Yeah, Woe-Reaper regularly grabs multiple cards in any combination of Mardu colors for my playgroup, and the life gain is significant as often as not, especially (again) in the somewhat suicidal aggro decks you tend to see reaper in.
Card/Deck Graveyard hate
- Thread starter Alfonzo Bonzo
- Start date
Bump for recent investigation into GY hate in my own format. I feel like we haven't gotten many new toys since this thread was last being discussed, but there was one card I just found that seems to be a neat form of graveyard hate, and it is frustratingly unique too:
It's a little bit sub-optimal that it triggers off of your own spells too, but many aggro decks will have less time for GY shenanigans, and will be much more likely to get a free 3 to the Villian when they use a Silent Departure or Unburial Rites or Firebolt or so on. It doesn't trigger on as many instances of GY interaction as I like, but it fills a nice role. And it's got Haste. Bam!
We've also gotten some cool new burn spells that are incidental hate:
Burn-into-Exile is a great tool, and I hope they print more good ones soon. My wish is for a 3 mana 4 damage spell that has the into-exile clause.
Any other GY hate things that people have discovered or that have popped up?
It's a little bit sub-optimal that it triggers off of your own spells too, but many aggro decks will have less time for GY shenanigans, and will be much more likely to get a free 3 to the Villian when they use a Silent Departure or Unburial Rites or Firebolt or so on. It doesn't trigger on as many instances of GY interaction as I like, but it fills a nice role. And it's got Haste. Bam!
We've also gotten some cool new burn spells that are incidental hate:
Burn-into-Exile is a great tool, and I hope they print more good ones soon. My wish is for a 3 mana 4 damage spell that has the into-exile clause.
Any other GY hate things that people have discovered or that have popped up?
Another shout out for Incendiary Flow. Should be a windmill slam given how powerful exile effects are in most cubes. It's an upgraded volcanic hammer too. Trading instant for sorcery plus exile seems stellar to me.
EDIT: Also worth a mention in this capacity is Red Sun's Zenith. It's a weaker x-burn spell if evaluated in isolation at that capacity but has the exile clause and also shuffles your library (brainstorm, et all). And because it goes back in your library, you can draw it more than once in a game meaning it's worth slightly more than 1 removal spell.
EDIT: Also worth a mention in this capacity is Red Sun's Zenith. It's a weaker x-burn spell if evaluated in isolation at that capacity but has the exile clause and also shuffles your library (brainstorm, et all). And because it goes back in your library, you can draw it more than once in a game meaning it's worth slightly more than 1 removal spell.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Sweet! I was looking for an X-spell to replace Crater's Claws and another exile effect in red. This is perfect! It's also a sweet grinding tool in UR control, and a way to prevent decking yourself
Don't forget about
It looks pretty low power but can attack opponents graveyards and recur stuff or you. Also good if you have miracles.
It looks pretty low power but can attack opponents graveyards and recur stuff or you. Also good if you have miracles.
CML
Contributor
Bump for recent investigation into GY hate in my own format. I feel like we haven't gotten many new toys since this thread was last being discussed, but there was one card I just found that seems to be a neat form of graveyard hate, and it is frustratingly unique too:
that card was a contemporary of snapcaster mage's for a solid year in standard and not once did it trigger. not once!
I find myself annoyed that there is so little grave hate in white! One of the comments (again) from my recent draft was maybe a little more hate. Only problem is: grave hate is in the same colors as one of the best decks to abuse the GY in my format, ! So the drafter had the shenanigans and the hate. I find myself wanting more white hate to combat this somewhat, but then.... no really great options -_-. I may have to find a spot for a card I did have moderate success with in the past:
Also, not white, but I turn my eyes to this guy again:
I'm not convinced that he's good enough, but he can grind value throughout a game, and it is surgical GY hate (I'm not as much a fan of just bogging yards). I just wish you could target yourself, and tapping is lame.
! So the drafter had the shenanigans and the hate. I find myself wanting more white hate to combat this somewhat, but then.... no really great options -_-. I may have to find a spot for a card I did have moderate success with in the past:Also, not white, but I turn my eyes to this guy again:
I'm not convinced that he's good enough, but he can grind value throughout a game, and it is surgical GY hate (I'm not as much a fan of just bogging yards). I just wish you could target yourself, and tapping is lame.
Stonecloaker is one of those weird ones where every time I see it I'm like "oh yeah, that card" and then one second later "what exactly does it do again?".
Relic is great, but a little too easy of a hate card for my tastes...especially for being colorless. There would need to be some tension with it exiling your own graveyard for me to be interested. Even with the density of graveyard interaction my cube has, I don't feel like the drawback would be significant enough.
I omit Scavenging Ooze for a similar reason, and prefer to run Deathgorge Scavenger instead.
If the format is very high powered, I'd probably run both ooze and relic.
I don't mind Relic being a strong answer. It's still like, never going to be picked sooner than 13th or so. Graveyard hate that you don't maindeck is always going to be in a bad spot in Cube.
