Drop 'em here.
General Multicolor cards you would include if you had the space
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Anything 
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I'm gonna do like Onde and Brad and not contribute to the thread
I can run any number of multicolored cards because my cube has no limits. I do, however, need to keep all colors and color-combinations balanced. Therefore I am having a difficult time getting all the sweet Bolas-related Grixis cards into my cube because that would mean I need an equal amount of Naya cards.
These are the cards I try to squeeze into my Shard/Khans section where I only have 3 of each combination right now.
I can run any number of multicolored cards because my cube has no limits. I do, however, need to keep all colors and color-combinations balanced. Therefore I am having a difficult time getting all the sweet Bolas-related Grixis cards into my cube because that would mean I need an equal amount of Naya cards.
These are the cards I try to squeeze into my Shard/Khans section where I only have 3 of each combination right now.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
To be fair, I don't think you have to have perfect balance, especially in the three color slot. Six Grixis drops is probably pushing it, but in the grand scheme of things, no one is going to notice if you run four Grixis cards and only one Naya card, especially if you "steal" those extra three slots from corresponding slots (like one less Dimir, Rakdos, and Izzet card, or one less blue, black, and red card) to accomodate those extra Grixis cards.
How would you know? I don't have a list that has been fully uploaded yet. The cards are in the cube but online you can't see the full list yet. I have about 500 cards (estimate) that I haven't uploaded yet but they're ready for me whenever I find the time.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I think cube owners value perfectly balanced color section too much in general, this wasn't meant as a personal critique on your cube. I was just saying, if you have more Grixis cards that you want to include than Naya cards, don't feel obligated to have the numbers match. A slight imbalance in color sections is not going to have a lot of impact on the draft, and if that's what lets you include the cards you enjoy most, go for it!
I'd go so far as to say imbalance in the colors would lead to the best possible balance in play if it was determined to be needed via playtesting. With balanced colors, a cube designer is choosing to balance only the "input" to the play experience (how many cards of each color go into the draft). Balancing the "output" of the draft (how the decks actually play against each other) might best be achieved by undoing that first balance.
As cube owner's and event hosters, wouldn't you agree that we are in 100 % control of the input (The cards we add to the draft pool)? And not in control of the output (How the players draft, how they construct their decks and how they play their games)? I feel personally responsible for the players' cube experience in the first category.
This is the reason why I try to balance the colors.
This is the reason why I try to balance the colors.
Of course we are in indirect control of the output. If we are under-serving (or over-serving) particular archetypes, they will be worse (or better) in drafting and playing. The best possible way to remedy that observed imbalance would be to allow yourself to change color balance along with every other dial we twiddle with. Otherwise we are artificially restricting/controlling our inputs on a variable that doesn't actually need to be restricted.
It seems to me that our design philosophies are very close to each other. I run a cube that is over a thousand cards because I want my players to never really know what to expect. Except I want there on average to be balance between the colors. But no cube session has ever had a perfect balance between the colors obviously with that high a card count.
Maybe we're just defining output differently. I do not think I am in control over which cards the players will pick, how they construct their decks and how to choose to play their games. I am only in control over the tools I'm giving them before the tournament begins: The cards they can choose from. If you define output (and input) a different way, then fine with me <3
Does anyone have anything they wish to add to Jason's topic?
I have Grixis issues ever since my Grixis left my mom and I for good when I was a small kid.I'm really only defining the purpose of the changes we are making. Are we making changes to the cube to change how the resulting play happens (controlling based on the output results), or are we making changes to satisfy our own "rules of construction" (controlling based on the input rules). So if a blue-white control archetype is really struggling because it needs more counter spells, are we adding some counterspells, or are we adding counterspells but also removing two other blue cards because blue has to have X cards in it's section, and those removals potentially compromise the UW deck in some other way? Maybe a red card and green card are the truly proper cards to remove because they are unfairly punishing to that UW deck. In this case we've unbalanced the colors slightly, but potentially done a much better job with improving how the average UW deck will play in an average cube session. Otherwise we are negotiating with our UW deck to try and give it the tools it needs in some arbitrarily confined space.
It's not going to be 100% of the time that we need to do something like that, but not allowing ourselves that tool is confining.
I usually (when not in a pandemic) draft my entire cube with a special drafting style, so I don't have the random imbalances caused by drafting less than the entire cube amount.
It's not going to be 100% of the time that we need to do something like that, but not allowing ourselves that tool is confining.
I usually (when not in a pandemic) draft my entire cube with a special drafting style, so I don't have the random imbalances caused by drafting less than the entire cube amount.
There's one kind of multi-color space issue I'm thinking of
People have talked on the forum before about a certain split identity in black where there are black cards that care about creatures (and usually the graveyard) and then black cards that don't and these basically go into mutually exclusive decks. GB really tends to lean towards a creature build so the problem is even worse. There are a bunch of sweet GB combo-y non-creature decks that I'd like to feel natural during the draft. But because relevant cards are useless to a GB creature deck, the space constraints are twice as tough as they normally are. Plus, the draft experience is less natural. Lets say you find some excuse to move into a GB non-creature deck - then half the Golgari cards you see because you've cut those colors are for dredge/reanimator.
