Innistrad Themed Cube: 360 Unpowered

Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Hey, sorry for the late reply. I was adding in a lot of the feedback, and its been a pretty busy week for me, but thanks everyone for the drafts. I think there has been some solid upgrades.

I still have demonic pact in and past in flames, and want them in, but am pretty unsure about how well the cube can utilize them. Demonic pact seems like a really exciting card, but I'm not sure how best to implement it. Past in flames I just feel there has to be something worth doing with it, in a cube where it has familiars and bouncelands. Extractor demon came out, as it just was a little too techy. Rally I think is still nice as a way to reward a low curve G/W aggressive deck, and maybe I should be running collected company as well. These cards are also nice with the TOL tutors.

The multi-color section is still a mess, I feel, but we'll get there. There just really isn't a lot of multi-color cards i'm that excited about.

The green two drops are packed with a few too many utility creatures, and I think there should be something more aggressive there.

I added a ton of graveyard interactions, between flashback, spell mastery, delve, and unearth, there is enough value incentives to make graveyard velocity a valid tactic at this power level. Spell mastery is really nice, because like delve its just a pure value play, which is a good incentive mechanic to have, and an entry point before having drafters go into deeper graveyard strategies. I also cut swords: I felt that having condemn + swords + path was just boring, as those cards are just so similar. Nissa's pilgrimage also seems sweet, as a sort of kodama's reach effect that dosen't encourage multi-color good stuff.

I took both fabled hero and genesis wave out. Safekeeper I want to try, as a source of spot removal disruption in decks looking for that.

Anyways, here is what went in:


 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor
Has anyone ever morphed a Grim Haruspex?

The rest of them seem fine though, despite my hated for silumgar assassin :p (Damn you why could you not say greater than or equal to?)
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
The morph on grim is pretty much just to get back raptor: thats really the only reward to be morphing things.

Ending up going with 1 set of shocks, 1 set of fetches, 1 set of bounce, and 1 set of scry lands, which feels about right. That gets backed up by the 5 zendikar man lands, x1 lotus petal, x1 mox opal, x4 chromatic star, and x2 mycosynth wellspring. af section still feels rough to me, as well as 2-3 of the lands.

Went x2 indomitable archangel, to cement the non red base artifact deck. Splicers feel like they fit as a midrange deck, as reasonably powerful sources of metalcraft activation, but which get buffed tremendously by the archangel, the missing piece of the tribal puzzle. The red based artifact decks focus on graveyard exchanges and sacrifice, while the white based ones focus on developing an overwhelming board presence.

The morph package seems good, and I think I have my green 2 and 3 drops as a good place to support the company and rally based decks I want. Rally the ancestors seems like a really exciting, and powerful edition, to the aristocats type deck and adding a new dimension to it. Its sort of the goblin bushwhacker effect that the deck so badly wanted: a sudden, brutal burst of damage, and one which synergizes powerfully with its base plan. The cost pushes the deck towards a W/G/B base, rather than a W/B/R base, which is a nice change, as green offers the mana elves to cast higher power rallys.

Still feel like artifact destruction is a neglected part of the cube.

I also want to start to shift some of the midrange threats over to death triggers or something if possible. The reason being that I want to enable persecute plays where the control player uses remands or bounce to get ahead on card position while putting the 1 card a turn midrange player neutral on board position. Than you wrath the hand. It also lets an aggro deck splashing blue capitalize on those sorts of strategies by just out tempoing the durdly midrange guy.

Anyways, here are some decks:

Evolving Company from CubeTutor.com












Almost mono green accept for rally and manlands, this is an almost pure value version of the deck, built around the eternal witness/den protector/rally the ancestors engine. Evolutionary Leap looks amazing as a cheap value sac. outlet that feeds the yard. The plan is to just beat down and grind with rally, and there is an "over-the-top" midrange plan fueled by titania and Ezuri. I feel like Ezuri was a missing piece of the puzzle, being a low cc mana sink that combos well with mana dorks, and provides a valuable overrun effect.

Some Kind of Maniac from CubeTutor.com












Just pure control looking to either mill out the oppo, or drop lab maniac and call it a win if the game goes too long.

U/W Splicer Craft from CubeTutor.com












Running hardly any removal, because it dosen't need it. The deck is capable of just dominating the board with a prison lattice of thopters and golems before crushing over for the kill. Wellsprings are here mostly to make sure that thopter spy network keeps on dominating.

Sphinx's Control from CubeTutor.com











A deck whose main interest in life is drawing cards to fuel its mill engine.

G/W/b rally combo from CubeTutor.com











Heres an earlier attempt at a rally deck, but this time focused more on gaining infinite life with kitchen finks. I haven't drafted it up yet, but I want to note how amazing collected company can be with grenzo, dungeon warden

Mind's Desire Combo from CubeTutor.com











Make millions of mana with OG garruk and bouncelands, cast familiar discounted spells, mind's desire your deck, brain freeze for fifteen or twenty copies. GOTTEM.
 
