General The Commander Hybrid Mana Rules Change, and Why I'm Frustrated with Commander Players

[MilesOfficial]

I just don't get it. I used to be Maro-level upset that cards like these were available in green:



It felt wrong! Green's not supposed to get these kinds of things!

But then Tarkir came out and I listened to Drive to Work and realized I was getting heated for literally no reason. I decided still that in my Cube, I wouldn't play with things that I felt were counter to the spirit of the color pie, but like, it's really not that serious.

WotC has made some design mistakes in hybrid. They're almost all from Eventide. None of them are more egregious than the green cards I listed above. Both the intent and the literal purpose of hybrid is to be "either/or" and it's really annoying to see the Commander community being so semantically obtuse that it's negatively effecting WotC's design space. I loooooove hybrid. It's so great for draft, and thus great for Cube. There's literally no reason to stop people from playing Afterlife Insurance in their mono-white decks or mono-black decks.

 

[Seeker]

Also, to make a non-shitpost argument:
These people are trying to convince me that if they sit down opposite someone playing Isamaru, Hound of Konda as their general who goes turn one Isamaru, Kobolds of Kher Keep, Crookshank Kobolds, their reaction is anything other than "haha nice"?

They do not have the heart of a 12-year-old on a picnic table with a 78 card unsleeved deck that has like an Avatar of Might and a Searing Wind in it or something. They will never capture a legendary Pokemon.

 

[ravnic]

Hmm, a rules change for Hybrid riiight before Lorwyn Eclipsed when Wizards/Hasbro will have a financial stake in having the rules change go through...

Sadly, ECL seemingly won't have much more hybrid than other current sets, based on number crunch. Ashlings Command is probably one of the first multicolor cards (they put them together) at 205 and Blood Crypt is the first land, most likely, at 262. That leaves up ~60 cards, but there would also be colorless cards among these. So if they're generous, we'll get 50 cards with ci=2. Being generous again, maayybe we get 35 hybrids in this set.

Yeah, I know. I was also hyped to get at least double that from the shadowmoor half.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

Sadly, ECL seemingly won't have much more hybrid than other current sets, based on number crunch. Ashlings Command is probably one of the first multicolor cards (they put them together) at 205 and Blood Crypt is the first land, most likely, at 262. That leaves up ~60 cards, but there would also be colorless cards among these. So if they're generous, we'll get 50 cards with ci=2. Being generous again, maayybe we get 35 hybrids in this set.

Yeah, I know. I was also hyped to get at least double that from the shadowmoor half.

This is probably the single largest issue with the standalone set era: sometimes they aren't able to fit the volume of certain mechanics we would like into the single set.

I can't really think of a solution to this other than bleeding themes more between sets. I think not doing blocks has been a net positive for set design, but I think they need to be a little more proactive about building throughlines between sets.

 

[Rasmus Källqvist]

This is probably the single largest issue with the standalone set era: sometimes they aren't able to fit the volume of certain mechanics we would like into the single set.

I can't really think of a solution to this other than bleeding themes more between sets. I think not doing blocks has been a net positive for set design, but I think they need to be a little more proactive about building throughlines between sets.

I honestly think it would be really cool if they'd have 2 back-to-back sets that are quite different flavor wise but re-purpose the same mechanics. I dunno, like an Innistrad set with flashback as a "graveyard" thing and maybe strixhaven where flashback is some kind of remember-what-you-studied flavored thing

 

[Onderzeeboot]

The dumbest thing about this whole hybrid thing is that the Commander rules are literally unintuitive for new players. I’ve seen multiple new commander players try and play hybrid cards in their deck that didn’t match the color identity of their commander…

 

[LadyMapi]

I honestly think it would be really cool if they'd have 2 back-to-back sets that are quite different flavor wise but re-purpose the same mechanics. I dunno, like an Innistrad set with flashback as a "graveyard" thing and maybe strixhaven where flashback is some kind of remember-what-you-studied flavored thing

I'd be down for WotC doing a deep-dive year where every set has to pull from the same pool of mechanics, kinda like how 2021 went hard on double-sided cards.

 

[Mown]

Why These Fears are Overblown and Why Unification Should Happen
But here’s the thing: all of those arguments miss the point. The current rule isn’t protecting the format’s identity — it’s misrepresenting how Magic’s own design language works. Hybrid mana was literally created to represent “either/or” costs. When you play Kitchen Finks, you’re able to pay either or in addition to both. Every other Magic format, from Standard to Modern to Limited, treats hybrid mana this way. Commander’s hybrid rule has never reflected how hybrid was actually designed to function. From a design perspective hybrid mana represents “either/or,” not “both/and,” a fact Mark Rosewater has been stating since Shadowmoor. The mechanic was intended to expand creative deckbuilding, not restrict it. Commander is the only format that redefines it as “and.” That inconsistency has caused confusion for years, especially for new players coming from other formats who suddenly have to unlearn what hybrid mana “means” just to build a deck.

Commander is also the only format where you have extraordinary access to a legendary permanent with extremely wonky rules regarding state-based actions and tracking how much combat damage it has dealt, its rules are its identity. Magic has several mechanic whose design intent are undermined by the color identity rules. Fire // Ice, Joint Exploration, Dismember, Street Wraith, Plargg, Dean of Chaos, Codie, Vociferous Codex, Zombie Cutthroat, Dig Up, Phyrexian Metamorph, reanimate targeting Greater Sandwurm. The commander identity rule is as much an aesthetic and thematic rule, the core gameplay already has a tension between having more cards and having a more strenuous mana base, the only way to align it is to abolish it altogether, unless you want to go back to the old days of not being able to produce off-color mana. Having your mono-red deck full of creatures with green and white card frames that dies to Reign of Terror feels weird. I think you're missing the point just as much.

The dumbest thing about this whole hybrid thing is that the Commander rules are literally unintuitive for new players. I’ve seen multiple new commander players try and play hybrid cards in their deck that didn’t match the color identity of their commander…

Well, you're not going to find many people frustrated that the rules conform to their expectation, I think it's pretty likely a large group of players would be surprised to find out that they can play Manamorphose in their mono red deck, but not Fire / Ice.

For what it's worth I think changing the rules regarding hybrid mana would be a net benefit to commander, but I a) don't care that much about commander and b) don't care much about wotc's chief stated concern of "it's hard to design hybrid cards for commander" as I'd rather they didn't make cards explicitly for commander to begin with.

 

[Rusje]

unless you want to go back to the old days of not being able to produce off-color mana

This would be fine right?
Thing is: the ban list/rule zero is weird altogether. No mass land destruction, so ramp is stronger than it should be, and so on.

As with most casual formats, each player has different expectations/desires which makes games weird (do not get me started on pay to win). Playing heavily restricted formats (block/planet) mitigate part of the problem but none come close to:
Cube
Curated box of decks.
Problem of cube/battle box/curated box/block constructed/limited is that either one has to pony up all the cards (and if not careful forces their own desires onto others) or one is at the whims of the greedy overlords.

 

[Mown]

This would be fine right?

I believe it was changed largely because you couldn't use cards you stole from your opponents, and maybe partially because it's kind of weird. Most of the modern theft cards these days let you use any color of mana to cast them though, so it would probably be fine.
edit: it also gave you a kind of weird way to cast cards that actually required colorless mana.