Card/Deck Restrictive Reanimation (or, tell me about awesome 2-drops)

Laz

Developer
An idea that I have had rattling around in my head for a while now has been a wider use of restrictive reanimation spells, spells that offer reanimation for value rather than just being a way to cheat fatties into play, as well as moving reanimation out of Black (my experiment with moving it to White was interesting, but ultimately not very impactful, as Breath of Life and Miraculous Recovery are not great cards).
The cards I have been considering for this are as follows:

These cards feel a little all over the place though. I am not too concerned about Alesha, Sun Titan or Reveillark, since they have quite a pedigree, and can be abused, in the case of Alesha and Reveillark, with cards like Phantasmal Image, Priest of the Blood Rite, Riftwing Cloudskate and the like who just happen to have <=2 power. Likewise, Sun Titan is super strong, and can always find value, even if it is just returning a fetch-land.
Return to the Ranks, on the other hand, is asking for some pretty specific deck-building things to go right, as is Rally the Ancestors, which is really looking for some sort of combo. I am confident that many of these cards can co-exist, but the biggest issue is finding creatures to support this style of deck.

One line is that these tie into a sac-shell, forming an Aristocrats style deck that can combo with Rally the Ancestors or Return to the Ranks. This might require multiple Blood Artists, which scares me a little. A possible weakness is that these spells don't work with token makers unless they start with a body, such as Nest Invader or Mogg War Marshal. This sort of deck also wants grave enablers, and Satyr Wayfinder is a nice option to cross things over here. Sacrifice outlets that get returned also seem valuable.

Another line is a Fires-style shell, though I am not sure what that theme really manifests itself as. The recent standard Rally decks used Mogis's Marauder, but that seems like a pretty poor card in a vacuum. I don't really like Anger, but maybe it fits. Options in reanimate-able creature form are Lightning Mauler, which I have played before, but it is not a very interesting card.

Ojutai's Command is probably only worth playing if you can return a creature at least some of the time, though it is fine as Dismiss or pseudo-Absorb too. Wall of Omens and Augur of Bolas spring to mind as card-advantage options, and there are some disruptive options such as Imposing Sovereign. Snapcaster Mage is of course the dream, but that requires so much mana...

Ultimately I think these effects boil down to whether there is a critical mass of lowish (2/3-drops) CMC creatures that are worth returning. ETBs and LTB effects seem very valuable, and there is no shortage of those at 3 CMC, but at 2 CMC, I would love some suggestions.

In addition are there any effects or cool interactions I have missed with the above cards? (EDIT: Collected Company! Of course!) I know there are some other cards with similar effects (though they are of wildly varying quality)...
Driver of the Dead
Immortal Servitude
Order of Whiteclay
Orzhov Charm
Swift Warkite
Proclamation of Rebirth
 

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
Well I could just go through gatherer and plug out some cool 2-drops with sweet abilities, but let others do that first and I can comb the trawls for the forgotten guys.

I just want to show a couple of decks have been drafted from some cubes here that have used some of the cards you have mentioned.
While the first obvious thing to go with this theme is aristocrats, the first thing that came to my mind was Aluren. As it has sort of the same restrictions, can allow itself to the same deck and even fits collected company as well!

Bant Enduring Aluren from CubeTutor.com










This deck looked pretty sweet, and a Returned to the Ranks would fit nicely in this deck as well. The other main engine this deck has going is Enduring Renewal. I know this isn't in the wheelhouse of your restricted reanimation, but allows for some interesting build-arounds and can fit the same decks. As they all feel they want an abundance of value dudes and sac effects.

Now for other Enduring Renewal deck more focussed on Returned to the Ranks:

Enduring to the Proc from CubeTutor.com










An attempt to get Proclamation of Rebirth to work and it looks like it could be competitive. Although, since this was one of the community cubes, there are a lot of weird cards in there, but it does help get the creative juices flowing.

I feel for these decks to be able to hit a decent power level in higher powered cubes you are going to have to double up on those blood artists.

