Rasmus Riptide Cube (360 Unpowered)

[Rasmus Källqvist]

360 Cards
Unpowered
Doublets (Non Singleton)
Low curve, Early interaction, Aggro friendly.
CubeTutor: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/18472
CubeTutor: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/25428

Rasmus's Cube! Right now it's a pretty standard Riptide-esque fair. I've gotten some pretty positive feedback on it, and seeing as it is very riptidy, this of course means that riptidy cubes are great. It started out as a collection of cards I had home, but grew like a stone soup sourdough loaf with more and more cubey cards, and now it looks like it does. I'm pretty happy with being a cube owner!

Design principles: Right now it's pretty much "Tons of interaction, as early as possible" which excluded a bunch of cards with pro-color and hexproof and the like, and encourages low cost removal. I'm not against sticking some resilient creatures on the top of the curve, but I'm trying to keep the early game pretty clean. I'm also a fan of the idea of "incidental themes" or "non themes" so I can write down "Broad and transparent themes" "Themes that reward being built around early, but with components that can still work in other decks" as a goal as well, trying to get a lot of cards to stick into a lot of decks as well as feeling really synergistic from time to time. I want my enablers to support at least two themes, but some of the build-arounds can be pretty linear. "Wheeling cards is a fun" , it's part of drafts to cleverly choose what cards that are urgent to pick and what you can hope no one else is interested in and pick it when it comes back, so as long as the cards are fun they can probably live in the cube a while even if they are narrow-ish (adventuring gear being an example) edit note: changed one of the principles since I think it's worth having more obvious build arounds. I underestimated how hard it is to parse a completely new cube. I've loved drafting other riptiders cube on cubetutor because of the way picks guided me around different ideas that ultimately came together as a real deck, and I should be able to recreate that by just adding some more cards that anchor people into a deck.

Archetypes (pretty much somewhat):

Spoiler

• Sacrifice Aggro (bloodsoaked champion, carrion feeder, braids, cabal minion)
• Pod (birthing pod, value creatures, threaten effects etc)
• Delver (U/x tempo, which at the time of this update has spell support but lacks tempo-creatures)
• Lifegain (ajani's pridemate, archangel of thune)
• Landfall (steppe lynx, life from the loam, windswept heath, adventuring gear)
• Enchantments & Auras (heliod's pilgrim, eidolon of blossoms, faith's fetters, curse of predation)
• Flicker (restoration angel, ghostly flicker, flickerwisp, a bunch of etb guys like blade splicer and thragtusk)
• Incidental Devotion (purphoros, fanatic of mogis, gray merchant, mogis's marauder and cards like ashenmoor gouger)
• Humans (champion of the parish, mayor of avabruck, xathrid necromancer)
• Reanimator (dread return, diabolic servitude, unburial rites a fatty and some discard outlets.)

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Current state of affairs: I have played some grid-drafts and a 6-man. I really like how there are different aggro styles, so now I'm trying to give control more of an edge versus the aggro and midrange decks. The way I feel about things right now is that there is a lot of value to get, and a lot of recurring creatures, which means either I'll have to get some better removal (and exiling removal!) or I'll have to tone down the amount of recurring creatures I have.

It's very easy to get a good aggressive curve in several colors, usually two splashing a third, so I don't feel like I need to worry about aggro not coming together as functional and fun to play decks.

What I want to achieve is that wonderful tension between the low curve decks and the higher curve ones. One player also noted that there's a lack of combo-elements which is what I'd labeled "durdle", since I'm not really down with true combos, but I'd love to see fiddly ways to eek out card advantage.

Another player, who's also managing a cube, noted the lack of propper blue beef to tie people into U/x decks, so I'm hoping to get some good blue finishers. This should also help the control decks, since a control deck needs a wincon. The cards I've been thinking about are Frost Titan, Sphinx of Jwar isle, prognostic sphinx and master of predicaments. Do you think these could help people stick to playing primarily blue decks?

Master of predicaments sounds like tons of fun with dig through time and treasure cruise, the latter a card I could see doubling up on to help that card, as well as treasure cruise feeling really rewarding to play.

I've tried to get a sort of pox and braids theme going, but I feel like it's a bit too easy to get a bunch of recurring cards going right now and I want those decks to feel more special as well as less grindy and punishing for the other decks. If you've looked at the list, what do you think is some obvious cards to shave off in terms of undying/persist/tokens?