The only problem I have with literally all of those is the repeatable effect doesn't target. Leaving it up to the opponent makes it quite a bit less effective to not use the "cycling" mode.
My wishlist card is a manarock with a second ability that's like "1, tap: exile target card + gain 1 life". Or something. But I really think a white card would be best. The enchantment is tempting:
as that lifegain ability is no joke. But then again, it mostly hits the blue types of GY shenanigans, which I don't think are as critical as the GB reanimation kind... sigh
My wishlist card is a manarock with a second ability that's like "1, tap: exile target card + gain 1 life". Or something. But I really think a white card would be best. The enchantment is tempting:
as that lifegain ability is no joke. But then again, it mostly hits the blue types of GY shenanigans, which I don't think are as critical as the GB reanimation kind... sigh
I wish I liked Misthollow Griffin a little more.....I enjoyed Eternal Scourge for a while in my cube, but had to cut it for additional artifact support.
I'll grab claws in my cube starting around late mid-pack. So starting around 9-10 on average. It makes maindecks a lot, but that's unique to my environment.
I'll grab claws in my cube starting around late mid-pack. So starting around 9-10 on average. It makes maindecks a lot, but that's unique to my environment.
Yeah they're not for everyone, that quality is what makes it fair in my cube. Furnace is at least systematic, and can grab important stuff sooner....but some people have issues with cards that care about graveyard order.
On topic, but not exactly what you want.....I really enjoy this card:
I think I have a few more incentives to play this card in my format than perhaps you do in yours.
Ooouu I forgot that existed. That is quite surgical and incidental, as well as being perfectly fine as Manalith besides. Neat.
One that I also hadn't considered very closely, but is quite interesting upon second look
It is the opposite of surgical, and it has that pesky let-your-opponent's-decide, but it only leaves 2 cards! This does a lot I like. It's colorless, so fits in any deck, it's effect isn't overly wanted by the GY shenanigans deck (as opposed to, say, Scavenging Ooze) leaving it open for red/white/etc decks to take it, and it doesn't outright stop single-use GY stuff, which hasn't been that burdensome anyway.
One that I also hadn't considered very closely, but is quite interesting upon second look
It is the opposite of surgical, and it has that pesky let-your-opponent's-decide, but it only leaves 2 cards! This does a lot I like. It's colorless, so fits in any deck, it's effect isn't overly wanted by the GY shenanigans deck (as opposed to, say, Scavenging Ooze) leaving it open for red/white/etc decks to take it, and it doesn't outright stop single-use GY stuff, which hasn't been that burdensome anyway.
Ooouu I forgot that existed. That is quite surgical and incidental, as well as being perfectly fine as Manalith besides. Neat.
One that I also hadn't considered very closely, but is quite interesting upon second look
It is the opposite of surgical, and it has that pesky let-your-opponent's-decide, but it only leaves 2 cards! This does a lot I like. It's colorless, so fits in any deck, it's effect isn't overly wanted by the GY shenanigans deck (as opposed to, say, Scavenging Ooze) leaving it open for red/white/etc decks to take it, and it doesn't outright stop single-use GY stuff, which hasn't been that burdensome anyway.
Hmm, isn't leaving 2 cards of choice enough to make this card pretty useless in most situations? I guess it depends on the density of your targets, but normally there are only a couple flashback spells or reanimation targets or Gravecrawlers or whatever that you really want in there. I guess it sets Delve cards back and limits Snapcaster choices, but in most games I've played, I don't think this would have done much damage.
Anyone have hands-on experience with this one?
I kinda like the ability to leave single-use stuff. Leaving, for instance, an Overseer of the Damned and Chainer's Edict isn't that problematic, and lets the GY deck still do something without just being neutered. I'm not reanimating any one thing that's overly oppressive in my environ. The GY shenanigans that I've seen being more troublesome are like so:
Stuff that uses the entire yard for some overly efficient and game-breaking effect. The cats still allow something to happen with these type effects, but can curtail them being outright unfair, which is exactly where I like being.
I dunno if it's not quite effective enough in the role, but I think it's worth testing in my environment.
Stuff that uses the entire yard for some overly efficient and game-breaking effect. The cats still allow something to happen with these type effects, but can curtail them being outright unfair, which is exactly where I like being.
I dunno if it's not quite effective enough in the role, but I think it's worth testing in my environment.
Ah, gotcha. I don't run any of the cards you listed, so I was coming at it from a different perspective. I like your thinking.
I'm still down with
They all look fairly low powered, but work in other ways too. Not forgotten, is a noxious revival as well when you want it to be and the token is usually useful. Claws is good with trinket mage/salvagers/salvaging station. Junktroller is also for the self mill, construct your library deck, alongside epitaph golem.
They all look fairly low powered, but work in other ways too. Not forgotten, is a noxious revival as well when you want it to be and the token is usually useful. Claws is good with trinket mage/salvagers/salvaging station. Junktroller is also for the self mill, construct your library deck, alongside epitaph golem.
Or Storm.