Jonas 360 Cube

Chris Taylor · Feb 6, 2014

Very little. More of the lands are playable to more of the players, if that's what you mean (Flooded strand is still playable in RW, but tundra is not). I'd say everyones mana get a little better, but only in that you ACTUALLY have people playing their nonbasics, not just people disappointed when they have 3 bouncelands in an aggro deck.

The landfall guys get better. Not too much better, because despite how many are floating around, fetchlands are all really good, so you can only realistically get so many.

Eric Chan · Feb 6, 2014

Yeah, the problem with land destruction is that half of the decks just don't care. The Gruul decks that would play Stone Rain and such, while on the aggro end of the spectrum, can be outpaced by the Boros and Rakdos hyper aggressive swarm decks. If you go with double Stone Rain and double Ice Storm, your R/G decks might be better against control, but the other half of the time they'll be actively worse off as they sit there with a pile of cards that can't interact with small creatures.

Like I said above, if you feel that control is too strong in your environment, I would try dialing the knobs down on some of the control enablers first before putting in a narrow set of hosers that go specifically in one colour combination.

Jonas · Feb 6, 2014

Thing is though, I don't run that many mana rocks

That doesn't seem like it would be too much. I don't feel like i need to have them though, so I have no problem taking them out.

Eric Chan · Feb 6, 2014

Hmmmm, yeah. That's not an overabundance for 360, though I suspect Coalition Relic is secretly the best card in your cube if your power level ceiling isn't too high, so I'd keep an eye on that.

How are your control decks taking control of the games? Is it through an abundance of removal & sweepers? By accelerating into unbeatable finishers? Filtering and sculpting perfect hands? Countering every relevant threat? Jamming the board with multiple planeswalkers? If you can identify your control decks' areas of strength, you can tweak each of those factors independently until you arrive at an overall power level you're comfortable with.

Jonas · Feb 6, 2014

Their strenghts are being black and blue and removing everything that hits the table. Spot removal and counters usually, maybe with some blink. It probably has a bit to do with most of us suck at deck building too. But yeah, it seems like spot removal and value is what makes the best deck here. Shriekmaw, sower, etc.

Eric Chan · Feb 6, 2014

Yeah, a quick glance at your list shows me that the power level of your creature base isn't too high, but on the flip side, you still run most of the best removal, all of the best counterspells, and some very hard-to-answer creature stealing. I think your best bet is to either juice up your creatures to have them keep pace with the spells, or tone down the spell section to put it more in line with the rest of your cube. In my own Modern list, for example, I don't run either Vedalken Shackles nor Sower of Temptation, as while those cards can be answered, they tend to be swingy and dominate the games in which they stick around.

Jonas · Feb 6, 2014

Yes, I've been looking at culling some removal, and increasing my creature power, but I'm not really sure on what creatures to add, guess I'll have to do some legwork on my own and look through people's cubes

Jonas · Feb 13, 2014

Quick and dirty change, since I got a card in the mail
In

Out

Taking out Squee for now, since he's only used in control and mid-range. Even though I adore the little sucker.

Jonas · Feb 21, 2014

Current utility land draft pile

5cc
Gemstone Mine
Thran Quarry
Terramorphic Expanse
City of Brass
Evolving Wilds

White
Windbrisk Heights
New Benalia
Kor Haven

Green
Treetop Village
Dryad Arbor
Heart of Yavimaya
Yavimaya Hollow

Black
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Bojuka Bog
Dakmor Salvage
Urborg

Blue
Riptide Laboratory
Shelldock Isle
Tolaria West
Soaring Seacliff
Halimar Depths
Faerie Conclave

Red
Hellion Crucible
Teetering Peaks

Ramp
Ancient Tomb
Innistrad
Kessig Wolf Run
Nephalia Drownyard
Vault of the Archangel
Gavony Township

Manlands
Urza's Factory
Blinkmoth Nexus
Mutavault
Mishra's Factory

Chris Taylor · Feb 21, 2014

Jeez, those lands!