My current goals are:

• Make control more fun and rewarding to play with and against
• Tone down the amount of creatures just never die and keep sticking around
• Add some fiddly combo-synergy elements that contrast the 'dumber' fast aggro decks and value midrange decks. Something that feels both spiky as well as johnny.
• Maybe look into whether or not I should add some land-destruction to reward more mono-centric decks with an edge when playing against really smooth 4 color mana bases
• Make blue get better creatures in general, probably looking at adding things like riftwing cloudskate and man-o'-war
• Try to get even more styles of aggro into the cube. Right now there are Humans, Sacrifice and Landfall that I feel stick out. I'd like to try and get Zoo in there, as well as more of a tempo-oriented aggro deck going (which beefing up blue should help with).
• Might look into adding some more colorless mana rocks to help bridge the gap between 5 and higher cmc's

See anything that sticks in the list when looking at the cube tutor? Feel like I'm missing something obvious? Would love to hear about it!

 

[Chris Taylor]

Thoughts:

Can wall of reverence be literally anything else?
Pressure Point could be Niveous Wisps if you aren't intentionally nerfing it
Path of Bravery? Could be a different spear of heliod
Mind Twist seems like a bit much if you want interactive games
Is metorite played as printed?

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

Wall of reverence was a last minute panic to throw any bone I could to control. It's going to get switched out with a real card as soon as possible lease

Didn't know of wisps, nice catch. The difference between 2 mana and 1 mana cantrips is pretty huge. Mind twist is definitely getting the kick, a turn 4 mind twist was usually the game. Some players pointed that out as well.

Do you see path of bravery next to or instead of spear? I do have a Lifegain theme, in case that was what you hinted at.

Is utility-tinker-welder a plausible non-beatdown subtheme? It's definitely very combo esque, and I think other people here have tried a toned down tinker package.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Wall of Reverence: Maybe Nyx-Fleece Ram?

You could do either anthem. I haven't played with path of bravery for a while, but it was on about 90% of the time, and that was without a dedicated lifegain theme (and with lots of fetches)
Fun story about that though: the last draft before I cut it because I didn't need the anthem anymore, someone made some blocks (including perilous myr) and once combat damage resolved he shocked me. Everything I had died since I lost the +1/+1, I thought that was awesome

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Very riptide!

Chris points are all really good. I would second the suggestion here of nyx-fleece ram instead of the wall, and man, does mind twist stick out like a sore thumb!

Your blue beef comment is interesting, I have similar concerns that blue is all support and no beef. I'm not sure it has that problem in power max cubes due to the, well, power. Blue beef is by all means useful but not sure it will be enough by itself. It probably needs some more hooks/anchors and less utility? Not sure what the answer is though?

I think frost Titan is perfectly playable but it super exciting.
I hate sphinx of jar isle. Shroud. Urgh.
I <3 prognostic sphinx.
Instead of master of predicaments how about

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

Wall of Reverence: Maybe Nyx-Fleece Ram?

Hm, maybe! Definitely the right choice if I absolutely want to play a life-gaining blocker. I was looking for another four drop, and it happen to fill that slot. I'll have to look for some better option for a four drop though, but I'm thinking of trying out grillos golems with master splicer even though I think that is stretching it a bit, but I also had a player asking me to put in more synergistic themes.

Your blue beef comment is interesting, I have similar concerns that blue is all support and no beef. I'm not sure it has that problem in power max cubes due to the, well, power. Blue beef is by all means useful but not sure it will be enough by itself. It probably needs some more hooks/anchors and less utility? Not sure what the answer is though?

I like Conundrum Sphinx! Might have to cut something since I think the blue stuff is kind of crowded at 4. It's definitely one of those tricky cards that reward you playing brainstorms/ponders/scrying effects that I think will be a hit! Master of predicaments might be a bit too much durdle. I'm going to try sphinx of jwar isle even though it has shroud, since I really want to help big blue be stronger.

I really really wanna add goblin welder and tinker as a really small utility package for artifact decks, with a golem soft-tribe to along with it as well as artifact lands in the utility land draft as this feels like just the kind of combo-feely subtheme that I'd want to add. I'll have to think a bit more about exactly what cards to run in terms of fetchable artifacts, as I mostly want it to be a way to cheat in answer-cards like staff of nin, obelisk of alara and steel hellkite. tuktuk the explorer and feldon of the third path possibly as more support? Really helps my small red 3 section, too.