Eric Chan

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
I might be worried that Deathmist Raptors are a little poison principle-y in cube - much like Gravecrawlers, except without having incidental zombies sprinkled throughout the colour. Even when I was running ~10 zombies total, it was often tough to stick one long enough to recast some Gravecrawlers; this problem seems amplified when you have only a very small handful of useful morph cards to work with. Would multiple Vengevines be a realistic substitute, instead? I've always liked that it's not a very powerful card in the abstract, but can go well in straight, low-curve green aggro decks, as well as more graveyard-focused creature decks.
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Vengevine sounds pretty sweet; I had forgotten about it.

I was thinking of deathmist as being more of a cheap incidental value card, but sometimes people will get confused by those sorts of inclusions and start looking for decks that aren't there.
 
Kirblinx

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
Grillo_Parlante said:
Lots of decks and stuff
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I am trying to figure out what Rally the Ancestors does for the first deck you posted. Triggers Eternal Witness and you can get some value out of Evolutionary leap? Just doesn't seem like there are enough EtB effects or sac outlets that make it worth running.

Indomitable Archangel is a strange incentive for the artifact decks. Whenever I saw it in MM2015 draft it was just a decently costed flyer. Its ability was actually a downside in a couple of my games due to not being able to equip my artifact creatures. I'd just be picking this in the GW little kid deck if I was ever in it. So it seems like a weird thing to double up on. I had a quick look through gatherer and there really isn't much else that incentivises white artifacts other than things that bring them back from the 'yard. So while I would like to suggest a replacement there really isn't anything I can find :\

Also, because decklists are cool, I want to show off the RG control brew I drafted. Burn the world multiple times while finding a way then worming it up.

RG WormFire from CubeTutor.com










 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
I really like seeing those controlling R/G decks. I took prime time out for titania, which is probably a huge upgrade for a deck like this, and the moment's peace, which i'm starting to doubt.

How do you feel about that card in this deck?

Honestly, I forgot rally dosen't grant haste, which means maybe I need to start looking at the haste archetype we were talking about in the other thread eons ago. Good catch.

I do not want to run mogis' maurader.

I think the artifacts theme in mm2 was just not very good, and that format kind of had a bias towards multi-color good stuff decks. You also had that equipment deck which was a nombo with archangel. All in all, I would expect archangel to play out pretty differently here, and its effect just fits so well with the splicers.
 
Kirblinx

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
Grillo_Parlante said:
I really like seeing those controlling R/G decks. I took prime time out for titania, which is probably a huge upgrade for a deck like this, and the moment's peace, which i'm starting to doubt.

How do you feel about that card in this deck?
Click to expand...
Titiana does seem pretty sweet and could help this deck form during draft as Prime Time is just such the bomb that will go into any deck with green. The Moment's Peace was just there to have some action when I was self milling. It could probably just replace it with the 3rd wayfinder I had in my board. I wouldn't mind there being a green value card for self-mill, which is what that was in there for. I'd love Gnaw to the Bone more, but hey, beggars can't be choosers.
Honestly, I forgot rally dosen't grant haste, which means maybe I need to start looking at the haste archetype we were talking about in the other thread eons ago. Good catch.
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That's why it has now only started seeing standard play due to Nantuko Husk being able to get EtB effects and saccing them all and doing it all again. It's still a great payoff card, and a fun build around and with the blink theme you should have enough value dudes that it is worthwhile. I wouldn't worry about finding haste enables, Sac outlets and EtB triggers give quite a lot of value.
I think the artifacts theme in mm2 was just not very good, and that format kind of had a bias towards multi-color good stuff decks. You also had that equipment deck which was a nombo with archangel. All in all, I would expect archangel to play out pretty differently here, and its effect just fits so well with the splicers.
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I respectfully disagree, the Idol and the Skimmer were passed so often whenever I drafted, and 2-mana 2-powered flyers pile the pressure on quickly. But the multi-colour good stuff decks did come together so often and do well enough that I can't argue with that's how the format played. Still wish it was slightly more narrow that it doesn't feel like an auto-include for anyone playing white for it to drift to the splicer player. In saying that, looking at the white 4-drops, you have:
Archangel of Tithes: That WWW makes this go solidly in white
2x Master Splicer: A solid splashable roleplayer that can go in any deck for decent value
2x Indomitable Archangel: A WW flyer that (slightly) incentivises artifacts.

It feels weird that you are trying to give it to the deck that would want to pick up the Master Splicer instead but since it is the more splashable option, other decks would tend to take it so you get the angel in that slot instead. Seems like the decks would adjust occordingly.

