Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Not that I run the golem tribal package, but I do run two Blade Splicers, and based on my experiences there are a few unmentioned cards that work really well with these splicers. I'll skip the obvious anthems.
Card/Deck Golem Tribal
- Thread starter Grillo_Parlante
- Start date
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Of the cards I run, these are the ones that interact with the golem tokens/splicers in various ways:
Snap, of course, represents bounce, which becomes much better when it also acts as hard removal against one of the formats major midrange decks. Same goes for artifact killers like reclamation sage and acidic slime. Flicker effects are value, as has been mentioned.
The splicers's are already midrange, so they play nicely with cards that can play on that axis and care about artifacts: darksteel juggernaut, jor kadeen, the prevailer, covetous dragon, rusted relic. Their are some other things going on in the format though that can interact with the splicers, so I included them.
I agree both metalcraft and affinity are generally traps. Metalcraft becomes much better though, when either the effect you are getting is super powerful for the format (jor kadeen in this case) thus making it a reasonable strategy to warp your deck around, or the card already counts as an artifact (rusted relic).
Disclaimers:
We have a low CC swarm deck that can use artifact myr tokens, which makes court homunculus better than it would otherwise be. Jury is still out on somber hoverguard, though I think the cube power level is low enough where you don't need a huge discount for it to be reasonable, making it much less poisonous than every other affinity card I've looked at (which bodes poorly for the entire rest of the mechanic).
Really curious though if some of the splicers could have higher power applications with stuff like tinker and sharding sphinx.
Edit: Good call, I forgot that the splicers themselves tie in with humans.
Snap, of course, represents bounce, which becomes much better when it also acts as hard removal against one of the formats major midrange decks. Same goes for artifact killers like reclamation sage and acidic slime. Flicker effects are value, as has been mentioned.
The splicers's are already midrange, so they play nicely with cards that can play on that axis and care about artifacts: darksteel juggernaut, jor kadeen, the prevailer, covetous dragon, rusted relic. Their are some other things going on in the format though that can interact with the splicers, so I included them.
I agree both metalcraft and affinity are generally traps. Metalcraft becomes much better though, when either the effect you are getting is super powerful for the format (jor kadeen in this case) thus making it a reasonable strategy to warp your deck around, or the card already counts as an artifact (rusted relic).
Disclaimers:
We have a low CC swarm deck that can use artifact myr tokens, which makes court homunculus better than it would otherwise be. Jury is still out on somber hoverguard, though I think the cube power level is low enough where you don't need a huge discount for it to be reasonable, making it much less poisonous than every other affinity card I've looked at (which bodes poorly for the entire rest of the mechanic).
Really curious though if some of the splicers could have higher power applications with stuff like tinker and sharding sphinx.
Edit: Good call, I forgot that the splicers themselves tie in with humans.
Well if we're at it
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I was about to, but then I realized I had a million other anthems, so I cut it from my previous list. In hindsight that was a pretty silly cut, because this makes everything Golems as well, which is The Best (TM) in Splicerworld!Wait, nobody's mentioned this yet:
How crazy do people wanna go on the golems? What is the white golem package if you run mirror entity? Double blade splicer? Double master splicer?
Diversity of effects in the dedicated golem deck outweighs doubling up on one over the other, I think. If you want to double I'd go with Blade at higher power levels and Master at lower ones for more interesting synergy. Sensor Splicer might be playable at 4 mana. Lodestone Golem looks like it'd hurt the splicer deck but it's actually spectacular.
I nominate the following endpoint for 'crazy':
Amoeboid Changeling is also probably going deep enough. Trickery Charm, maybe?
I also less jokingly suggest Apostle's Blessing in artifact-heavy cubes, 'Llark and Sundering Growth, as well as humans-matters cards Champion and Necromancer. this is basically a themeless theme so you don't really need to throw a ton of space its way.
I nominate the following endpoint for 'crazy':
Amoeboid Changeling is also probably going deep enough. Trickery Charm, maybe?
I also less jokingly suggest Apostle's Blessing in artifact-heavy cubes, 'Llark and Sundering Growth, as well as humans-matters cards Champion and Necromancer. this is basically a themeless theme so you don't really need to throw a ton of space its way.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Its a little speculative, because whatever package you go with has to be tuned for the cube, and I am still not sure where exactly master splicer and vital splicer fall on the power scale. I have no idea how good 5 power for 4 mana is in a lot of environments, but that standard is going to be important.
I know blade splicer can fit in comfortably with the titans, as can mirror entity. Maul splicer, sensor splicer and wing splicer are more pauperish power level.