I was thinking this in terms of golems:

Golem Soft-Tribe

Spoiler

more tricky stuff, what about 5-color zoo?

tribal flames zoo

Spoiler

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

If all you are trying to do is artifically increase artifact count, there are other options to consider:




Some of these are more realistic than others (feldon looks great btw), but you get the idea. You already have blade splicer, tuktuk, and hammer on the radar.

If you want to experiment with splicers, my own splicer package is 7 splicers total, one of which is a ramp target, so you would want prob 4-6 in a 360 if you want them to come together as a midrange deck. Remember, they have to pass muster independently. Blade is a shoe in, vital probably has a really good shot, and master is the dream but could make it.

I have no idea if it works in the end, but it would be an interesting experiment.

What I like about the artifact theme, is that it already has cross over with hammer, which you are running for the gruul deck. In addition, having someone toss you a jinxed idol and than tinkering it away to tutor up a sharding sphinx seems epic.

Sphinx also kind of addresses your blue fattie problem, no?

 

[Eric Chan]

Wall of Reverence here became this gal over a year ago, and I haven't looked back



For blue finishers, my vote goes to this guy. Not as oppressive as a Frost Titan or Consecrated Sphinx, and lots more play to him than a Sphinx of Jwar Isle (e.g., do I play him on six and pray, or wait until I hit seven mana - which might be two turns away?)



Since your fixing is so strong, I'd wager a bet that zoo already exists! Actual zoo cards like Kird Ape and Wild Nacatl aren't strictly necessary for the archetype to take shape. Chances are that you already support Human Zoo, with guys like Champion of the Parish, Experiment One, Burning-Tree Emissary, and Stormblood Berserker.

I said this in another thread this week, but it's difficult to support both landfall aggro and humans as white weenie themes. It's tough to devote enough space for both packages to co-exist, and by trying to enable two archetypes, you may end up diluting both instead. You've also got the lifegain theme in white aggro, which overlaps the human camp a little bit, but again spreads the focus a bit thin. In a tight 360 list, I'd look to be executing one theme extremely well at the start. Then when that theme becomes a known quantity among your playgroup, you can dial back on it a little bit, and then try to layer on a second subtheme. I probably wouldn't try and support three subthemes right at the outset, though.

 

[Laz]

Right now it's a pretty standard Riptide-esque fair. I've gotten some pretty positive feedback on it, and seeing as it is very riptidy, this of course means that riptidy cubes are great.

Infallible logic right here.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Eric, why do you run the angel over



It bugs me every time I see it! Is it just an attempt to reduce power level or to avoid a heroic trap?

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

What I like about the artifact theme, is that it already has cross over with hammer, which you are running for the gruul deck. In addition, having someone toss you a jinxed idol and than tinkering it away to tutor up a sharding sphinx seems epic.

Sphinx also kind of addresses your blue fattie problem, no?

I'll have to ponder a bit if I have the space to run a big explicit splicer package, since I'm pretty much in titan land now (especially so if I add frost titan as a blue fattie). I like the idea of sharding sphinx, I had it in an original list that got changed before the first draft because I had so few artifacts and a friend pointed out that it's misleading you to believe otherwise, but with an artifact theme and some artifact creatures it could probably work! Like if I slam it at t6 I probably want to get in with an artifact creature to get that trigger before she gets killed off, but it has the upside of being able to get tinkered. More of an artifact-theme creature than just a big blue one (although it could probably be played there too).

I said this in another thread this week, but it's difficult to support both landfall aggro and humans as white weenie themes. It's tough to devote enough space for both packages to co-exist, and by trying to enable two archetypes, you may end up diluting both instead. You've also got the lifegain theme in white aggro, which overlaps the human camp a little bit, but again spreads the focus a bit thin. In a tight 360 list, I'd look to be executing one theme extremely well at the start. Then when that theme becomes a known quantity among your playgroup, you can dial back on it a little bit, and then try to layer on a second subtheme. I probably wouldn't try and support three subthemes right at the outset, though.

I think this is probably true. I think the lifegain theme takes pretty few slots, but during the 6-man (where a little bit of the cube is undrafted, granted) I can imagine people just didn't see clear enough of a draft-around-me theme in the cards just because it was spread out. I know they're there and well supported, but you have to make sense in the pack in your hand as well. Just cutting down the mono-colored themes in general seems fine, trying to focus on one or two themes that really stand out so that you feel good about making that deck come together after you first picked the build around.

