General Metapost- Post/Discussion Tags

Chriskool

Chriskool

There is a lot of great discussion here, but due to the highly customizable nature of cube and tendencies to discuss topics in terms of one's own cubing experience, we sometimes are talking apples to oranges. Is there any desire (beyond my own) to develop a 10 or so word glossary of keywords to short cut explaining the point of view being shared (or tag a cube in the cube list forum)? This already occurs on a partial level, but it'd be nice (for me, at least) to catalog it and provide uniformity.

... I heard that Balduvian Trading Post implemented this, but their progressive nature meant there were more tags than actual cubes (but not polycubes). I reckon we could be more conservative in our approach.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Maybe we could device a few scales and you could put your own cube somewhere on the scale(s). Like, individual power level of the cards (low power > power max), average number of colors in winning decklists (monocolor > five color), singleton breaking (none > heavy), custom cards (0% > 100%). Whatever, I'm just making up these categories and numbers. Ideally we should be able to plot this shit on a spider graph or something and see where our cubes lie in relation to each other. Two dimensional graphs are even easier to compare! The traditional left wing vs right wing and conservative vs progressive political plots are a good example. The good old power max cube would be somewhere in the power max & singleton corner, but man, our cubes vary a lot and they pretty much all deviate from that power max tradition in different ways. Where would I put my cube, for example, in all its 20% customizing, color wheel rearranging, singleton breaking, three-color supporting glory?
 
Ferritovore

Ferritovore

There's Taylor/Waddell ... hypercubes
Parlante/Flower... uniqubes
the rest of us.... cobblecubes
Oh and legacy throwbackubes, but that's like 2 people?
Maybe a tag for Giganto Thought Experiments like fantasy sets, modular cube, etc.

That covers basic cube style, but then we need tags for the intended players. A cube played by noobs can get away with including some things that can't be let loose in a den of experienced players. A cube played by a bunch of zany brewers can have some narrow stuff that spikes would just ignore in the draft and heartlessly dismantle in the games.

Then of course a tag for size/players. Normal cube is 360/8, my cube is 270/4.

Maybe a tag for your color wheel, like WGBRU if you're emphasizing certain pairs/trios.

If we've learned anything from hashtags, it's that you can go wild with them, but somehow they remain useful. (especially if you put the more meaningful/common tags at the fore of your tag infinitrain into space)
 
FlowerSunRain

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
I'm not really into this idea. I like all the unfiltered viewpoints mashed together. I can't count how many times someone has said something thought provoking BECAUSE it was "off-topic" that wouldn't have come out if things were segregated. But its a pretty large number.
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
I think he is just asking for a list of common jargon we run into on the forum, with a simple definition, which I think is fine. I'm guessing just a very basic, one sentence definition for each term.

Tempo:
Card Advantage:
Perceived Pressure:
Spell Velocity:
Graveyard Velocity:
Negative Variance:
NWO:
GRBS:
Ripetide Cube:
Monolith Cube:
Good Stuff:

Stuff like that; just a glossary really.
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Ferret said:
There's Taylor/Waddell ... hypercubes
Parlante/Flower... uniqubes
the rest of us.... cobblecubes
Oh and legacy throwbackubes, but that's like 2 people?
Maybe a tag for Giganto Thought Experiments like fantasy sets, modular cube, etc.

That covers basic cube style, but then we need tags for the intended players. A cube played by noobs can get away with including some things that can't be let loose in a den of experienced players. A cube played by a bunch of zany brewers can have some narrow stuff that spikes would just ignore in the draft and heartlessly dismantle in the games.

Then of course a tag for size/players. Normal cube is 360/8, my cube is 270/4.

Maybe a tag for your color wheel, like WGBRU if you're emphasizing certain pairs/trios.

If we've learned anything from hashtags, it's that you can go wild with them, but somehow they remain useful. (especially if you put the more meaningful/common tags at the fore of your tag infinitrain into space)
Click to expand...

Mostly unrelated, but my cube is hypercube? Wait is there another Taylor? there's another Chris, he started this thread...
 
