Nathan's Cube

At Eric's request from a few days ago, here's my cube list. It's a mostly-modern cube; my official criteria for a card's inclusion is that it was either first printed in the modern era or it was reprinted in a booster release in the modern era. This includes banned cards, cards designed for summer multiplayer products, and many silver-bordered cards¹.

My list is strongly singleton, by which I mean not only is there only one card of a given name, I don't include cards that are functionally identical to another card in the cube. I care about identity within the context of the cube; this means that I don't include Kodama's Reach even though it's Arcane and Cultivate is not, because there are no cards in the cube that care about it being Arcane. However, I do include both Savannah Lions and Elite Vanguard, because the inclusion of Captain of the Watch means that they aren't always functionally identical.

Aesthetically speaking, my cube is designed to evoke the design principles of the modern era more than the feeling of the Modern constructed format. This means it's very creature-focused, ideally with a good balance between aggro, control, ramp, and tempo. There's some support for combo--mostly Kiki-Jiki/Splinter Twin--but it's less common and often less powerful than the other decks. Reanimation spells and enablers exist in the cube, but due to the relatively high cost of the spells available this is usually more of a side strategy in black decks. Effective dedicated Reanimator decks are few and far between.

I have a couple directions I'm trying to take the cube at the moment. A while back I started recording data about the drafts, and discovered that red decks, mono-red in particular, were performing much better than anything else. I've been trying to scale back red's power without incidentally hosing other aggro decks. Mostly this has meant taking out dedicated-burn cards like Hellspark Elemental and land destruction like Molten Rain, both of which fit better in heavy-red decks than other, more battlefield-focused aggro decks. This has been largely successful, but I am interested in ways to make non-red (or part-red) aggro decks better.

I'm also unhappy with the quality of black, especially when paired with white. Black is the worst color in the cube, and Orzhov is by far the worst color combination, with a match win percentage of 25%². I'm constantly looking for ways to fix this, but it's difficult with the tools available. Without some of the broken pre-modern cards available, black's strongest area is one-for-one removal, which tends to match up poorly against cube creatures. Recently, partly inspired by Jason's cube, I've been trying more of a graveyard/sacrifice theme in black; it remains to be seen how well this works.

Let me know what you think, if you have any questions, etc.

1. For silver-bordered cards in particular, I only like including them when I feel like they do something that's outside the normal Magic rules but still playable in a rigorous way. This means I don't include Blast from the Past, for instance, because it operates completely within black-bordered rules.

2. This may be an artificially low number; because experienced drafters tend to consider Orzhov to be bad, it's drafted more often by less-experienced drafters. Still, my subjective impression is also that it's the worst color combination.
 

CML

Contributor
quick impressions:

'strongly singleton' - seems trivial, devote your cube time to more important design stuff. same comment applies to the persnickety efforts at taxonomy in the spreadsheet, the obsessive keeping of match win records etc. the fact is that a well-balanced cube is never the same twice and never has a large enough sample size to support meaningful statistics outside of key elements like curve, which means that for most of the important stuff you gotta rely on your own subjective impressions and feedback from your playgroup.
modern - i like the mix of old spells and new creatures but it's just a preference, seems like if you wanted to hose aggro a little you could include more old spells in the vein of cataclysm, fact or fiction, reanimate, wildfire.
red's dominance - this is a big point about the modo cube for me: since the cube red deck is never by any stretch of the imagination a 'tier 2 legacy deck' (as some have written) or even a passable budget fnm standard deck, but a roided-up limited aggro deck with a curve to match, this most likely means that your cube's other decks are bad. (i mean 'bad' not as a slur so much as a descriptor for 'lacking power.') they are probably bad because they are stumbling out of the gate. they are probably stumbling out of the gate because their curves are too high. in other words when rdw does win a lot it's not because it's good it's because the other decks are not good (this applies to standard formats too, cf. the inevitable post-rotation red popularity).
black - black isn't intrinsically bad in cube but the outside perception is that it is, here are three common reasons: 1. because its spells do little against durdly decks, which since your cube is creature-centric and aggro-heavy i doubt this is the case. 2. spreading it too thin trying to support a mono-black archetype, which isn't present either. 3. wasting slots supporting the inevitably terrible black aggro, which you do a little of but not too much. i think the issue is that your black cards are polarized in quality. really bad: undying evil, altar's reap, devour flesh, hexmage, chittering rats, liliana's specter, morbid plunder, crypt ghast, zombify, beacon of unrest, and of course unplayable-walker poster child lilly of the dark realms. really good: blossom, infest, phyrexian arena, real lilly, grave titan, profane command, and so on. the latter category is picked thin by multiple drafters leaving only the former to fill out their decks. you said elsewhere you supported a steepish power curve (at least compared to here) but consider the possibility it's especially steep in your black section. i very much like the power level for the "good" black cards but for the "bad" ones, there are so many alternatives at all CMCs, it must have taken a lot of effort to make them this weak! (let me know if you'd like some suggestions?)
orzhov - orzhov oozes value in cube. the spells generate no card advantage but are disgustingly efficient for their cost. gerrard's verdict, sculler, souls, rites, vindicate, mortify, angel, sorin, obzedat all make me drool. vault too. since the orzhov cards themselves are always fantastic all the time, i think your orzhov decks must underperform due to the issues with black.
aggro - since i don't see modo-cube auto-win classics like vise or even vortex in here and there's an absurdly low concentration of red 1-drops, i'm pretty sure the following is going on. multi-color aggro necessitates good mana, and with your miserly density of fixing (48/540), only the dude with all basics will ever have good mana. other colors don't have realistic mono-colored aggro strategies. ergo, mono-red wins a lot. (as seen on TV!)
wrap-up - building on the last point, a lack of sufficient fixing is the worst habit of conventional cube design; i've found it results in more non-games and lessens the possibilities for cross-color synergies. if you tried it, you'd see it'd be a far lesser error to play with double the number of lands you have currently. i'm sure with your steep power curve there are 48 cards that get played rarely if ever and they could be amputated as painlessly as a necrotic appendage. again, if you want better control decks, ADD MORE FIXING. if you want more interaction, ADD MORE FIXING. if you want other aggro strategies, ADD MORE FIXING. a few other hobgoblins from conventional design persist in your cube - mana-curve slightly too high, half-hearted attempt to support impossible themes, cards without homes, etc. but i have a feeling that if you increase drastically the amount of fixing then the rest of the design will direct itself.