Also, you might be right about Aetherling being the trickier and more rewarding card to play (which definitely was a goal). It definitely feels like a wincon for control where other big creatures can be snatched by X/u midrange decks. Maybe I should add master of predicaments anyway? Even though its a bit weak, it will help solidify blue as the 'tricky' color, which I'd like as a contrast to what was going on before. Again it's possible that I could add another treasure cruise unless I find another high-cmc card that can be hardcast but definitely adds more threat to the high-cmc predicament choice.

Tricky Blue Control / Blue Beef

Spoiler

now I know that jwar isle is a bit ugh but I'd rather try it out and feel if it's a mistake, because I added way more low-costed sweepers than I thought I needed and they haven't felt oppressive yet so I'm trying it out. Frosty is just there because I'm adding it (probably, havent considered the slot issues just yet) and FoF and Jace AoT are already in the cube but represent the same kind of blue decision-making cards I'm looking for more of.

Tinker Welder Sharding Spy

Spoiler

Some namesake cards, artifacts that other players would want like shrine and the weapons as well as big utility cards to fetch.

General To-Do List:

• Cut down on some redundancy, cut some archetypes in each color and make the ones that are left more tight and focused. Drafters should feel that "Figuring out" their decks during drafts is rewarding instead of them simmering through diluted hard-to-come-together themes. I have to be careful how I signal the existence of themes as a cube designer.
• Make the pair-identities stronger. I feel like there is still some pretty good feel for it, but just really hammer it home. This is early, people have mostly experience with modo-style cubes so working with the gold-section and tweaking things here and there should help.
• Find some more non-creature build-arounds , like shrine of loyal legions, tinker and somethingsomething. A player wanted to see more dredge, maybe add worm harvest?

 

[Chris Taylor]

Jar Jar Sphinx is in no way frustrating by the way. As a big dumb idiot without lifelink, it's perfectly possible to just win around it, and the slow durdly decks that might be threated by a shroudy flier have wraths to answer it.
It can be good if you're not totally on the back foot, but it's not like baneslayer or Gideon coming down and just stopping all hope they ever had of winning (but with shroud)

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Fyi trinket mage looks pretty bad here. I know there are some people here who have really tried to get him to work in this type of cube to no avail.

At low power, trinket mage is great. Grabing a trusty machete and attacking with a 4/3 on turn 4 is fine, and he is basically stoneforge mystic. At the highest power levels, he is great because the quality of the targets that you can grab are high enough to win the game.

You're kind of at an awkward midpoint where the body isn't relevant, and the targets aren't really impactful.

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

Hm. I was meaning to add some of the colorless eggs, shroud boots, maybe another bonesplitter, expediton map and artifact lands in the utility pile. I dunno if I want a civic wayfinder, but I could totally see targets for it. Or do you feel it's a completely hopeless case?

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

I'm leaning towards hopeless, just based on precident, but part of the experiment might bear fruit.

I can't remember if it was CML or Eric that tried the artifact lands in ULD, and it wasn't good enough. The eggs in my cube have all sorts of broad utility as one part of a mana puzzle that dosen't exist here. The body also isn't relevent.

I did a quick glance over 1cc artifacts. Outside of the usual spellbombs, capsules, life staffs and bonesplitters, there are a few interesting cards.




Because the body dosen't matter here, trinket is going to have to be justified on the power of the card it fetches. Artifact lands (especially with already powerful fixing), and an assortment of capsules, fair equipment, and spellbombs isn't going to do it, I think. Expedition map could be really good, if you have some powerful targets for it. The ULD probably could justify its inclusion.

The types of decks that would want trinket are going to lean towards the esoteric, I imagine, which might make it a poor fit in riptidish cubes.

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

Hm, might have to give up on it. It's not much of a build around without all the power cube mana rocks, and without it being a build around its pretty poisonous

 

[Eric Chan]

Yeah, it was me who tried Trinket Mage - along with Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas - for a long time, along with mediocre artifacts like Executioner's Capsule, and the artifact land package in the ULD. He wasn't very good, despite me having a huge soft spot for him, for the same reason that Borderland Ranger isn't very good.