Chriskool

Chriskool

FlowerSunRain said:
I'm not really into this idea. I like all the unfiltered viewpoints mashed together. I can't count how many times someone has said something thought provoking BECAUSE it was "off-topic" that wouldn't have come out if things were segregated. But its a pretty large number.
Click to expand...


I think the different frames of reference are valuable and do not want to try to strangle them out of conversation. What I do want are some words to encapsulate paragraphs of framing that I feel they need to include when weighing in with my opinion or asking questions. This could feed into the cube list area some to help communicate designer constraints and set the conversation some without the need to explicitly ask questions about one's own design (which seems to be the best way to drive conversation there at the moment).

I am not interested in trying to make the boards an exercise in rules and regulations by any stretch! Grillo's glossary interpretation is much closer to how I'd gain value from such a system. In any outcome, just an idea!

...Balduvian Trading Post & Riptide Laboratory present:
 
safra

safra

Grillo_Parlante said:
I think he is just asking for a list of common jargon we run into on the forum, with a simple definition, which I think is fine. I'm guessing just a very basic, one sentence definition for each term.
[...]
Stuff like that; just a glossary really.
Click to expand...



Spell velocity: a measure of how much a deck or format trends toward sequencing and playing more than one spell a turn. The 'opposite' is a strategy based on progressively curving out into the midgame or later.
NWO: A Wizards design era of lower board complexity at common; a response to how Time Spiral, with its legion of keywords, drove away casual players
GRBS: "game-ruining bullshit"; these cards are far stronger than they are fun to play with. The definition is contextual.
(Grim) Monolith Cube: Sometimes also called Dragon cubes, these are top-heavy, loaded with fast artifact mana and swingy plays. They often feature one-dimensional aggro suites, favouring 2/1s for 1 (against Thragtusk).
Riptide Cube: Inasmuch as the cubes here share anything, it's a heavier level of available nonbasics, lower curves than Monolith cubes, and often careful breaking of the singleton restriction to implicitly 'sculpt' a format.
Negative Variance: Bad beats, snake eyes, you name it and I've failed to draw it at a critical moment. Magic is a game of chance as well as skill, and it's one that involves a surprising amount of games decided for reasons out of your players' control. You can shrug and move on - or try to reduce it.
Good stuff: Cards playable on their own merits without explicit synergy; the best ones are good outside of but excellent in your archetypal strategies as well.
Good stuff: (derogatory) Cards I lose to.
Card advantage: Having more cards, whether that's actually, virtually, effectively or in a bank vault somewhere.
Hero: A term taken from poker, it's the player whose perspective we'll take on for a given example.
Villain: Hero's opponent, also via poker slang. Magic's alternatives are worse.
"Tempo": A way to have more options available at a given point in time than your opponent. Put a ticket in the swear jar, please.
"Perceived Pressure": forcing your opponent to play around an answer (or threat) you may or may not have. May or may not actually matter; ticket in the swear jar, please.


any more jargon you guys want defined, throw it up and I'll try.
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
I'll contribute my thoughts on word meaning later, but just to add a few more to the list:

aggro-control:
fish decks:
disruptive aggro:
aggro:
midrange:
control:
roshambo model:
draft dynamics:
metagame:
ULD:
ramp deck:
pitches to force:
Legacy lite format:
conditional removal:
Dragon Cube:

Probably want to include some of the different formats as well, quilt drafting etc. I don't know all of those however.

