Calling it right now, that first art is
I mean look at it.
Well... I was damn close
Sets Battle for Zendikar Spoilers
- Thread starter Eric Chan
- Start date
Well... I was damn close
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I feel like a lot of the themes going on in this set necessitate including a bunch of related cards to solidify them. There's probably a lot of hard cuts to make if you want to incorporate BfZ in your cube!
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
I'm completely avoiding allies, colorless matters, superramp and the exile zone, but the landfall and vampire cards are doing it for me. I'm going to sharpie some random vampire into a 1 drop pridemate.
I really want to see someone sharpie Drana's Emissary to be good. I feel like she just needs one extra "point" somewhere to put her into contention for a WB slot—that or maybe turn her hybrid?
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
It hits for 3 a turn (1 triggered, 2 flying) and gains 1 life a turn (also triggered). That puts it at the same level of offense as the typical cube flying three drops (serendib efreet, clique, gettergeist). I think if you wanted to buff you would raise the toughness up or keyword. Vigilance/Deathtouch would be a strong combo, but one keyword might be fine. 4 toughness would also be strong, because if needed she can block a lot of creatures, but still put on pressure with the drain effect.
Any opinions on half a blood artist? It's worse, but most of us have been cautious about adding a second.
Might this be a good middle ground?
This guy has a few (minor) things going for him:
1. POWER. While its usually not relevant, he can indeed attack!
2. Relevant typing: he's a Human! And the decks that care about Humans are typically the same as the ones that care about Blood Artist. Curving Champion into this guy seems like a great opener
Well... I was damn close
WHAT? How do flying tentacles for you to lose flying, when PINNING YOU TO THE GROUND doesn't. Lmao
you can't pin a bird to the ground very easily! but you can grab it w. a sea octopus
hth
I'll comment more in depth but after reading the spoilers I'm really feeling this set. I love how clear the identity is on Zendikar's wild life, it's population and the Eldrazi. A lot of neat processors, making the whole exile library thing feel more sensible. Also we're back at sweet 6+ mana activated abilities! Perfect mana dump haymakers.
Kingpin's pet treatment- make it cost
P.S. I'm ready to get wrecked by this card for the entirety of its draft lifespan
*vomit*
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Kingpin's pet treatment- make it cost
P.S. I'm ready to get wrecked by this card for the entirety of its draft lifespan
*vomit*
Yes, I to lose to Fog and Solidarity on the regular
Look closer, it's a one-sided Fog that can make a dude to blow you out with. Seems pretty Limited-good to me.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
That's fine, it still has the same problems both those cards do, and the same problem tanglesap does: they're horrible unless you're winning
Also, small note:
Why are these in the same set? o.O
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
So we can choose to put either Clutch or both into our cubes.That's fine, it still has the same problems both those cards do, and the same problem tanglesap does: they're horrible unless you're winning
Also, small note:
Why are these in the same set? o.O
Yeah, Safe Passage was a pretty big blowout back in the day... and this one even spawns a creature!
I think FSR hit the nail on the head. The allies and colourless themes are unfortunately both linear and tribal (kinda), and ingest is probably too weak to make "their exiled cards matter" worthwhile in cube, but everything outside of that is still worthwhile.
I think FSR hit the nail on the head. The allies and colourless themes are unfortunately both linear and tribal (kinda), and ingest is probably too weak to make "their exiled cards matter" worthwhile in cube, but everything outside of that is still worthwhile.
Not to sound presumptuous or condescending, but... I assume you don't play much limited? Bashing creatures into each other in combat is where the majority of retail limited games are decided, as removal is pretty weak in this day and age; protecting your whole team is not a small game. Even when you're behind, you can play this while making blocks on the defensive, and probably nab a two-for-one pretty regularly.
I slightly disagree with this. The exile-matters theme has enough incidental support (see my earlier post about stuff I am running right now that triggers it) that you can probably run a couple cards that only need 1 enemy card exiled to function. Like that sexy black 3-drop that -3/-3s a guy, for example. I wouldn't go whole-hog on the theme in a "normal" cube though.