Grillo has been trying out Rally in his redesign Innistrad cube to some interesting results.

G/W/b rally combo from CubeTutor.com









The fact there is an increasing number of green sac outlets helps these kind of decks come together (even though Evo Leap is the only sac outlet here).

Hopefully that gives some ideas on where this tiny reanimation theme can lead to. But if I have to suggest a 2-drop to enable some fancy decks, I must pick this fine lady:



A bear that gives more sac value by redoing an EtB effect/dies effect on one of your creatures. Plus allows and infinite combo with Reveillark and a sac outlet. Seems like the perfect card!
 

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Ive been on the hunt for value weenies too. Their might be some tech to gleam from this thread http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/creatures-with-neutral-card-economy.883/page-2

However, I think its hardly exhaustive. I ended up running a bunch of boarderland ranger cards (which have been great) and black "rat" cards. The whole thing is (of course with me) inspired by a pauper strategy where you ran small value weenies alongside sweepers and unearth.

If you are just looking for etbs, rather than the creature being card neutral, that opens things up. I'm kind of on a kick lately with evoke and echo creatures, because they go direct to the yard and provide a sac. Trigger. Bone shredder and mulldrifter seem fantastic for this. Also love safi as a dual reanimation piece/target.

this is a set of interactions which it is easy to overload on; I would guess 2 non-creature versions in a 360 cube per color?
 
this seems more like side seasoning to me than the makings of a draft strategy or archetype.
If you stock your cube with satyrs and 2 power value guys and ways to rebuy them you can see that you're gonna end up with a lot of decks that try to durdle against each other in boardstalls for ever until one overwhelms the other or draws it's gavony township.

That said I do love a lot of this stuff! Lark, Alesha, Profane and Ojutai's Commands are really interesting and neato cards to me but in the same kinda way kolaghans command is and you should go easy on trying to enable it as a plan. You don't wana to make a format where crystal shard is just the tops.

The more infinite eternal witness decks I can play the better, but honestly I don't think people want to see that archetype every draft, I know I like it as a treat.
 

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
Scalable creatures are awesome with these types of cards. Returning Soldier of the Pantheon is iffy, but returning Figure of Destiny, Warden of the First Tree or Student of Warfare is likely a beating because you have mana available. Serra Avenger is another strong target based on raw stats for the casting cost.
 

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
Kirblinx, did you build those decks from your cube? If so, I want to play your cube.

I wish these came from my cube. I just have a terrible peasant cube. I draft a lot of cubes here so hopefully their ideas rub off on me and I can create an environment I can be proud of.

You can click the links on each of the decks to take you to the cubes I got them from. The first was Turillazzo's Innistrad cube, the second was Bumbeh's 4-at-a-time cube and the last was Grillo's redesign cube. All are very fun cubes to draft.

So, onto the need two drops with value clause. Shall we start with white?
The King and Queen:

The First Command:

The Expendibles:

The Replacements:

The Medics:

The Backup:

The SWAT team:

The Cleanup Crew:

The Allies:


Almost didn't include the allies, but maybe there might be enough aggressively costed allies in BFZ that make them possible worthwhile (I don't think that will happen).
 

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Unearth is best with dudes that either send themselves to the yard with an ETB or LTB, or will soon likely find themselves in the yard. Having a CC of 3 is also beneficial, because it lets you sequence out a two drop and get a 3 drop in the same turn. Some cards I like/have liked/would like:


 


Are there more cool Unearth interactions?

I want to add Unearth to my cube just so I can Intuition for that group of three. BTW, both Intuition and Gifts Ungiven seem worth mentioning in this thread. They would be nice support for a UW or UB tempo-aggro deck with recursion themes like these. 2Shieldz Jackson and Gravecrawler love it, too.

Green/white does seem like it would do well with this theme. Here are a few more in that combination that haven't been mentioned:

Voice of Resurgence
Qasali Pridemage
Reclamation Sage
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Acidic Slime
Deranged Hermit
Fleecemane Lion
Birthing Pod
Survival of the Fittest

Edit: also if you're doing this theme, Victimize is probably worth a look, too.
 