Lands that could go to the main cube:

Mishra's Factory/Mutavault
Gavony Township/Kessig Wolf Run
Shelldock Isle
Treetop Village
Yavimaya Hollow (IMO)
Possibly City of Brass/Terramorphic Expanse/Evolving Wilds (I run all 3 in my cube, but if you want that to be the fixing in the utility pile keep em in)

Cards that seem horrible:

Do remember that these still need to be good enough to justify a card in your deck. The downsides on some of those horrible ones I mentioned is a bit steep for what they do
Except new belenia, but come on

Jonas · Feb 21, 2014

I agree on Yavimaya Hollow, it is good enough to warrant a pick, as is Kor Haven. Soaring Seacliff is better then it looks, that surprise flyer can be more useful then at least Teetering Peaks. The other ones in the horrilbepile are pretty horrible

At least Nexus can pump itself/Mutavault. I've been trying out the utility pile for a couple of times now, and my group hasn't really warmed up to it yet, I feel.

Alfonzo Bonzo · Feb 21, 2014

How's Thran Quarry?

Jonas · Feb 21, 2014

I think Thran Quarry works, I've only seen it sacrificed once so far.

Alfonzo Bonzo · Feb 21, 2014

I'm gonna try it.

Chris Taylor · Feb 22, 2014

Worst feeling ever:
Thran Quary, Birds, go.
End turn bolt?

Jonas · Feb 22, 2014

It's amazing to be the one bolting though.

Jonas · Mar 10, 2014

Changes

Out:

In:

Skipping the utility land draft for now, not really that fun when you don't have a full draft, which I almost never have.

Jonas · May 12, 2014

Pondering if I should just throw everything out and start over from the beginning, things are a bit too consistent deck-wise for me at the moment, and I'm not really sure how to make that part a bit more exciting, without cutting down on fun. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

FlowerSunRain · May 12, 2014

You mean your getting the feeling that your cube is just a handful a preconstructed archetypes with only a few cards shifting that don't really change things too much?

I think we've all been there at some point.

I wholeheartedly recommend starting from the bottom. When you try to "swap" or "cut down" to make a cube, you end up retaining a lot of the baggage of that design. It gets frustrating when you simultaneously trying to enact your vision while also fixing the old problems.

Its much better to completely clean the slate and think "what do I want to do" and "what do I need to do it" and start throwing cards onto the pile that accomplish that. I mean, you might end up being shocked when you aren't running "favorite card X", but more often then not I think you'll realize that "favorite card X" actually wasn't adding anything to the environment.

Jonas · Jul 31, 2014

So. Throwing stuff out, starting over. Pondering where I want my power level. Can these cards exist in the same cube?

vs

vs

vs

I'm glancing over at Eric's cube a lot, but on the other hand, I mostly play because of nostalgia, so I don't want to go only modern border.
I have no sacred cows over here, but I don't really know where to start either. I'm culling things like swords, jitte, probably stuff like shriekmaw, nekrataal, a lot of the artifacts really, maybe to replace them with hybrids? Who knows, hybrids are fun. Suggestions, thrashings and snide comments welcome.

Eric Chan · Jul 31, 2014

Before I even read your statement that you'd been looking at my cube, I was going to chime in to say that I banned both Falkenrath Aristocrat and Deathrite Shaman for power level reasons. Deathrite Shaman, in particular, is both annoying and oppressive in lower-powered lists.

Masked Admirers is at the other end of the spectrum. It's pretty weak, by any cube standards. So I don't think you want both him and Aristocrat residing in the same cube.

Scavenging Ooze is pretty powerful, but he's also fun, at least. I say run him!

Jonas · Jul 31, 2014

Masked admirers is a midrange herpderp value card, that I think only has a place in that sort of cube. Lower casting cost or power above the curve could have saved it I guess.

What I'm pondering is if you can build a cube where the power level is right for deathrite and falkenrath, but without it being oppressive if you happen to make a mistake during drafting or deck building. I usually play with one or two noob-ish players, and for them to have fun, you can't be punished whenever you make the slightest mistake, but they still like to see the powerful cards.