What am I forgetting?
 
safra

safra

Chris Taylor said:
You know, I think it'd be way funnier if we never actually explained pitches to force. That you'd just have to gradually figure it out because of the common causes of cards we say pitch to force (Quite few of which are blue)
Click to expand...

well buckle up and call me Ambrose Spell Pierce b/c

aggro-control: An aggressive deck that seeks to establish an early board presence and 'ride it to victory'. Look to Delver or Heroic in Constructed for examples.
fish decks: Aggressive decks with potent and specialized hate, typically also rocking counterspells. Distinct from aggro-control in that a Fish deck has clear metagame prey and maindecked hate for bad matchups.
disruptive aggro: Aggressive decks that seek to interrupt the opponent's ability to deal with their threats, whether long-term or for just enough turns to bash 20.
aggro: The deck with cheaper creatures.
midrange: Flexible decks with strong cards. Midrange isn't a pit, midrange is a ladder; many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, refuse; they cling to control, or Delver, or Reanimator - illusions - only the ladder is real. The curve is all there is.
control: The deck with more expensive spells.
roshambo model: A paradigm in which three (or more) broad archetypes exist in a circular metagame relationship where A typically beats B, B C, and C A.
draft dynamics: The consequences of passing packs between players; all your Cube design is interpellated through the drafting process, where each card has an opportunity cost of one pick.
metagame: Your 'established decks', the ones that show up in multiple drafts.
ULD: Short for "Utility Land Draft", it's a quick second draft to rotisserie interesting utility lands that might not otherwise be Cubeable.
ramp deck: This deck gets to play a strong lategame in the middle or early game; what's not to love?
pitches to force: ???
pitches to force: (derogatory) any post hoc rationale that has little to do with a card's in-game evaluation ("it's great in the counters-matter deck", "I love the flavour text", "plus, it pitches to Force")
Legacy lite format: A format that aims to reproduce Legacy's density of early choices and interaction, but at a lower power level.
Dragon Cube: younger in Cube development than the Monolith Cube, Dragon cubes retain the top-heavy curves, drop some of the fast mana and combo, and gain more flexible aggro. For these cubes, the Kamigawa Dragon cycle were excellent finishers, hence the name.
 
Aoret

Aoret

Developer
I think the glossary is useful, and I think signaturing your point of reference via a cube link and a couple descriptors of where you're at is probably helpful. I'll start:

360, unpowered, heavy singleton breaking, light custom cards, standard color wheel, color pie mostly respected, no infinite combos (that I know of..), ULD (rotisserie, unlimited picks, allowed to pass), fetches and wastelands in my "basic" land box (currently limited to 4-of any card).

Which of the above should be sigged? How can I write some of this in fewer words? Is this standardizable (and stickyable) at all or just a clusterfuck?
 
Chriskool

Chriskool

@anotak: how does that work? is it choose one and find your cube designing identity?

You identify with "The Scuttlemutt Cube". Your penchant for the zany and complicated ensure that your cubes alienate over half of the local FNM while having the level of involvement that precludes the interest of the typical player capable of decoding the environment (unless gambling and/or free food is involved). Have you considered becoming a real artist or perhaps undertaking an engineering program? You could even use your new skills to create better custom cards or draft simulators!
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Aoret said:
I think the glossary is useful, and I think signaturing your point of reference via a cube link and a couple descriptors of where you're at is probably helpful. I'll start:

360, unpowered, heavy singleton breaking, light custom cards, standard color wheel, color pie mostly respected, no infinite combos (that I know of..), ULD (rotisserie, unlimited picks, allowed to pass), fetches and wastelands in my "basic" land box (currently limited to 4-of any card).

Which of the above should be sigged? How can I write some of this in fewer words? Is this standardizable (and stickyable) at all or just a clusterfuck?
Click to expand...

360, non-singleton, free-range, locally sourced, unlimited fetches and wastelands in basic land box.
 
Chriskool

Chriskool

Can we at least agree on all Riptiders using "artisanal" when tagging their cubes? Jason also might be on to something with sourcing; I cobbled together mine via TCGPlayer (def not locally sourced) which might offend some cubers' finer sensibilities.

On a serious note, I am going to continuously comb through this and update the OP with possible tags/keywords (topically arranged and with description).
 
Jason Waddell

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
I do think this information, if added, should be in signatures.

Probably if you look at the Wasteland debate, there's a pretty clear divide based on the power level of the cubes run by posters. There are exceptions though. To quote (lower-power) James from half an hour ago in his living room: "People are debating against Wasteland? That's strange, we never had any complaints about it here."
 
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