FlowerSunRain

Contributor
Intuition is amazingly awesome. Just play it, please. Gifts Ungiven has the unintutive (lololol) fail to find thing going on and costs 4, but if you can live with that its pretty cool. Realms Uncharted guarantees two land drops and stuffs your graveyard with lands, but probably has no place in a thread about reanimation unless you really want to bring back dryad arbor.
 

Chris Taylor

Contributor
I'm not sure entirely how related this is, but I've been looking at the Aristocrats standard deck during Innistrad/RTR, and it has a lot of similar elements:
Creatures (23)
Planeswalkers (1)
Lands (24)

Spells (12)
Sideboard
This is Brad Nelson's List from a bit later on in the format, but there's a lot of interesting synergy:
-Cartel Aristocrat/Falkenrath Aristocrat are both creatures that survive blasphemous act (Probably something you want to explore more with these two rather than junk like Silver Knight)
-Blood Artist and Boros Reckoner combine well with blasphemous act as well
-Skirsdag High Priest works well with creature based sac outlets: Doomed Traveler --> Skirsdag High Priest --> Cartel Aristocrat nets a demon on T3

And if I think about it, Return to the Ranks would be pretty sweet in here as well. I'm latching more onto the idea of playing a sweeper (Blasphemous Act) in an otherwise aggro deck and feeling good about it, but still.
 

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Similarly, here is the pauper unearth based list whose ideas I ripped off.
MBC-Rats
SneakAttackKid June 2013
Creatures
3 Augur of Skulls
4 Chittering Rats
3 Crypt Rats
2 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
4 Phyrexian Rager
3 Ravenous Rats
19 cards

Other Spells
3 Dead Weight
2 Echoing Decay
4 Geth's Verdict
2 Duress
4 Sign in Blood
3 Unearth
2 Polluted Mire
20 cards Lands
17 Swamp
4 Barren Moor
21 cards

Sideboard
1 Okiba-Gang Shinobi
2 Rendclaw Trow
1 Snuff Out
1 Sorin's Thirst
2 Tendrils of Corruption
1 Victim of Night
4 Choking Sands
2 Corrupt
1 Duress
15 cards


Like chris' aristocrate list, one of the features of the deck is the ability to run creatures alongside a wrath effect (crypt rats). This allows the deck to run a number of card advantage and tempo generating rats.

Usually discard strategies have a weakness that they leave an opponent to win off of the TOL, but this deck can exert pressure from its value generating rats. If it has to wrath, thats fine, because the rats are card neutral. One of the ways a lot of opponents lose to this deck (and the boros kitty deck) is that they don't realize that their removal trades are actual card disadvantage for them, and get caught in a downward attrition spiral of their own making.

Because of the pressure being placed on their hand, it encourages opponents to play out their hand, right into the waiting wrath effects.

Unearth becomes a powerful tool to get back the deck's wrath, while also letting it get ahead by inches due to the value ETBs of its targets.

Here is a penny cube version of it; I couldn't draft an unearth in any of my examples, but you can imagine how good it would be.

UB Ninjas from CubeTutor.com












Here is the jund deck from last week, which also ran wraths alongside value generating weenies: e.g. the civic wayfinder that ramps you up to your wrath effects. The reanimation piece in this deck is wort, who gets back a bunch of sweet cards that will probably have died to your own wraths.

Penny Jund








 

Laz

Developer
Wow. Teysa is one spicy meatball.

There definitely looks like there are enough solid cards here in order to be able to justify this sub-theme in a reasonably high powered environment, and the concept of being able to run sweepers in aggressive decks is a neat one. I have been looking for ways to get away from Sligh in higher power environments, and that style of grindy aggressive deck seems great. I am a little concerned that all of my aggressive decks are going to end up tending toward recursive sac-aggro, but that isn't the worst.