i hope this helped!
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Out of curiosity (as surely you know my stance on singleton), do you find there to be any environmental advantages to keeping singleton, or is it more of a personal preference thing?

Lately I've been really embracing redundancy as a necessary factor for promoting synergy over raw card power, and it's been adding a lot to the environment.

Also, your Orzhov problem is a familiar one. Once an archetype is considered to be bad, the good players avoid it and its win rate goes down even further. I always try to push these archetypes until they pass the test of "am I excited to draft this deck". I find that gut feeling far more valuable than match statistics.
 

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
Hey Nathan, thanks for posting your list! I'm always curious to delve into other Modern cubes, in part because they're not all that common. From punching our lists into Rob's kickass tool, it's probably not surprising how many of our cards overlap. Obviously, you run a larger list, but those blue highlighted sections are still nice and meaty. I'm particularly fond of how you keep track of the cards you used to run, but have since cut, as well as the little annotations and notes you've attached to many of the cards with your personal observations. Your attention to detail is impressive!

Your black section looks a lot like mine from six months ago - a bit schizophrenic, with cards pulling in multiple directions, but doing most everything poorly, save for spot removal. As Chris touched on, cards like Zombify and Beacon of Unrest are typically too far below the power curve to be meaningful, and are additionally hampered by the fact that they're difficult to set up. Even if you manage to pull off a vaunted reanimation spell, the opponent will have had ample time to prepare for that scenario, and can often undo your hard work with a single spot removal spell.

I found in my cube that "traditional" black aggro - two power one drop beaters, evasive two drops, etc. - was a pipe dream. It was slower than the red aggro decks, packed less punch than white aggro, and didn't have as many tricks up its sleeve as blue aggro. Moreover, it folded to nearly every other creature-based deck. After taking notes from Kranny, Andy Cooperfauss, and Jason, I tried a suite of recursive creatures along with sacrifice synergies, and it's been helpful in making up the lost ground. If you want to enable a sacrifice theme in black, while sticking to Modern, you can experiment with some or all of these:

Viscera Seer
Nether Traitor
Reassembling Skeleton (an all-star!)
Pawn of Ulamog
Marsh Flitter
Stinkweed Imp
Smallpox
Squee, Goblin Nabob
Falkenrath Aristocrat
Blasting Station (often the MVP)
Jinxed Idol
Mortarpod
Spawning Pit

I suspect that even with all of these cards in the mix, though, the sacrifice theme will still be on the low end of the power spectrum in your arena. It's partly because assembling the deck will be difficult in a large cube, with only singleton copies of key cogs like Gravecrawler and Bloodghast. But it's also partly because, for all the effort it takes to gather its moving pieces, the strategy can be stone walled by a single high-power card like Wurmcoil Engine or Inferno Titan. I don't mean to pile onto the sentiment that breaking singleton is absolutely necessary, since everyone runs their cube their own way, but I think that this is an archetype that benefits greatly from having multiple copies of its staples.

