basically anything that makes you the monarch AND affects the board beyond being a vanilla creature at a decent rate is gonna be stronk
Sets (LTR) The Lord of the Rings: Tales of Middle Earth
- Thread starter Velrun
- Start date
I wish there was a way to fit stuff like this into the average cube. Like, gold cards have to be a lot more impactful and they're an absolute bear to draft because they only go in one deck. But this is just a nice little power level role player and it's cute. Hopefully it fits well for someone here with some kind of Esper Cube.
I wish there was a way to fit stuff like this into the average cube.
There is!
Ondezeeboot has managed by ‘cutting’ five Guild-combination from the cube. Kind of like How Wizards of the Coast mostly support five two-color combinations in each limited set. Mostly.
There are other ways too. Brad has a mostly black cube where an Orzhov card will feel very much like a mono white card because black is in abundance. Like Wizards did with Torment.
I'm not even sure your drafters would necessarily notice if a guild was missing until they got a few drafts under their belt.
That is possible! It's not something that people will necessarily consciously notice, but it does feel kinda like "oh, they'd be disappointed if they go [blank] because pool is clearly supported but there's no gold card for it and another [blank] gets at least one"
Of course I actually just play fewer gold cards, I'm down to 2 of every color + some hybrid stuff I enjoy having in (Companions! I love 'em! I'm nutty!), so really I should stop complaining and cut more gold cards so that it never happens.
edit: the act of writing this has convinced me I should cut from 20 down to 10, one per guild, because honestly, I wouldn't even miss... any of the cuts? every time I find myself going yeah naw Pernicious Deed doesn't need to be in here (or any other card from decades ago) it always surprises me, but really, it feels eminently replaceable and it's definitely not a payoff for being BG at all, unlike Grist who fits right in with graveyards and tokens and
Interesting. What is an average cube in your opinion?
I think we are on the wrong forum if we only design what I consider to be an average cube (High power, generic, non-creative duplicate of each other cubes) I would like to hear what your definition is.
Eh, even most riptiders are going to have a very flat distribution of colors among the cards in their cube?
I am not sure that is average on every way of measuring.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
In a statistical sense of the word average, the average cube could indeed be mostly black, if there are more cubes leaning black than there are cubes leaning other ways in the color distribution (which wouldn’t surprise me to be the case). However, average also means: “lacking special distinction, rank, or status; commonly encountered”, and from context I feel almost certain that this is the way they used the word average.
I think we can confidently say a mostly black cube is not the average cube in the sense that mostly black cubes are not commonly encountered compared to cubes with an even color distribution.
I think we can confidently say a mostly black cube is not the average cube in the sense that mostly black cubes are not commonly encountered compared to cubes with an even color distribution.
Maybe. We’ll see what they think.
I gave examples of how it could be done on a forum the specializes in cubes that aren’t the classic cube that almost every cube is/was. And my solution wasn’t satisfying because one of my examples follow a special design rule that definitely isn’t an average cube exclamation mark.
I gave examples of how it could be done on a forum the specializes in cubes that aren’t the classic cube that almost every cube is/was. And my solution wasn’t satisfying because one of my examples follow a special design rule that definitely isn’t an average cube exclamation mark.
Huge post that's not about LOTR ahead. Sorry all!
I took a whack at being systematic. Wall of text below:
So after all that thinking, I retract my point. A black-centric, or generally color-imbalanced, cube falls on the "average cube" side if we have to pick exactly two sides. If we don't, and it's a spectrum, it's somewhere in the middle, just like every other darn thing.
(edit: oh and also in case it was not obvious, not being an average cube is not a bad thing! Just means you're atypical. And who minds that?)
I'm sure you know it's not "the exact Magic Online Legacy Cube". The more I think about this, the more it feels like Potter Stewarting - "I know it when I see it", except everyone's "it" is different.
I took a whack at being systematic. Wall of text below:
Disqualifying traits to be an "average cube" are any one of:
-not designed to be drafted by 4-8 players (2-player cubes and cubes for more than 8 both feel outside the average. Distinct from actual cube size, for example a 720 designed for 8 is still average even if there's extra cards.)
-not deliberately curated (one copy of every card from a single set barely counts to me, anything bigger is right out, ditto a literal pile of random cards)
-has alternative draft rules (utility land draft, no basic land box, EDH draft, squadron picks. I anticipate that this is my most controversial bullet point across both lists.)
