General Looking to reboot. Need some advice.

[Hathaway]

I've built a few cubes over the past several years, and I actually enjoyed one of them.

Some recent interest by a few friends has gotten me excited about putting a cube together, but I really need some guidance to keep the experience fun and balanced. I have started a few cubes and had a lot of fun, then added more powerful cards and broken ramp and turned my local crew away. What I want to do is keep the next cube low power but interesting. I have a few ideas that I want to build around:

1. All original border cards (which I know might limit the design space)
2. No broken combos that might ruin someone's experience
3. I don't want to kill midrange decks, but I don't want every match to be 3-4 color goodstuff piles either
4. Not sure if reanimation or tinker can be inserted into such a format
5. My regular draft nights were 4-6 people, but I also played a lot of 1vs1 grid draft, so a smaller cube (270?)

Could someone point me in the direction of some design theory to keep me from breaking this from the start? Things I worry most about are understanding how to balance removal against aggro and how to not let control murder the interesting midrange decks.

Thanks for any help. I will add the cube list once I get a working shell together.

 

[Brad]

I've built a few cubes over the past several years, and I actually enjoyed one of them.

Some recent interest by a few friends has gotten me excited about putting a cube together, but I really need some guidance to keep the experience fun and balanced. I have started a few cubes and had a lot of fun, then added more powerful cards and broken ramp and turned my local crew away. What I want to do is keep the next cube low power but interesting. I have a few ideas that I want to build around:

If your crew enjoys retail draft, remember that the power level can be really low and still fun.

1. All original border cards (which I know might limit the design space)

Here's new cards in old frame.

2. No broken combos that might ruin someone's experience

Not much to say here. Just don't add them. This is fairly typical.

3. I don't want to kill midrange decks, but I don't want every match to be 3-4 color goodstuff piles either

If you don't put in crazy fixing like 3x fetch 3x dual or something, this isn't a problem. The rewards from a consistent mana base are almost always greater than the rewards from running more cards. Constructed decks have access to amazing fixing and aren't constantly 5 colors.

4. Not sure if reanimation or tinker can be inserted into such a format

You totally can, but you have to be careful with your targets. Keep them a bit weaker like Meteor Golem or Maelstrom Colossus that's stronger when cast than cheated. This may be a bit deceiving, however, to some drafters who expect Tinker to be broken. Like it usually is.

5. My regular draft nights were 4-6 people, but I also played a lot of 1vs1 grid draft, so a smaller cube (270?)

No real reason to not have a 360 card list just in case. A lot of people cut a color to grid draft. I shifted my color pie heavily towards black to grid draft and that works, too.

Could someone point me in the direction of some design theory to keep me from breaking this from the start?

Not really that likely. You can do a double check on this by checking each MV and seeing the best and the worst card in them. If they're wildly different power levels (Tarmogoyf vs Grizzly Bears), then that's a problem. If they're at least somewhat comparable (Goyf vs Scavenging Ooze or Bears vs Leaf Gilder), then you're probably fine. Then make sure the 3s aren't crazy better than the 2s, etc. As long as you don't go nuts, you'll be alright. If you do, someone can tell you they disliked it and you can cut whatever card or cards caused that.

Things I worry most about are understanding how to balance removal against aggro and how to not let control murder the interesting midrange decks.

Lot of people here keep board wipes at 5+ MV. In another thread, we found that most of us run 2-2.5% board wipes.
Here's a thread on removal: https://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/removal-density.3480/

Thanks for any help. I will add the cube list once I get a working shell together.

Sounds good! Welcome!

 

[sigh]

Making sure to incorporate some sorcery-speed removal is one good strategy to help balance the interaction between control and other decks. It allows decks to utilize haste, auras, equipment, and other stuff like that safely (for at least one turn), and increases the tension for the control deck, having to spend mana on their turn to remove the threat.

 

[blacksmithy]

a lot of what you’re asking for is going to be found within the “fairmax” cube design philosophy, except for the part where you don’t want a bunch of 3ish color midrange decks. i agree with a lot of what brad said though- good fixing, narrow power band, avoid combos and fast mana and conspiracies, you should be aight

 

[Brad]

Making sure to incorporate some sorcery-speed removal is one good strategy to help balance the interaction between control and other decks. It allows decks to utilize haste, auras, equipment, and other stuff like that safely (for at least one turn), and increases the tension for the control deck, having to spend mana on their turn to remove the threat.

Sorcery speed removal is the best way to push an aura theme, in my opinion.

Conversely, a ton of instant speed removal is a nice way to push control.

 

[Sheltem]

My advice would be don’t build the cube alone. Let everyone in your group participate. This way they‘ll be invested even more.
Engage with them beforehand and ask what kind of Magic they want to enjoy. This way your cube will better meet up with their expectancies.
Also after playing gather feedback. Which cards should be cut? Ask them why. A good debriefing will make sure you get the information necessary to help with adjusting the cube to the player base.
It is a bit like being a GM at D&D. Be sure you are telling the story your party wants to hear.
(Oh my, this sounds awfully close to agile software development)

 

[Hathaway]

Thank you all for the input. It means a lot to me. I've sent out a group message to my most frequent drafters asking for their thoughts. My dining room table is covered with cards from Ice Age to Urza's Destiny. Hope to get a pile together and posted this week.

 

[landofMordor]

3. I don't want to kill midrange decks, but I don't want every match to be 3-4 color goodstuff piles either
4. Not sure if reanimation or tinker can be inserted into such a format

My two cents is that all-in mana cheat combo like Tinker and Reanimator tend to be all-or-nothing, and when combo is good it's really hard for midrange to exist.

Option 1: mana cheat combo is consistent and therefore broken. This forces midrange out of contention, since it's hard to tap out for Lovestruck Beast when the opponent just goes Tinker into Blightsteel (or, yknow, insert old-border equivalent like Draco).

Option 2: mana cheat combo is undertuned and not worth playing. If Tinker is only getting, say, Razorfield Thresher, it begs the question -- why am I spending 3 draft picks on a fragile combo that is worse than just playing Lovestruck Beast? If your drafters play to win, they'll tend to ignore combo where the juice ain't worth the squeeze.

Option 3: mana cheat is powerful, but inconsistent (aka the MTGO Vintage Cube philosophy). MTGO has roughly piece of redundancy for Mindslaver/Academy Ruins combo. In other words, they are looking to create cool story moments for streamers and casuals, which is perfectly fine, but in the long run it just means that the gameplay is high variance. Sometimes the broken combo comes together, and the designer has to hope that getting the Mindslaver lock once a night or so is worth getting steamrolled by consistent decks during the other games. When people are playing to win, they also tend to ignore these inconsistent combos in favor of consistency.

Hope that helps. Any option is just as good as another -- it all depends on what your goals are for this cube.