I guess the drafting scenario works best if you find some reason to be GB (let's say you grab Demonic Tutor and Sylvan Library) and then later you settle into either Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis or Cadaverous Bloom. In this case you're staying open and then narrowing your direction more naturally. There's some overlap here too because if you're playing a mostly non-creature deck you would probably still want Entomb + Griselbrand in there, or Oath of Druids.
Obviously, I'm a describing a cube with a certain style and power-level, but I bet the same thing applies in a lot of places.
People have talked on the forum before about a certain split identity in black where there are black cards that care about creatures (and usually the graveyard) and then black cards that don't and these basically go into mutually exclusive decks. GB really tends to lean towards a creature build so the problem is even worse. There are a bunch of sweet GB combo-y non-creature decks that I'd like to feel natural during the draft. But because relevant cards are useless to a GB creature deck, the space constraints are twice as tough as they normally are. Plus, the draft experience is less natural. Lets say you find some excuse to move into a GB non-creature deck - then half the Golgari cards you see because you've cut those colors are for dredge/reanimator.
I guess the drafting scenario works best if you find some reason to be GB (let's say you grab Demonic Tutor and Sylvan Library) and then later you settle into either Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis or Cadaverous Bloom. In this case you're staying open and then narrowing your direction more naturally. There's some overlap here too because if you're playing a mostly non-creature deck you would probably still want Entomb + Griselbrand in there, or Oath of Druids.
Obviously, I'm a describing a cube with a certain style and power-level, but I bet the same thing applies in a lot of places.
I'd like to have more space for some of the utility lands. They might be less flashy than actual multicolor cards, but they don't compete for the same slot. So instead of having to cut a 24th card, you get to "add" a card to your mana base. Moot point if there is an ULD.
I also like multicolor removal spells, but usually don't play many because I would rather have signpost cards there instead.
Last category are 2 drops. They are usually pretty powerful if multicolor and can be relevant late, but I don't have enough spots for them all
I also like multicolor removal spells, but usually don't play many because I would rather have signpost cards there instead.
Last category are 2 drops. They are usually pretty powerful if multicolor and can be relevant late, but I don't have enough spots for them all
I'm personally in love with
They're both such simple, effective beaters and the fourth toughness on the Angel is the second* most relevant toughness you can get. I always have a thing for Jeskai cards, too.
They also provide a lot of efficiency for the number of words my poor drafters would have to read. Similarly, I appreciate
The RW cards are equipment payoffs with low word count, too.
Nano is on the money with the utility lands. It's super difficult to justify colorless-two-color lands in a 10 guild format, however. The new KHM sac utilities have me, once again, considering a cycle of utilities for The Black Cube, however.
They're both such simple, effective beaters and the fourth toughness on the Angel is the second* most relevant toughness you can get. I always have a thing for Jeskai cards, too.
They also provide a lot of efficiency for the number of words my poor drafters would have to read. Similarly, I appreciate
The RW cards are equipment payoffs with low word count, too.
Nano is on the money with the utility lands. It's super difficult to justify colorless-two-color lands in a 10 guild format, however. The new KHM sac utilities have me, once again, considering a cycle of utilities for The Black Cube, however.
1 toughness would like to have a word with you.
I totally forgot about colored utility lands. Those I would like to have more of but don't have a good way to include in my cube. There are so many sweet ones.
Even with no maximum limit cap on cards in my cube I still really can't include too many of these because it will dilute the lands that help fix the mana base.
Edit: Damn it, I'm gonna include 10. One of each Guild. But that's it and don't anyone try and make me add more!
I experienced Gavony and Nephalia as GRBS, though.
I think cube owners value perfectly balanced color section too much in general, this wasn't meant as a personal critique on your cube. I was just saying, if you have more Grixis cards that you want to include than Naya cards, don't feel obligated to have the numbers match. A slight imbalance in color sections is not going to have a lot of impact on the draft, and if that's what lets you include the cards you enjoy most, go for it!
It has in fact been my experience that having an unbalanced color section often improves the draft. (desipte at one point having basically a full power scapeshift jund deck in an earlier iteration of the cube, no one actually went in on an RGB deck of any type until I put in 2x jund ultimatum. Even though the ultimatum rarely made it to a jund player and rarely made the main when it did, simply existing *in the draft* when other tri-color cards didn't, told players something about the cube that was hard to communicate otherwise.)
Most retail drafts are not perfectly balanced on multicolor cards either, since they're a semi-random subset of the overall retail cardpool and it's hardly the end of the world there.
Yes, the Jund Ultimatum was not getting there on power level, but even having an nearly unplayable tri-color that broke symmetry was enough to get players to notice, which was really the goal.
Thanks for all the suggestions so far. Here's what I've gathered til now:
I haven't really looked at the newest Ravnica set yet. Any hits there?
I haven't really looked at the newest Ravnica set yet. Any hits there?
Couple of ones from latest Ravnica:
I think I missed the entire last 5 years of card releases.
I need this for Eldrazi Domain. The thought of this raptor mama just coming in and coddling a newborn Eldrazi spawn warms my heart.