EDIT: Also, was a pleasant surprise to see Sphinx's Tutelage show up as whenever I saw grindstone, I thought it looked sweet but that 3 activating cost was just so steep. Getting a free version of the effect each turn is exactly what the control decks wanted. But the deck above with it and Sphinx's Revelation seems like the kind of deck that would get you punched in the face, which is something I love to see :p
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
I think you've persuaded me about the second archangel. Not really sure what I want to run in its place though.

I also just remembered that Ezuri only buffs elfs /sigh. Really was excited to have that card: 3cc and a mana sink.

I think I am going to try to fit moment's peace back in, since it helps support R/G control. Maybe I need to be thinking about loam though and that new sesmisic assault they printed?

Also, I do have a source of haste for rally the ancestors :cool:

 
safra

safra

Grillo_Parlante said:
I think you've persuaded me about the second archangel. Not really sure what I want to run in its place though.

I think I am going to try to fit moment's peace back in, since it helps support R/G control. Maybe I need to be thinking about loam though and that new sesmisic assault they printed?

Also, I do have a source of haste for rally the ancestors :cool:

Click to expand...

I wonder which broadly playable but narrowly amazing four-drop with flying might interact positively with splicers?

loam + molten vortex looks good here but it's too early to say anything definitive imo. your wayfinder density suggests a few ways for it to play out, which I like when it comes to weirdo cards like Loam.

(no you don't kicker is an on-cast trigger not an ETB. Flame-Kin Zealot?)
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
No, no, you don't stop goblin bushwhacker that easily. You just have to draw it before the turn where you rally... (and have like 6 mana but whatever, thats what elves are for).

Zealot is the poster child for the glaring hole in the card record that bushwhacker fills by his lonely self: bushwhacker: 2 mana for 2 power, global haste, and global +1 +0, vs. Zealot: 4 mana for essentially the same package. Ugh.

I am adding galepowder, but for some reason I have a strange and sudden desire to add brushwagg. Don't know why.
 
safra

safra

yeah the precedent is just, like, not there

if it's for rally combos the floor on Hellraiser Goblin might go up a bit. The card is pretty weak otherwise though and it really only supports a few aggro builds.
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
I added in outpost siege, which I think is now enough red control support. No moment's peace, but there is gnaw to the bone. Also added evacuation because I love persecute. I also feel like deathmist would be a good addition, but maybe just one.

So lets talk about enchantment/artifact removal, because I can already hear my player's complaining about it. There is going to be enough artifact count here where disenchant won't be too narrow. Here is what I have now:




For 12 total. This better than the penny cube, which has about seven right now, and people want more. Some of these are pretty boarderline though: braids and fetters. I also find that people play out removal spells very quickly (which is generally not a misplay, if you are under pressure you are pressure) making o-ring and fetters, at least, pretty medium in terms of artifact/enchantment hate.

Orim's thunder is, of course, a low pick in cube tutor draft, but that is normal. These cards all seem too narrow until you realize you need them. I've been thinking about these guys:





Obvious conflict between flexible vs. focused answer.

ainok survivalist seems maybe a bit too slow for what i'm looking for? Don't know. Prob would be better to do x2 rec. sage.
 
B

Balkmeister

Like the way this cube has evolved overall but i do miss a few things fromt he old cube (mostly werewolfs and vampires =) and feel it probably has lost a bit of it's innistrad feel. I found a few slots to be wierdly spend and would love if you could help me with the reasoning behind their selection.


Knight of infamy - Doesnt really synergize with much. What's your thoughts behind this one?
Yosei, the morning star - Also seems a bit random where i feel there are other 5/5 fliers for 6 that does more interesting things like for example: Twilight Shepherd, Requiem Angel or Dearly Departed.
Quirion Dryad - Isnt this slot better filled with something like Mayor of avabruck or is WG humans not a thing anymore? also, no travel prep?
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
I'm just experimenting with different ideas before committing to anything. I was still learning a lot when I made the original list about design and drafting (as in preliminary cube design) a cube, and thats sort of reflected in the original list. After the penny cube, the whole thing feels very tangled in comparison, and I wanted to streamline it. At this point I would probably go and cut the bouncelands and artifacts if I were to tinker with it again, but at the end of the day its going to be a higher powered graveyard format, with a lot of value recursion. As a more up powered version of the list, I don't think its bad, but I feel like it lost a lot of the personality of the original cube in the process.

A big part of the cube's appeal was that it was a johnny magic playground, and while a poor spike environment, offered fresh territory to brew and build in. The higher the power level I go, the harder it is to recreate that feeling.
 
B

Balkmeister

I like some of the things you've tried in the new cube but somehow the artifact/metalcraft direction seems wrong for the feeling of an innistrad cube. I've updated my cube with alot of new cards since last time i updated it was like a year a go. Would love to hear your thoughts on it and perhaps use it as a way to get back to basics (without all the artifacts =)
http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/17377
 
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