell could be both in theory.
 
There are mostly cards that I find to be at least interesting, but I don't really feel the need to include most of them. Anyway, I'll just list them:

Snakeskin Veil - better than Feat of Resistance most of the time. Green has a lot of good heroic/spells enablers.

Usher of the Fallen Fearless Liberator Dragonkin Berserker Tuskeri Firewalker Eradicator Valkyrie - Boast creatures I find interesting/testworthy. I really don't know how they'll play, maybe Usher and Liberator are great for pressuring early, maybe Dragonkin and Firewalker are better because they're even better in lategame. The Valkyrie is also good for aristocrats, and maybe even relevant for one more card that likes to mill angels lol

Scorn Effigy Sarulf's Packmate Vengeful Reaper Glorious Protector Crush the Weak Dwarven Reinforcements Demon Bolt Saw it Coming Behold the Multiverse Cosmos Charger - now Foretell is similar to Boast: I don't know how the mechanic will play. maybe it will allow nice sequencing and rewarding planning a few turns ahead, which sounds pretty wonderful to me, but maybe it will end up too slow. It really depends. Glorious Protector also is another card for the Flash archetype and Blink in my list. Might end up too strong, reminds me somewhat of Restoration Angel, which isn't very fun to play against.

Bloodsky Berserker Clarion Spirit Firja, Judge of Valor - the first two most likely will find their way into the list, Firja might be too weak for a multicolour card. It plays nicely with Foretell, but there are just very few cards that want you to play at least 2 spells and aren't uninteresting.

Vega, the Watcher - Foretell and Flashback profit from this - wish we would've gotten an Rx version with Burning Vengeance attached to it.

Renegade Reaper - selfmill on a reasonable body? Yes please! Condition for gaining 4 life will most likely never be met, which is a letdown. Gorging Vulture might be better, that extra toughness is very helpful, though.

Weigh Down Stalwart Valkyrie - conditional removal/beater. I like. BW does care about the graveyard.

Pyre of Heroes Bloodline Pretender Resplendent Marshal Basalt Ravager Crippling Fear - Tribal payoffs that aren't parasitic! interesting version of Pod, another playable changeling (which will get especially interesting if we'll get more party cards in the future), a tribal pumper, a FTK that's not way too good, and a removal that could be way too good.

Sigrid, God-Favored - another white Flash card! might actually be too strong, just like the angel.

Maja, Bretagard Protector - Although she's without flying, I like the hymn attached to her in comparison to Emeria Angel. Also, it might very well be that I'll have to cut Angel of Invention to open up for other cards, so this might be the replacement. Not sure if I want to end up with W in lands matter.

Kardur's Vicious Return Showdown of the Skalds - I love Sagas, but I find it quite hard to find some that really fit my powerlevel. KVR screams for synergy, which is something I really like, and it packs a lot in one card. I just don't really like that it enables itself with II and III. Reanimation with Haste is sweet, though. SotS is the kind of conditional draw I like attached to my red spells (nerfing card draw as a whole). It also rewards you for thinking ahead, which I really like.
 
I'm going to add 9 cards this time. Not sure if this high number is related to me rebuilding my cube during spoiler season, but I didn't have that much new cards I wated to add with release since Eldraine.

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Raptor and spirit are just really nice 1- and 2-drops for aggro, that also have some synergies with archetypes (equipment/tokens etc.), the spirit also works with adventures and stuff like Battle Screech. Sigrid goes into a removal slot. I hope she is fine in a lower powered cube, else I'm bringing back Fairgrounds Warden. Starnheim Courser is just a nice evasive body that makes all your equipment and aure based removals cheaper - what's not to love? I feel similar thing towards Inga. She's a nice blink target and helps bleeding blue into sacrifice/token strategies. Also, how gorgeous does that card look? The Hammer is my red equipment of choice now and I hope it will play a little better than it reads. Kardur seem like a nice sacrifice payoff that causes mayhem! Maja is an ideal blend between the landfall and token themes already prominent in these two colors to varying degrees. Probably an instant staple.

I can't deny that the visual appearance of a card influences my decision making. No coincidence that Kaldheim and Eldraine got a bunch of showcase frames in my cube.

Edit. Oops, I forgot the sword. Well, it's the second best options for a white equipment at my power level after ancestral blade. But I am going to replace it as soon as I get a better option.
 
Can we talk about that red counterspell!

I want to like it but I don't really get what the 'choose 1,2,3 at random' thing is doing here other than trying to make it feel 'more red' (Despite "make that thing you were doing actually some other thing" is perfectly in flavor for red chaos warp for example)
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Can we talk about that red counterspell!

I want to like it but I don't really get what the 'choose 1,2,3 at random' thing is doing here other than trying to make it feel 'more red' (Despite "make that thing you were doing actually some other thing" is perfectly in flavor for red chaos warp for example)

It's to prevent your opponent from scrying in response to rig their deck. Unfortunately, it makes the card way, way harder to parse.
 
If it was in the upcoming D&D set, it might read "Counter target spell. Its controller mills 1d3 cards, then..." It's not a huge difference in word count, but it improves readability.

I think I'd like that change. It's extra terminology, but it's pretty known and easy to learn.
 
Scry defense does make the effect make sense, although Now I’m wondering why it’s not just “shuffle”.

card is cool though, definitely testing it and surprised it wasn’t a preview card for somewhere limited focused
 

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Scry defense does make the effect make sense, although Now I’m wondering why it’s not just “shuffle”.

card is cool though, definitely testing it and surprised it wasn’t a preview card for somewhere limited focused

This wording is just a less time-consuming way of saying shuffle.
 
Do people enjoy having the discussions spread out between several Kaldheim threads?

I am a person who needs structure. I don't understand the 'rules' of this new incentive. Are we transfering all discussions from the spoiler thread to the Testing/Includes thread when the entire set is spoiled? In that case, just tell me so I can rest my structure-craving mind :)
 
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