-contains things that are not Magic: the Gathering cards (by this I mean "contains Bill or Yata-Garasu" or the Two of Diamonds) (please do not put Yata-Garasu in your cube, it's miserable)
But a cube is still "within the average cube" even if it has (any or) all of:
-rules governing card selection for the cube itself ("commons only" or "new frame only")
-themes ("tribal", "Halloween Cube", "artifacts-matter cube")
-duplicates
-custom cards (no spot on the sliding scale from "Blarmonize so I can run two Concentrate without duplicates" to "Blaben Blinspector because I think Hard Evidence should be flickerable" to "an entire custom cube" where I say "no longer average". Even when that ends up with 360 totally new cards, it's an average cube in form even if the content is novel!)
-missing card types, mechanics, or, yeah, entire colors? (The process of typing this up convinced me that missing two colors altogether is functionally the same as not putting planeswalkers in your cube, and since the latter would easily still fall within average, the former must as well. It shapes your environment but not your draft and play, if that distinction makes sense?)
Honestly, I think my working "know it when I see it" definition is that an "average cube" is one where I sit down, open my first pack, and manage to end the draft and deckbuilding without feeling like I got sucker-punched somehow. I open a pack, it's got no white cards in it or it's 50% monoblack cards and 30% black/x gold cards, sure, I can roll with that. Even without external confirmation that the distribution of the entire cube is such that I've accurately estimated the entire cube's contents. Therefore, I was wrong, a cube that omits colors is still quite capable of being an average cube.
-not designed to be drafted by 4-8 players (2-player cubes and cubes for more than 8 both feel outside the average. Distinct from actual cube size, for example a 720 designed for 8 is still average even if there's extra cards.)
-not deliberately curated (one copy of every card from a single set barely counts to me, anything bigger is right out, ditto a literal pile of random cards)
-has alternative draft rules (utility land draft, no basic land box, EDH draft, squadron picks. I anticipate that this is my most controversial bullet point across both lists.)
-contains things that are not Magic: the Gathering cards (by this I mean "contains Bill or Yata-Garasu" or the Two of Diamonds) (please do not put Yata-Garasu in your cube, it's miserable)
But a cube is still "within the average cube" even if it has (any or) all of:
-rules governing card selection for the cube itself ("commons only" or "new frame only")
-themes ("tribal", "Halloween Cube", "artifacts-matter cube")
-duplicates
-custom cards (no spot on the sliding scale from "Blarmonize so I can run two Concentrate without duplicates" to "Blaben Blinspector because I think Hard Evidence should be flickerable" to "an entire custom cube" where I say "no longer average". Even when that ends up with 360 totally new cards, it's an average cube in form even if the content is novel!)
-missing card types, mechanics, or, yeah, entire colors? (The process of typing this up convinced me that missing two colors altogether is functionally the same as not putting planeswalkers in your cube, and since the latter would easily still fall within average, the former must as well. It shapes your environment but not your draft and play, if that distinction makes sense?)
Honestly, I think my working "know it when I see it" definition is that an "average cube" is one where I sit down, open my first pack, and manage to end the draft and deckbuilding without feeling like I got sucker-punched somehow. I open a pack, it's got no white cards in it or it's 50% monoblack cards and 30% black/x gold cards, sure, I can roll with that. Even without external confirmation that the distribution of the entire cube is such that I've accurately estimated the entire cube's contents. Therefore, I was wrong, a cube that omits colors is still quite capable of being an average cube.
This! In terms of what I was originally saying, I think that even color distributions (often rigid to the cube's detriment) are far more common in the cube community, thus "closer to the average cube" in whatever Platonic sense of "mundane everyday typical example of the genre" I meant. I'm sure I don't have to convince anyone here that color balance is one of the mtgsal-style sacred cows that people here are a lot more willing to jettison.
(edit: oh and also in case it was not obvious, not being an average cube is not a bad thing! Just means you're atypical. And who minds that?)
@Seeker
It was important to you that the cube that could include the card was average. I tried to ‘help’ by answering your question. Take the advice or don’t if you dislike it I think Onde’s and Brad’s solutions are really cool and fun. And they allow cards that you cannot always include in a power max cube for instance. We are all about that on Riptidelab
It was important to you that the cube that could include the card was average. I tried to ‘help’ by answering your question. Take the advice or don’t if you dislike it
I think Onde’s and Brad’s solutions are really cool and fun. And they allow cards that you cannot always include in a power max cube for instance. We are all about that on Riptidelab 
Some cards in the image gallery are pretty cool. Shall we?