I think, given most cubes already run a lot of the above cards, Return to the Ranks can probably slot in without much thought. Rally really wants sacrifice outlets (to avoid the exile clause) or a way to grant haste. Ogre Battledriver maybe? Is it worth trying to make Rally the Ancestors work?
 
The rally decks I've seen seem to function like a combo variant of the other abzan midrange decks, so you have some early value guys and a couple of good blockers to get you up to 4 mana to land a midrange fatty (here, it's the standard behemoth Siege Rhino) to stabilize for the critical 6-7 mana turn where you just rally up your entire graveyard to one-shot your opponent.

Abzan Rally - RandomDrooler
MTGO Standard Daily

Creatures (26)
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Courser of Kruphix
2 Merciless Executioner
4 Nyx Weaver
4 Satyr Wayfinder
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
4 Siege Rhino
3 Sylvan Caryatid

Others Spells (12)
3 Commune with the Gods
1 Crux of Fate
2 Abzan Charm
1 Murderous Cut
4 Rally the Ancestors
1 Whip of Erebos

Land (22)
1 Caves of Koilos
4 Forest
2 Llanowar Wastes
1 Plains
4 Sandsteppe Citadel
2 Temple of Malady
1 Temple of Plenty
2 Temple of Silence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Windswept Heath

We've had some GB/x selfmill stuff going on in our cubes previously but I'm not sure we've ever had a talk about what it's good at what it's bad at in terms of fun and depth in the cube.

Rally the ancestors as a combo piece for durdly midrange decks I think could actually work to make the format more fun if the critical turn is more exciting than "I reanimate my pingers for the win" like it is in standard. I think it could condense down the games with durdly mirange since rally-decks have a very clear wincon. You have this looming threat the game suddenly revolves around.

Combining it with the haste-theme we talked about earlier sounds pretty interesting, as it gives a little more edge and play to the turn than just autowinning but can still OTK your opponent.

If a deck is playing rally the ancestors it needs to:
  • Be able to fill its graveyard with enough creatures that you feel like you're getting your fortunes worth
  • Have good blockers to be able to live long enough to combo off
  • Be able to function without Rally with some alternative threats,
  • And have ways to tutor up Rally, or return it from the graveyard if you mill it
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Wait, I am confused. How does Rally actually make these decks win? I don't see a haste generator, so they can't attack. Are they just recycling Rhino and Grey Merchant triggers as a win-con?
 

James Stevenson

Steamflogger Boss
Staff member
Did anybody mention this?

Seems like it could have lots of neat interactions. If your lark or Sun Titan are gunna die you can get them back. All the conditional reanimators return it too. It's even a human, so that nifty angel can reanimate it.
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Did anybody mention this?

Seems like it could have lots of neat interactions. If your lark or Sun Titan are gunna die you can get them back. All the conditional reanimators return it too. It's even a human, so that nifty angel can reanimate it.

You know that's an infinite combo with those cards and a sac outlet, right? Is that what we want?
 

James Stevenson

Steamflogger Boss
Staff member
You know that's an infinite combo with those cards and a sac outlet, right? Is that what we want?

Maybe. It takes three cards to pull off and fails to a removal spell. That seems fine. I have players who really love combo and hate that there aren't any in my cube, so I'd be happy to run some fiddly combo like this. And Saffi is super cool in pod, and I love pod.
 

Laz

Developer
Maybe. It takes three cards to pull off and fails to a removal spell. That seems fine. I have players who really love combo and hate that there aren't any in my cube, so I'd be happy to run some fiddly combo like this. And Saffi is super cool in pod, and I love pod.

This is my stance too. Three-card infinite combos are fine. Two-card combos? Well, that is pushing it. While we are down this line, do you think that the 'Nifty Angel' is worth it?

Aside: New Blood Artist, who doesn't randomly hose the opposing Birthing Pod player! That was one of the most awkward situations that I ever found myself in... Birthing Pod gets a lot worse when it is costing you 3+ life per turn.
 
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