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

Okay okay so in terms of my Tinker package (no ones told me I can't do it yet so..!! And now it's kind of a mini-obsession) this is my sketch at the moment:

Rocks

Spoiler

Robots

Spoiler

Utility

Spoiler

Pseudo Robots

Spoiler

Utility Land Draft Adds

Spoiler

Things to Tinker Into

Spoiler

White weenie and Land Destruction
I was thinking of some disruption against the lands, esp could help with the utility lands in the future. Is it worth running land destruction main? Or does putting in the UTL sort of make it self-fixing, because UTL enables both hard to deal with, powerful lands, as well as a way to actually attack the lands. I think CML runs Leonin Arbiter that combats both pod (which won the first draft) and the lands, giving a W/x weenie strategy an edge vs very powerful 3-color decks. Running white aggression as Humans / Disruption sounds like a nice and clear direction that both expands into other colors as well as being a theme that at least for me sounds rewarding to run monocolored as well.

• What's the best way to slot tinker into the cube in its current state, as a utility tool and occasional answerable wincon cheat?
• What's the best way to give white some powerful but interesting disruption? I'm thinking land destruction and more hate bears like mardu woe-reaper.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

I really don't care for land destruction effects in general because they create non-games. If you are going to run land destruction effects, its probably better to run them at higher CC, so they just don't cripple someone guy dealing with mana screw. Acidic slime is the model card i.m.o.

What you could do is run pithing needle. You can shut off utility lands with it, and its also both a good tinker sacrifice target and tinker tutor target.

There are a few other "I care about artifact cards" that I think should be given some discussion, though perhaps not actually ran.



The direction that seems to be pushed is two types of artifact decks.

1. A U/R base deck built around a strategy of sacrificing artifacts to tutor in monsters, while recuring the sacrificed cards from the graveyard. You could design that deck in a few ways. It could be a tier 1 deck built around tinker haymakers but also capable of playing a long attrition game. Or it could be a fair graveyard based attrition deck.

2. A UB base control deck that wants to use mana rocks to fuel its control game.

Both decks seem very deterministic though, due to all of the potential tutors. The more powerful the plays are, the more important it is that the fair decks be able to disrupt them.

I listed Arcum dagsson because its kind of neat how he doubles as non-poisonous artifact removal.

I think onderzeeboot runs dragon, so it might be playable here?

I've listed the totems, because I see you already have at least 1 3cc mana rock, and the totems are really interesting i.m.o. They ramp, they act as a mana sink, you can make mistakes with them, and they are priced fairly. They also fit nicely into that UB deck, since tezzeret can use them to both ramp and set ambushes.

If you implement a reasonable artifact theme, you might not need to worry too much about it being difficult to interact with pod (your other more deterministic deck), as the artifact density means that you can start to add artifact hate without it being too narrow.

A lot of exciting options though.

I've personally never had success with a hatebears strategy in cube, but maybe some people have and could share?

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

In terms of land destruction just a note I was thinking more in terms of ghost quarter and tectonic edge than wasteland. Hatebears might end up just as a W/x sub theme, but I run thalia and imposing sovereign already so it'd feel good to just help that a little bit in a way that might actually benefit the format.

Have people had success with UB tezzeret before though? I know there are some old threads, definitely helps solidify the theme more. Thanks for the input! Sheds some light on the different flavors of artifact-tech-decks

 

[Eric Chan]

Yeah, a pile of Tectonic Edges in the utility pile goes a long way towards reining in the rampant destruction caused by wanton Gavony Townships, Celestial Colonnades, Vault of the Archangels, Treetop Villages, and even Nephalia Drownyards. Some of these lands are really powerful, and it's good to have answers to these difficult-to-interact-with nonbasics.

 

[Chris Taylor]

I just want to put the last nail in trinket mage's coffin here:
what the hell land are you in so desperate need of that you want to pay 2U for trinket mage, then 1 for map, then 2 to activate it?

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

I just want to put the last nail in trinket mage's coffin here:
what the hell land are you in so desperate need of that you want to pay 2U for trinket mage, then 1 for map, then 2 to activate it?

A bounceland so you can generate tons of mana in grillos bounceland cube!

 

[safra]

I just want to put the last nail in trinket mage's coffin here:
what the hell land are you in so desperate need of that you want to pay 2U for trinket mage, then 1 for map, then 2 to activate it?

I've jumped through that hoop for Kessig Wolf Run and Drownyard. Also, Engineered Explosives and Chalice count as trinkets, too!

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

I've jumped through that hoop for Kessig Wolf Run and Drownyard. Also, Engineered Explosives and Chalice count as trinkets, too!

yeah but probably its just better to go vampiric or enlightened for that instead of going through a bunch of hoops via trinket mage. But trinket mage is still a fun card, see grillos bouncecube.