In going through the cube diff, I also find it curious that even with your high artifact count, you don't run cards like Disenchant or Nature's Claim. Have you found the amount of artifact removal to be sufficient, without needing to include dedicated hate cards?
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Blasting Station has been really good (and fun). Last game I played with it came down to the wire. I untapped with my opponent at 8, while he sat with an army that was going to swing for lethal. Blasting Station pinged him down to 1, and on his upkeep he died to his own Dark Confidant. I thought it would be too slow, but with a good critical mass it really does the trick.
 

Eric Chan

Hyalopterous Lemure
Staff member
Yep, Blasting Station is the linchpin that holds the whole deck together here, too. Especially when the games grind down to an unbreakable board stall, the ability to go to the face with a full auto machine gun is indispensable.
 

CML

Contributor
i love eric's idea. i suggest goblin bombardment, cartel aristocrat, blood artist, lingering souls, attrition, altar of dementia, mortician beetle, carrion feeder, cabal therapy, awakening zone, diabolic intent, plagued rusalka, helm of possession, lyzolda, the blood witch, golgari guildmage, miren, the moaning well, victimize, and your favorite threaten effects

building on the 'bad aggro' theme, cards like elite vanguard and savannah lions (and their red counterparts tattermunge maniac and jackal pup) are simply not strong and i'm pretty sure it's better to give aggressive decks access to more 1-drops by adding more fixing than it is to stuff single colors full of borderline unplayables
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
I gotta say I'm pretty jealous that you guys get so much play in. I looked at the records, and it seems you get 2 drafts in most weeks. Some decks even get played for 6 matches. That's pretty awesome.
 
Wow, blasting station looks great, but how is it pinging for that much damage? Can't it only do one point a turn+number of creatures cast that turn? Unless you have a big Martial Coup or something lined up, how are you getting seven damage in?

Still, I love me a sacrifice outlet for all sorts of reasons. I just put Helm of Possession in my cube for that reason--which is a card you might look at. Oh, damn, too old for Modern, I guess...
 
Out of curiosity (as surely you know my stance on singleton), do you find there to be any environmental advantages to keeping singleton, or is it more of a personal preference thing?

Lately I've been really embracing redundancy as a necessary factor for promoting synergy over raw card power, and it's been adding a lot to the environment.

I definitely appreciate the value of redundancy. For me, it's really a "restrictions breed creativity" thing. I think there are a great many ways to build fun cubes, and I want to see how I can best maximize the fun of the cube given the constraints I set out with ("strong" singleton, mostly-modern, high-power, etc). There are certainly problems that would be neatly solved by breaking singleton, but that area is being explored magnificently by you and others on this forum. I want to see if I can find different solutions than the ones you turn up.

Someday I may give up on my quest, or choose to focus on different restrictions. On that day I'll throw in all the Gravecrawlers and Mana Leaks the cube can stand. But that's not going to happen for a while.

Also, your Orzhov problem is a familiar one. Once an archetype is considered to be bad, the good players avoid it and its win rate goes down even further. I always try to push these archetypes until they pass the test of "am I excited to draft this deck". I find that gut feeling far more valuable than match statistics.

I think you may be downplaying the value of statistics a little bit. They can certainly fail to represent reality for a time (due to reasons you mentioned), but there's an easy way to get them to correct: start beating everyone with the under-drafted deck. My drafters are generally clever enough to pick up on that pretty quickly.

Unfortunately, for Orzhov, my statistics and my gut are in agreement: it's bad.

Hey Nathan, thanks for posting your list! I'm always curious to delve into other Modern cubes, in part because they're not all that common. From punching our lists into Rob's kickass tool, it's probably not surprising how many of our cards overlap. Obviously, you run a larger list, but those blue highlighted sections are still nice and meaty. I'm particularly fond of how you keep track of the cards you used to run, but have since cut, as well as the little annotations and notes you've attached to many of the cards with your personal observations. Your attention to detail is impressive!

Your black section looks a lot like mine from six months ago - a bit schizophrenic, with cards pulling in multiple directions, but doing most everything poorly, save for spot removal. As Chris touched on, cards like Zombify and Beacon of Unrest are typically too far below the power curve to be meaningful, and are additionally hampered by the fact that they're difficult to set up. Even if you manage to pull off a vaunted reanimation spell, the opponent will have had ample time to prepare for that scenario, and can often undo your hard work with a single spot removal spell.