Also, on colorless matters, a dibby-dab of it is probably also worthwhile, because it triggers off artifacts. For example, the UR eldrazi that makes your colorless stuff cost less is probably pretty good. The 6-cost sorcery that lets your colorless dudes fight, not so much. It just depends on how deep you want the "theme" to go as to how radically you'd have to restructure your cube.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Clutch of Currents is pretty good. I'm not sure if its silent departure good, but I wouldn't feel bad running it.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
There's a few problems with that approach. Three mana is a lot for a combat trick, especially one that doesn't work on smaller creatures. Spidery Grasp lets your creatures trade up, this doesn't. Barring bizzare limited formats like scars of mirrordin where everything had 1 toughness, typically slamming teams of creatures into each other doesn't end with them all trading, it ends with their 5/5 blocking your 4/4, their 4/4 blocking your 3/3, and so forth down the line. I'm also really wary of the logic that you "can nab a two for one" pretty regularly. Having multiple bodies on the table unmolested most of which can trade with opposing creatures isn't a small ask, and the "Better Haze frog" kicker and Psudo ephemeral shields modes don't really change that for me.
Safe Passage was an okay card, but I remember it more being a card that occasionally made your deck, rather than something I anticipate losing to often.
Safe Passage was actually always better on defence than on offence. You can gang block, and then make some pretty profitable trades.
I almost always played the first copy, but usually not the second or third. It was tricky to time when exactly to actually deploy it - do I just get the one-for-one now, or should I wait two turns until I can confidently nab a two-for-one? - but even at its worst, it wasn't hard to turn it into a Divine Verdict.
If you played Safe Passage only in M13, it probably wasn't at its best, as I remember white being pretty weak in that format. Back in M10 and M11, though, where slower, attrition-based decks ruled the roost and UW fliers was king, you better believe that Safe Passage led you straight to Blowout City.
I almost always played the first copy, but usually not the second or third. It was tricky to time when exactly to actually deploy it - do I just get the one-for-one now, or should I wait two turns until I can confidently nab a two-for-one? - but even at its worst, it wasn't hard to turn it into a Divine Verdict.
If you played Safe Passage only in M13, it probably wasn't at its best, as I remember white being pretty weak in that format. Back in M10 and M11, though, where slower, attrition-based decks ruled the roost and UW fliers was king, you better believe that Safe Passage led you straight to Blowout City.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Yeah, it was pretty great at turning games where you were in a losing position around.
didn't they make prowess evergreen btw? looks like someone fucked up at WotC: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/129362482033/is-there-a-reason-that-theres-no-prowess-in-bfz
There are also only two cards with scry and I think two with menace. Menace is about = to how often we got intimidate, but I'm surprised at so little scry.
Tonight, on "Matters of Intrigue"!
Noyan Dar is totally making my list; he looks like a lot of fun. Between him, Retreat to Coralhelm, and Knight of the Reliquary shenanigans with Coralhelm, I'm feeling a Bant lands theme emerge. This is helped especially by the new UG manland and the 3 WG manlands I already run. Awaken Cards seem like a good way to beef up Noyan Dar and this emerging, potential lands theme, but which are playable?
Hero's Downfall has always been high on my cut list, but maybe this swap will reinvigorate my interest. It deviates from the Bant-lands idea, but it seems plenty useable.
Recently, I cut Rout, because I wanted to dial back on wraths as I bolstered white's token powers. However, I realized that I didn't want to do that - I wanted to cut from white 4-mana wraths. I have come to the opinion that 4-mana aggro wreckers are probably an artifact from Magic constructed days of yore; when consistent aggro decks could run you over, and you needed that T4 midrange/control response. I am deviating from that concept, and pushing 5-mana aggro wreckers instead where possible. I still run Wrath of God (which is gorgeous in white border imho), but I kept Rout. With Day of Judgment and Parallax Wave gone, I actually finally found myself picking Rout and playing it. It turns out that a 5-mana wrath is still really awesome, and potentially better than a 4-mana wrath, since it can eat more, but also allows your opponent to jab in a bit more, too, which increases the tension between aggressive and durdle/control/midrange decks. I've liked that. While I'm beginning to ramble, my point is: modal 5-mana Rout is awesome once you reduce 4-mana wraths, and I'm thinking Planar Outburst will be an exciting tool in that direction. I'm not sure if I'll cut Rout for it (that Kieryluk art is the hotness), but this seems great to me.
I like lifelink, a lot, and a 6-drop hasty 4/4 that ETB and gives the crew lifelink for a turn seems pretty tasty. But perhaps it's too niche? I love modal spells, though, and anthem effects can be fun. I'm not sure where I stand with this guy.
This really intrigues me! A bounce early if you need it, a bounce and body late if you don't. I had to cut Silent Departure due to blue's power level being bonkers for a bit, but I've missed it. The new dilemma seems to be: do I give up flashback for a body? I'm not sure how I feel about that.