Nobody is talking about Old Man Willow, and I think that's a damn shame. He's a Golgari Goodstuff critter through and through and suffers from needing to untap, but is the cheapest "p/t are equal to your land count" creature yet and comes with a side of removal. While he's not a draw into BG, he's a fun payoff that shrinks boards nicely.
Depending on what your Blue section looks like this creature can be nutty. Goes crazy with Castle Vantress, a campus, a temple, or Rivendell. Bonus points if you run Aqueous Form!
I'm always split between wanting my cube to be a 3-mana or a 2-mana counterspell format, so 3-mana counters with upside are really tempting to me. This look like a good one.
I love "light tribal" like this and will probably try to shoehorn it into my cube.
Look, it's not good, but you can combo off with Elas il-Kor, Carnival of Souls and Ashnod's Altar, so that's worth a mention, right? Point being, if you ever make eyes at Sanitarium Skeleton the way I sometimes do you should peep this fellow too.
I don't love the ring thing, but the knight is indeed a one-drop and the ring is indeed an aggro mechanic. Please do not ask me how the flavor works here.
Dogs! If you're willing to sharpie out the sorcery bit it's actually a good card.
How many of these will I include? Probably the counterspell and Gorbag, maybe the Scry Guy, but I *like* all of these. Maybe you will too! But more importantly, why is the copyright addressed to MEE?
Nobody is talking about Old Man Willow, and I think that's a damn shame. He's a Golgari Goodstuff critter through and through and suffers from needing to untap, but is the cheapest "p/t are equal to your land count" creature yet and comes with a side of removal. While he's not a draw into BG, he's a fun payoff that shrinks boards nicely.
Depending on what your Blue section looks like this creature can be nutty. Goes crazy with Castle Vantress, a campus, a temple, or Rivendell. Bonus points if you run Aqueous Form!
I'm always split between wanting my cube to be a 3-mana or a 2-mana counterspell format, so 3-mana counters with upside are really tempting to me. This look like a good one.
I love "light tribal" like this and will probably try to shoehorn it into my cube.
Look, it's not good, but you can combo off with Elas il-Kor, Carnival of Souls and Ashnod's Altar, so that's worth a mention, right? Point being, if you ever make eyes at Sanitarium Skeleton the way I sometimes do you should peep this fellow too.
I don't love the ring thing, but the knight is indeed a one-drop and the ring is indeed an aggro mechanic. Please do not ask me how the flavor works here.
Dogs! If you're willing to sharpie out the sorcery bit it's actually a good card.
How many of these will I include? Probably the counterspell and Gorbag, maybe the Scry Guy, but I *like* all of these. Maybe you will too! But more importantly, why is the copyright addressed to MEE?
While Embracer did purchase them outright, the rights to [specific parts of] the Hobbit and LotR for reproduction purposes, including for movies and trading card games, are owned by Middle-earth Enterprises. (why isn't it MeE? Tolkein's capitalization was very deliberate!)
I did the Friday Prerelease and went 3-0 with this neat deck:
My pool had a pretty sweet R/B Amass core but I was lacking playable so I decided to splash White. Got lucky with two of the landcyclers (these are so damn good for fixing) that let me play down to 16 lands. All the instances of Ring tempts allowed me to at least get a creature up to looter status which kept me from mana issues in all but one game where I had both copies of Errand-Rider of Gondor stuck in hand with no white source. That was the only time it really hurt though, aside from that they usually just cantripped me and often I'd have turn where I'd loot with the ringbearer to get a land, play the land, then deploy a Rider which was straight gas. Pretty fun gameplay overall, was expecting a fun Limited set and they definitely delivered with the various different lines I could take with this build.
My games mostly came down to Amassing up to a 4/4 which could rock on most boardstates while firing off timely removal to clear the way and then peck away with either unblockable ringbearers or with small pings via Denethor, Ruling Steward and Grima Wormtongue. March of the Black Gate was pretty nutty if I was able to chain instances of Amass rapidly growing a token to the point where the opponent had to fire off removal to keep up. There was a neat trick of being able to pick an Army as my ringbearer with the Ring up to 3, force a "trade" from the opponent, have the sacrifice trigger go on the stack, and then use Grima to sac and drain for 1 while giving me a new 2/2 Army and clearing a blocker. It was pretty sick. Denethor let me loop some sacrifice fodder to keep up a wide board with a mini-Extort impression. Barad-Dur and Eowyn, Fearless Knight were my two big bombs and came through for me each time either amassing an army to a sizeable 3/3 or 4/4 (sometimes as a combat trick with sac outlets) or straight up exiling a big blocker/bomb and then allowing me to crack in for 6-7 damage while I had fodder back to defend the crackback. A lot of lines of play that led to me thinking a turn or two ahead in terms of pings that would allow me to chain removal/force blocks in a way that would close the game out. Opened up nothing of value within my pool or prize packs, but a buddy traded me his Promo Sauron, the Dark Lord which I am absolutely building for EDH sometime this summer.