I found in my cube that "traditional" black aggro - two power one drop beaters, evasive two drops, etc. - was a pipe dream. It was slower than the red aggro decks, packed less punch than white aggro, and didn't have as many tricks up its sleeve as blue aggro. Moreover, it folded to nearly every other creature-based deck. After taking notes from Kranny, Andy Cooperfauss, and Jason, I tried a suite of recursive creatures along with sacrifice synergies, and it's been helpful in making up the lost ground. If you want to enable a sacrifice theme in black, while sticking to Modern, you can experiment with some or all of these:

Viscera Seer
Nether Traitor
Reassembling Skeleton (an all-star!)
Pawn of Ulamog
Marsh Flitter
Stinkweed Imp
Smallpox
Squee, Goblin Nabob
Falkenrath Aristocrat
Blasting Station (often the MVP)
Jinxed Idol
Mortarpod
Spawning Pit

I suspect that even with all of these cards in the mix, though, the sacrifice theme will still be on the low end of the power spectrum in your arena. It's partly because assembling the deck will be difficult in a large cube, with only singleton copies of key cogs like Gravecrawler and Bloodghast. But it's also partly because, for all the effort it takes to gather its moving pieces, the strategy can be stone walled by a single high-power card like Wurmcoil Engine or Inferno Titan. I don't mean to pile onto the sentiment that breaking singleton is absolutely necessary, since everyone runs their cube their own way, but I think that this is an archetype that benefits greatly from having multiple copies of its staples.

These are some good suggestions, thanks. I think some of these are probably too slow, conditional, or low-impact, but there are others there that I hadn't thought of yet. I'll give them a try.

I agree with you that it's going to be tough to make this into a top-tier deck. In fact, I think it's probably just not possible without the printing of at least a couple more high-impact cards that fit well with the strategy. But I don't think necessarily need it to be top-tier; I'd be happy enough if many good decks had a little sacrifice synergy, and the more Johnny-minded of my drafters were occasionally able to build a deck that had a lot of it... even if that deck was never the best at the table.

In going through the cube diff, I also find it curious that even with your high artifact count, you don't run cards like Disenchant or Nature's Claim. Have you found the amount of artifact removal to be sufficient, without needing to include dedicated hate cards?

I'm pretty happy with the amount of artifact removal. Disenchant in particular was swapped out directly for Sundering Growth for the occasional cute populate synergy; Nature's Claim is hovering on the borders of inclusion, but I think it's worse than the artifact- and enchantment-destroying creatures that are currently in green.

I gotta say I'm pretty jealous that you guys get so much play in. I looked at the records, and it seems you get 2 drafts in most weeks. Some decks even get played for 6 matches. That's pretty awesome.

I think this frequent iterations and testing are extremely important for any sort of design, cube being no exception. I'm very lucky to have a playgroup that can put together two drafts a week most of the time.

Wow, blasting station looks great, but how is it pinging for that much damage? Can't it only do one point a turn+number of creatures cast that turn? Unless you have a big Martial Coup or something lined up, how are you getting seven damage in?

I suspect Gravecrawler and other recursive creatures help make it an engine to reckon with.
 

Jason Waddell

Administrator
Staff member
Yes, beating people with underdrafted decks is usually my go to move. We have some local stubbornness though. No matter how many times I 3 - 0 with multicolor aggro decks, some drafters just don't learn how to draft the archetypes.

Re: undervaluing statistics: I'll say that if I had access to the quality and volume of data that Wizards has on their cube, I would have a blast digging through it. As far as local cube data goes, it would be interesting to fit some sort of mixed-effects or Bradley Terry model to get a good estimate of color power levels when accounting for player skill. Part of the problem I've been having with analyzing my own cube is a pretty large disparity in player skill that eclipses whatever differences there are in archetype power. The same players tend to have similar records from week to week regardless of what they play.

Regarding Orzhov, can you elaborate on what you find black and white's problems to be?
 

CML

Contributor
orzhov: because the multicolor section is 5 cards (including the underpowered sin collector and obzedat's aid), white has such hits as steppe lynx elite vanguard and savannah lions, the black section is schizophrenic as described above, and half the games you get color-screwed or lose to solas. just a guess though

wizards data: i'd have a blast with it too instead of using it to justify anything per mccall et al

edit: casting something that costs UUBBBRR seems a bit ambitious
 
Man, I wish I drafted enough to get data. Jason, I have no idea what I'm doing with statistics, so don't mock me too hard, but here are the (Pearson) correlations between win percentage and:
# of colors played: -0.06
# of white cards in deck: -0.10
# of blue cards in deck: 0.31
# of black cards in deck: -0.11
# of red cards in deck: 0.08
# of green cards in deck: -0.02
# of white+black cards: -0.19

A reminder to all cubers: remember to draft blue!

Obviously, this is pretty meaningless since I didn't account for player quality. Still, numbers!
 
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