If we think of it in terms of themes, I think U/W/g artifacts, U/W/g blink, and U/R/W artifacts provide the most guidance. I would imagine the splicers being part of a sort of stable midrangy value package from which more exotic artifact themes could build themselves. E.g I play blade splicer turn 3 to hold board position, until tinkering away the golem for a sharding sphinx. I can use momentary blink to build tempo and board position, and if the opportunity presents itself, switch to the beat down.
I think I've pretty much established the low power version of the tribe, but if you creep up a bit on the power scale you might have as the core:
And than run mirror entity as a sort of overrun synergy piece. I have 6 splicers total in a 360 list right now, so I don't think 4 with a mirror entity is bad. After that, the deck can intergrate itself in a number of different thematic directions: blink, artifact support, incidental human synergy. But basically, the higher you go, the more you end up with a lonely blade splicer, and the more incidental the interactions become.
Their might be some B/W midrange room too, with cards like phyrexian reclamation.
Exactly. I think thats the important part to remember. No need to go too deep, just get your value where it fits at your power level, and intersects with other things going on in the cube.
I know blade splicer can fit in comfortably with the titans, as can mirror entity. Maul splicer, sensor splicer and wing splicer are more pauperish power level.
If we think of it in terms of themes, I think U/W/g artifacts, U/W/g blink, and U/R/W artifacts provide the most guidance. I would imagine the splicers being part of a sort of stable midrangy value package from which more exotic artifact themes could build themselves. E.g I play blade splicer turn 3 to hold board position, until tinkering away the golem for a sharding sphinx. I can use momentary blink to build tempo and board position, and if the opportunity presents itself, switch to the beat down.
I think I've pretty much established the low power version of the tribe, but if you creep up a bit on the power scale you might have as the core:
And than run mirror entity as a sort of overrun synergy piece. I have 6 splicers total in a 360 list right now, so I don't think 4 with a mirror entity is bad. After that, the deck can intergrate itself in a number of different thematic directions: blink, artifact support, incidental human synergy. But basically, the higher you go, the more you end up with a lonely blade splicer, and the more incidental the interactions become.
Their might be some B/W midrange room too, with cards like phyrexian reclamation.
Exactly. I think thats the important part to remember. No need to go too deep, just get your value where it fits at your power level, and intersects with other things going on in the cube.
How good is it to top a Splicer curve with Precursor Golem though? Feels like a removal check that leads to a complete blowout for either player.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Lodestone golem is probably more reasonable. Precursor golem is such a sweet card though that I would run it if I could get away with it.
I'm just not sure comes into play 3-5 drop tribal is ever gonna be as interesting or helpful as graveyard aggro and attrition will be. Especially give that the graveyard version starts at 1 and gives you like ways to spend your mana and have extra cards all game just by doing normsy stuff.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
This thread isn't so much about an actual "deck" so much as its about capitalizing on some incidental synergy, that opens up interesting design options, depending on your power level.
Its certaintly not a contextless competition between an undefined "golem deck" and undefined "graveyard deck".
Well babe, it's more that I'm trying to differentiate tribal class focus to synergy bonus focus ya know. Like what do golems bring to the table in the way that zombies bring to the table. I mean zombies is more a pet name now with all the humans and spirits etc that can contribute to the same sweet plan.
So we have graveyard attrition aggro and comes into play ability abuse, army in can midranged?
So we have graveyard attrition aggro and comes into play ability abuse, army in can midranged?
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Ah, so you want to know why someone would do this?
The big benefits are that its very compact and boosts your artifact count.
1. Each splicer acts as a "golem lord" and brings a golem with him. If you select splicers that have good stand alone value, than you get to have the benefit of running non-poisonous tribal lords, which is unique. You just have to make sure that each splicer justifies itself as a value piece in relation to the cube's power level. It should be able to work as a themeless theme, with no other direct support, because the splicers already provide all the support you could want.
2. Because each splicer brings an artifact golem with him, you artifically boost the cube artifact count. This can have important implications, if you want to run cards that are sensative to your cube's artifact count.
In my own cube it works as a strong UW/g midrange deck, that kills you if you don't interact with the splicers, and punishes you if you do interact with the splicers, via blink effects. As the format's premier midrange deck thus far, they skew the cube towards the type of artifact interactions I want to encourage. Every environment is going to be different though.
Also, they make me think of these:
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I hope that came out wrong, because the way you put it, it really doesn't sound very fun at all for one of the parties involved. Basically you're fucked if you don't interact, and you're fucked if you do try to interact?