This seems super narrow, but I'm open-minded. I don't think I'll have enough cards for her to routinely fetch up, but the synergy Noyan Dar and all the manlands in my ULD seem pretty tempting, her body is acceptable, and she's both a Human and a Wizard (Riptide Laboratory yaaaas), so, maybe, but only if I find myself packing a few cards that she could actually grab when she ETB.
In an entirely different direction, I'm also pretty intrigued by this new sac outlet:
I really, really wish that activation cost was just, but I've seen Evolutionary Leap put in some serious work, and this not only draws you a card, but also gives you 1 life, which isn't the worst bonus you could ask for. I'm not sure if it's quite strong enough to go nuts for, but the idea of swinging with Bloodsoaked Champion, saccing him to this, and then Raiding him back onto the battlefield seem interesting as a worst-case scenario; 2 damage, 1 life, and draw a card for ? That's not the best deal I've ever seen, true, but it's a fine baseline, I think, and is the sort of durdlefest attrition play/late-game mana sink I'm interested in exploring. My black 1-drop section is getting more stacked every day, though, so I'm a bit concerned about fit.
Noyan Dar is totally making my list; he looks like a lot of fun. Between him, Retreat to Coralhelm, and Knight of the Reliquary shenanigans with Coralhelm, I'm feeling a Bant lands theme emerge. This is helped especially by the new UG manland and the 3 WG manlands I already run. Awaken Cards seem like a good way to beef up Noyan Dar and this emerging, potential lands theme, but which are playable?
Hero's Downfall has always been high on my cut list, but maybe this swap will reinvigorate my interest. It deviates from the Bant-lands idea, but it seems plenty useable.
Recently, I cut Rout, because I wanted to dial back on wraths as I bolstered white's token powers. However, I realized that I didn't want to do that - I wanted to cut from white 4-mana wraths. I have come to the opinion that 4-mana aggro wreckers are probably an artifact from Magic constructed days of yore; when consistent aggro decks could run you over, and you needed that T4 midrange/control response. I am deviating from that concept, and pushing 5-mana aggro wreckers instead where possible. I still run Wrath of God (which is gorgeous in white border imho), but I kept Rout. With Day of Judgment and Parallax Wave gone, I actually finally found myself picking Rout and playing it. It turns out that a 5-mana wrath is still really awesome, and potentially better than a 4-mana wrath, since it can eat more, but also allows your opponent to jab in a bit more, too, which increases the tension between aggressive and durdle/control/midrange decks. I've liked that. While I'm beginning to ramble, my point is: modal 5-mana Rout is awesome once you reduce 4-mana wraths, and I'm thinking Planar Outburst will be an exciting tool in that direction. I'm not sure if I'll cut Rout for it (that Kieryluk art is the hotness), but this seems great to me.
I like lifelink, a lot, and a 6-drop hasty 4/4 that ETB and gives the crew lifelink for a turn seems pretty tasty. But perhaps it's too niche? I love modal spells, though, and anthem effects can be fun. I'm not sure where I stand with this guy.
This really intrigues me! A bounce early if you need it, a bounce and body late if you don't. I had to cut Silent Departure due to blue's power level being bonkers for a bit, but I've missed it. The new dilemma seems to be: do I give up flashback for a body? I'm not sure how I feel about that.
This seems super narrow, but I'm open-minded. I don't think I'll have enough cards for her to routinely fetch up, but the synergy Noyan Dar and all the manlands in my ULD seem pretty tempting, her body is acceptable, and she's both a Human and a Wizard (Riptide Laboratory yaaaas), so, maybe, but only if I find myself packing a few cards that she could actually grab when she ETB.
In an entirely different direction, I'm also pretty intrigued by this new sac outlet:
I really, really wish that activation cost was just
, but I've seen Evolutionary Leap put in some serious work, and this not only draws you a card, but also gives you 1 life, which isn't the worst bonus you could ask for. I'm not sure if it's quite strong enough to go nuts for, but the idea of swinging with Bloodsoaked Champion, saccing him to this, and then Raiding him back onto the battlefield seem interesting as a worst-case scenario; 2 damage, 1 life, and draw a card for ? That's not the best deal I've ever seen, true, but it's a fine baseline, I think, and is the sort of durdlefest attrition play/late-game mana sink I'm interested in exploring. My black 1-drop section is getting more stacked every day, though, so I'm a bit concerned about fit.