Pretty fun experience all around. Amass and Food and the Ring Tempts You (despite being absolute dogshit flavorwise as confirmed by every confused person I played against) all worked very well. Unfortunately these are mechanics that are wholly dependent on a critical mass of these effects that I don't see it ever finding a home in my cube anytime soon. It's a shame that this is priced as a premium set because I'm not particularly interested in drafting at that price point despite having fun with it. But who knows, with the amount of product sure to be opened with this set I might just build a set cube down the line if singles wind up being dirt cheap.
Mardu Amass
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My pool had a pretty sweet R/B Amass core but I was lacking playable so I decided to splash White. Got lucky with two of the landcyclers (these are so damn good for fixing) that let me play down to 16 lands. All the instances of Ring tempts allowed me to at least get a creature up to looter status which kept me from mana issues in all but one game where I had both copies of Errand-Rider of Gondor stuck in hand with no white source. That was the only time it really hurt though, aside from that they usually just cantripped me and often I'd have turn where I'd loot with the ringbearer to get a land, play the land, then deploy a Rider which was straight gas. Pretty fun gameplay overall, was expecting a fun Limited set and they definitely delivered with the various different lines I could take with this build.
My games mostly came down to Amassing up to a 4/4 which could rock on most boardstates while firing off timely removal to clear the way and then peck away with either unblockable ringbearers or with small pings via Denethor, Ruling Steward and Grima Wormtongue. March of the Black Gate was pretty nutty if I was able to chain instances of Amass rapidly growing a token to the point where the opponent had to fire off removal to keep up. There was a neat trick of being able to pick an Army as my ringbearer with the Ring up to 3, force a "trade" from the opponent, have the sacrifice trigger go on the stack, and then use Grima to sac and drain for 1 while giving me a new 2/2 Army and clearing a blocker. It was pretty sick. Denethor let me loop some sacrifice fodder to keep up a wide board with a mini-Extort impression. Barad-Dur and Eowyn, Fearless Knight were my two big bombs and came through for me each time either amassing an army to a sizeable 3/3 or 4/4 (sometimes as a combat trick with sac outlets) or straight up exiling a big blocker/bomb and then allowing me to crack in for 6-7 damage while I had fodder back to defend the crackback. A lot of lines of play that led to me thinking a turn or two ahead in terms of pings that would allow me to chain removal/force blocks in a way that would close the game out. Opened up nothing of value within my pool or prize packs, but a buddy traded me his Promo Sauron, the Dark Lord which I am absolutely building for EDH sometime this summer.
Pretty fun experience all around. Amass and Food and the Ring Tempts You (despite being absolute dogshit flavorwise as confirmed by every confused person I played against) all worked very well. Unfortunately these are mechanics that are wholly dependent on a critical mass of these effects that I don't see it ever finding a home in my cube anytime soon. It's a shame that this is priced as a premium set because I'm not particularly interested in drafting at that price point despite having fun with it. But who knows, with the amount of product sure to be opened with this set I might just build a set cube down the line if singles wind up being dirt cheap.
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Kinda surprises me that the mechanic didn't have a better name, because I agree with you that it plays pretty well. Why not something like, "Use the Ring" or "Wield the Ring" or something? The existing name is so silly.
Now who's going to throw it into a volcano?
There is!
Ondezeeboot has managed by ‘cutting’ five Guild-combination from the cube. Kind of like How Wizards of the Coast mostly support five two-color combinations in each limited set. Mostly.
There are other ways too. Brad has a mostly black cube where an Orzhov card will feel very much like a mono white card because black is in abundance. Like Wizards did with Torment.
These role-player type cards would be much better (for my cube, at least) as hybrids. Imagine this as a
card! It's not exciting for me as a card that goes in ~10% of decks, but as a card that could feasibly go in any white or black deck it's very elegant-looking.