Article Podcast - Joy of Cubing - Supporting Combo

Happy 4th of July, all!

The latest episode of Joy of Cubing is up! This week I am joined by Adam Prosak to discuss supporting combo. We discuss various builds, support cards, and archetypes. Enjoy!

Joy of Cubing - Supporting Combo

Anyone having luck supporting some off-the-wall two card combos? Storm? I am cutting my list in half and powering it up for a few weeks just to throw some variety in the mix. Likely to model it off a combination of the MODO Holiday Cube and a few powered lists I like.
 

Rob Dennis

Developer
downloading this in anticipation of my flight tomorrow.

My original list was heavily based on Andy Cooperfauss's list around the time modo cube first was released and did mostly tweaks once AVR came out. This meant that I had splinter twin/kiki-jiki and exarch/pestermite/zealous conscripts, as the main thing for a UR deck to try.

No one was able to put it together on purpose, and I got a bit tired explaining to newer players why a seemingly unsupportable card like splinter twin was in. Andy has since removed it from his list as well I think.

I'd be interesting in one day trying to do an entire that's built to support combo, but it wasn't a good tack-on to a more combat-oriented unpowered list.
 

VibeBox

Contributor
can't wait to listen to the new episode at work tomorrow

i currently support storm, but tbh i think i need to get the size down a little before it will be a reliable archetype

i recently added the Wish cycle and it's been helpful in upping the virtual number of finishers for storm
 
Listening while I type out a monster post. Dragon Quest = Pure Class.

I enjoy combo. It's fun to try to assemble and it's fun to watch other people go off. When they're complicated and intricate and risky they create stories about how smart the players are. So I tried out a lot of stuff despite my massive singleton cube being full of durdles rather than combo enablers. Sadly the more complex combos just don't ever happen in a cube this big, and as a result there's not so much of a 'combo deck' as there are decks that have the option of combo for value.

The most fun part of magic for me is discovering synergies between cards.

My cube originally contained the following stupid combos:

Iridescent Drake + False Demise + any sac outlet: This one is something I do in casual constructed and so I was eager to see how it would work in cube. The drake could fit in an aura-based beatdown deck and the aura could fit in value creature builds (inspired by the surprisingly effective Man-o'-War and Augury Owl rebuying I was doing in casual) and sac outlets are always good. Sadly the aura deck was never playable due to the high density of good spot removal and the value deck doesn't want to throw away three mana and a card to maybe get value when they could cast a card that certainly gets value. So this deck never happened, ever.

Illusions of Grandeur + Donate: Everyone was too scared to go deep. Both cards appeared together in multiple drafts but it didn't take. The problem is that people don't want to waste a pick on a card that does nothing unless you find its soul mate.

Storm: A singleton 800 card cube will not have a storm deck with anything that could be considered akin to consistency. Random warrens for 6 or 8 happened once or twice but the decks that were capable of it were typically much worse for their inclusion of rituals or ignii.

It still contains these stupid combos:

Quillspike + Devoted Druid: This one is a personal favorite of mine from Shadowmoor/Eventide draft, because both cards were reasonably good and synergistic in that environment. That's slightly less true in my cube; the druid is awesome but there's not nearly enough focus on -1/-1 counters for the spike beastie to get his pick quality going on. I've picked it in my cube when I already had Murderous Redcap and Twilight Shepherd and that seemed like around the right amount of upside. But it's fine to have a card that's usually unplayable because at least it will wheel for the deck that can use it (like Lion's Eye Diamond for storm or Progenitus for Show and Tell). It's also not at all oppressive when it works because you have to attack to kill people.

Channel: This is being watched carefully. It hasn't happened since I added Eldrazi Conscription or Teeka's Final Aeon and they're by far the least fair things you can do with an early Channel in my cube. Channel Fireball is pretty fair in my cube because against aggro decks it's hard to be up on life and against control decks you'll get your stuff countered, so almost all the time there's an interactive dance to make it actually happen, even game 1. Joraga Treespeaker into Channel for Genesis Wave is strong but it's three cards and you still die to wrath. I think Channel is fair when nothing like Myr Battlesphere, Karn Liberated, or giant Eldrazi are coming out on T2.

Big Cheats: This deck has been good exactly once in my cube and it went off in spectacular fashion. Still holding out for Dream Halls + Griselbrand being an actual thing. The cheats themselves are inconsistent but they overlap so well with ramp decks and control decks that they don't feel particularly bad while they're going around. Also my cube tends to create the occasional battlecruiser matchup in which having a cheaty card in your sideboard is big game. It's very fun when it happens and doesn't make the game less fun by existing so it can stay.

Palinchron + Mirari's Wake (or Bloom Tender + Freed from the Real): Bant ramp is already a thing so having the option of infinite mana is always nice. I'm hoping that someone gets to make an arbitrarily large Jenara, Asura of War, only to have it stopped by Ray of Command with a follow-up Reins of Power.

Reanimate: Not as a combo card because it isn't consistent, but as an option for blue/black control decks to just randomly have their finisher earlier in the game.

So really there's all sorts of stuff that has a combo 'feel' but doesn't actually define its deck, and that all goes back to the restrictions imposed by a large cube.
 
I wish I had checked my podcasts before leaving for work today... : (
At least I'll have something neat to listen to in the jim : )

I really love the stupid blue based fatty cheating decks that always seem to turn into lame combo decks with infinite palinchron and clones or other tricks like the grand arbiter. Love when I get to be mean with capsize and the like.

I keep trying to force kiki value decks too. It's not exactly easy, but when things go well you get your classic drooly player best case scenario feels. I really love that imperial recruiter finds you everything you want.
 
Big Cheats: This deck has been good exactly once in my cube and it went off in spectacular fashion. Still holding out for Dream Halls + Griselbrand being an actual thing. The cheats themselves are inconsistent but they overlap so well with ramp decks and control decks that they don't feel particularly bad while they're going around. Also my cube tends to create the occasional battlecruiser matchup in which having a cheaty card in your sideboard is big game. It's very fun when it happens and doesn't make the game less fun by existing so it can stay.

So really there's all sorts of stuff that has a combo 'feel' but doesn't actually define its deck, and that all goes back to the restrictions imposed by a large cube.
I think combos like 'big cheats' and even ramp and reanimator allow bigger cubes the opportunity to play combo without sacrificing power. There's really nothing worse than setting up a storm deck or two-card combo in a larger list only to find out you couldn't loop the other half.
I did forget about a fun two-card combo: Wake Thrasher + Basalt Monolith for the arbitrarily large number of untaps for an arbitrarily large wake thrasher. That's a pretty cheap (opportunity cost) and fun combo
This is one of the reasons I kept Thrasher in my list for so long. It's a pretty hilarious combo that doesn't result in the opponent wanting to flip the table like other combos.
I keep trying to force kiki value decks too. It's not exactly easy, but when things go well you get your classic drooly player best case scenario feels. I really love that imperial recruiter finds you everything you want.
I also share your love of Kiki value decks. Kiki-Jiki is great in that it slots itself into more than just the value deck. Want to build an Angel/Conscripts/Mite combo deck? How about just chaining Avalanche Riders or Goblin Settler? I even like him as the top end in some red-based aggro decks.
 
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