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Its an exaggeration: you of course don't always have access to blink effects; but its the basic strategy, and why its notable/unique compared to other midrange strategies. Its where it derives a lot of its ability to play an effective attrition game.
what if we errata the creature types to golem?
Splicers are great with Pod, if that hasn't been mentioned.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
So, based on the number of times I've been asked in the thread, "why would someone do this" it would seem I've done a very poor job explaining myself. Thankfully, CML just provided this fantastic article, about tribal archetypes, which can hopefully help illuminate the topic.
So, key points for a tribal theme to work:
1. The tribal pieces not to be poisonous
2. Incentive synergy for having a lot of these cards.
Any confusion is pretty much entirely my fault, since I labeled the post "tribal" and not "golems are a sweet card type" and most people posting here are running cubes at power levels, where its unlikely that splicers could ever act as the basis of a true tribe.
So, let me make a more condensed, focused case, for where you might do this, and why it has worked as amazingly well as it has, in a low power pauper/peasentish cube
You have these cards:
Uniquely, if these cards are independently reasonable picks in my cube, I have an instant tribal theme. This is because:
1. The individual splicers, in this scenario, are not poisonous. 5 power for 4 mana, for example, would be something that my drafters would be interested in on its own.
2. The splicers themselves bring incentive synergy for having a lot of them. Every splicer or golem I add to the board, makes all of the other golem tokens better. This is how lord cards work, which we normally can never run in cube, because lords are poisonous. Splicers get around this problem even before we start talking about incidental synergy with other golems, other themes, or cards that care about artifacts.
This is the most compact, consistent tribal theme you can get for a cube i.m.o. Splicers are unique in that they provide, in a single card, both a lord to reward you for drafting more of them, but also provide solid value on their own.
Now, pursuant to this, the less splicers our power level allows, the less this becomes a real tribe. In my own cube, I run all of them accept for blade splicer, and its great. The deck comes together, regularly, as a splicer deck, built on splicer synergies. However, clearly, once we go up to a power level where all of the other splicers are terrible accept for blade splicer, you now lack the ability to reward someone for drafting a bunch of splicers, because you can only run two of them.
At that point, you don't have a tribal theme, you have some incidental synergy, which is still fun, and you can capitalize on a little bit by running a second blade splicer, and any other reasonable golem at your power level.
I hope that helps to clarify.
So, key points for a tribal theme to work:
1. The tribal pieces not to be poisonous
2. Incentive synergy for having a lot of these cards.
Any confusion is pretty much entirely my fault, since I labeled the post "tribal" and not "golems are a sweet card type" and most people posting here are running cubes at power levels, where its unlikely that splicers could ever act as the basis of a true tribe.
So, let me make a more condensed, focused case, for where you might do this, and why it has worked as amazingly well as it has, in a low power pauper/peasentish cube
You have these cards:
Uniquely, if these cards are independently reasonable picks in my cube, I have an instant tribal theme. This is because:
1. The individual splicers, in this scenario, are not poisonous. 5 power for 4 mana, for example, would be something that my drafters would be interested in on its own.
2. The splicers themselves bring incentive synergy for having a lot of them. Every splicer or golem I add to the board, makes all of the other golem tokens better. This is how lord cards work, which we normally can never run in cube, because lords are poisonous. Splicers get around this problem even before we start talking about incidental synergy with other golems, other themes, or cards that care about artifacts.
This is the most compact, consistent tribal theme you can get for a cube i.m.o. Splicers are unique in that they provide, in a single card, both a lord to reward you for drafting more of them, but also provide solid value on their own.
Now, pursuant to this, the less splicers our power level allows, the less this becomes a real tribe. In my own cube, I run all of them accept for blade splicer, and its great. The deck comes together, regularly, as a splicer deck, built on splicer synergies. However, clearly, once we go up to a power level where all of the other splicers are terrible accept for blade splicer, you now lack the ability to reward someone for drafting a bunch of splicers, because you can only run two of them.
At that point, you don't have a tribal theme, you have some incidental synergy, which is still fun, and you can capitalize on a little bit by running a second blade splicer, and any other reasonable golem at your power level.
I hope that helps to clarify.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Yeah, I was thinking of axing Jazal for Master Splicer and Titania for Vital Splicer and see where that leads me.
Honestly a splicer package sounds like a fun start off point sort of to build a lower power cube, and try to get some artifact stuff in there as well. Good write up Grillo.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I wonder what a 2cc splicer would have to look like...
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
Golems you control have -1/-1?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I thought it might be interesting (Though probably fruitless) to have a splicer where the goal was to get rid of the non-golem half of the card asap
I think my origional idea was a U1 0/1 can't block "Phantasmal Splicer"