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Raveborn Meddlings: My first cube, presentable at last!
- Thread starter RavebornMuse
- Start date
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
If you're breaking singleton anyway, do yourself a favor and order two Wildfires instead of one and a Burning of Xingyinyang.
From my experience:
Expensive staples that is not worth it: Force of Will
Expensive staple that I'm on the fence about: Dark Confidant
Expensive staples that are awesome in cube: Snapcaster Mage, Vendilion Clique, Liliana of the Veil
From my experience:
Expensive staples that is not worth it: Force of Will
Expensive staple that I'm on the fence about: Dark Confidant
Expensive staples that are awesome in cube: Snapcaster Mage, Vendilion Clique, Liliana of the Veil
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Check out my list for some wildfire help. I wrote a primer back in the day, but I've settled on colorless mana rocks over specifically red based ones (Less Fire diamond more Everflowing Chalice) since the human brain is really REALLY bad at identifying which colors a card is, so fire diamond STILL has the same problem I had with the signets: people don't play them when they really should. (I've seen so many Gruul Signets wheel when the UW player could have really used them, but they're fine slamming mind stone 3rd pick and never cycling it)
Cards I'd recommend: Mind Stone, Everflowing Chalice, and Prismatic Lens.
I love having these guys since they do enable a T3 wrath, but you still have to work for it. Prismatic lens in particular looks weird and low powered, but the weird shimmering grotto ability works better than it looks when it's already on something as powerful as colorless rampant growth.
Rolling Earthquake: The best red sweeper. The difference between this and regular earthquake is real, since flying is super common. The FTW:Annihilation version is only about 5$ right now, and it's well worth the price.
Actually on that note: the FTV burning is 3$, and MM15 wildfires are 0.50$. both are cheap, go with what looks coolest to you (I've still got burning in till I find a second foil 9th Wildfire)
Cards I'd Caution against:
Sphere of the Suns: While this card does actually fix your mana and appear colorless like it should, it introduces a frustrating resource management mini-game where there really shouldn't be one. Your players will be really angry the first time they realize they should have taken 2 from a shockland instead of using this thing so that 5 turns later they could cast their second spell. And there's basically no way they can predict shit like that.
Coldsteel Heart: A) Being from coldsnap sucks for the price, and B) Your players will forget what color this was on and accidentally cheat. If nobody cares, nobody cares, but given that the additional utility you get from adding any of the 3 I recommend above, I'd just make the switch.
Coalition Relic: Ah the Jitte of Mana Rocks (well, other thansol ring. BTW don't play sol ring, it's stronger than most of the power 9 combined). Too strong, and since it's so strong the deck that actually wants consistent color fixing mana rocks never gets it, since Ramp decks will pick this thing over Inferno Titan, control decks will pick this thing over wrath of god, and midrange decks will pick this over Shriekmaw. It's brainless and helps nobody.
Destructive Force: The difference between this thing and wildfire is too great: 6 vs 5 toughness is way too big a barrier, leaving you basically only titans, and the 7th mana makes it noticably harder to cast.
Cards I'd recommend: Mind Stone, Everflowing Chalice, and Prismatic Lens.
I love having these guys since they do enable a T3 wrath, but you still have to work for it. Prismatic lens in particular looks weird and low powered, but the weird shimmering grotto ability works better than it looks when it's already on something as powerful as colorless rampant growth.
Rolling Earthquake: The best red sweeper. The difference between this and regular earthquake is real, since flying is super common. The FTW:Annihilation version is only about 5$ right now, and it's well worth the price.
Actually on that note: the FTV burning is 3$, and MM15 wildfires are 0.50$. both are cheap, go with what looks coolest to you (I've still got burning in till I find a second foil 9th Wildfire)
Cards I'd Caution against:
Sphere of the Suns: While this card does actually fix your mana and appear colorless like it should, it introduces a frustrating resource management mini-game where there really shouldn't be one. Your players will be really angry the first time they realize they should have taken 2 from a shockland instead of using this thing so that 5 turns later they could cast their second spell. And there's basically no way they can predict shit like that.
Coldsteel Heart: A) Being from coldsnap sucks for the price, and B) Your players will forget what color this was on and accidentally cheat. If nobody cares, nobody cares, but given that the additional utility you get from adding any of the 3 I recommend above, I'd just make the switch.
Coalition Relic: Ah the Jitte of Mana Rocks (well, other thansol ring. BTW don't play sol ring, it's stronger than most of the power 9 combined). Too strong, and since it's so strong the deck that actually wants consistent color fixing mana rocks never gets it, since Ramp decks will pick this thing over Inferno Titan, control decks will pick this thing over wrath of god, and midrange decks will pick this over Shriekmaw. It's brainless and helps nobody.
Destructive Force: The difference between this thing and wildfire is too great: 6 vs 5 toughness is way too big a barrier, leaving you basically only titans, and the 7th mana makes it noticably harder to cast.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Hey, some useful pointers on mana rocks. Nice! I think I need some more custom rocks then (or double up on the good and straightforward ones), because I still cube Coldsteel Heart and Sphere of the Suns, and those concerns are real. I also wholeheartedly agree on Coalition Relic. That thing is ridiculous, and not in a good way. Ruined way too many games.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Glad to hear it! 
About rolling earthquake: if you add any red wrath, add it. There's really nothing that matches it's flexibility and consistency.
About rolling earthquake: if you add any red wrath, add it. There's really nothing that matches it's flexibility and consistency.
For the record, there is nothing wrong with proxying the expensive staples you don't have the cash to invest in yet, or even more stuff than that. I've killed my printer cartridge more than once because I was proxying stuff that I was testing before I wanted to buy it. This will save you a ton of money in the long run, since I can't tell you how many times I got really excited about adding an archetype to my cube and then saw it fall apart in actual play. Just ask me about the time I bought a bunch of merfolk staples because I thought they would somehow make blue aggro work in my cube.
Random thoughts as I scroll through your list. Keep in mind this is all just personal taste, 'cause this is going to get long and nitpicky:
- White looks pretty decent, though I'm not a fan of Myth Realized.
- Let us know how Reconnaissance works out. That's a weird one.
- I don't like Viral Drake. As far as I can tell, it's the only infect creature in the list, and that bugs me. Thrummingbird is a way better proliferate enabler that's not literally poisonous.
- I'm not a fan of 6 Brainstorms, either. They take a while to resolve, and they're too close to ancestral recall with fetches. I understand you're trying to make the early turns matter with blue, but I kinda don't like that many cantrips in general. They make blue games too consistent and samey. I'd suggest cutting down to a 2/2 split on Ponder/Preordain.
- Rune Snag ain't gonna do shit if you primarily draft with 2 people. That's the kind of synergy that's only going to show up in a bigger draft.
- Why Domestication and Control Magic? If you like that effect (though I'd be careful about being too liberal with it), why not just just 2 of one or the other?
- I don't like the Gravecrawler package. You have almost no other zombies to support them. Once again, if you're mostly just gonna draft with 2 people, you're mostly not going to see multiples. I'd just cut the crawlers and go all in on Bloodsoaked Champion instead.
- Liliana of the Veil is way more suited to this environment than Vess. She's probably my favorite walker to play with after Chandra, Pyromaster, too. Her stock is only going to go up. Well worth the investment now, or proxy away.
- Sidisi, Undead Vizier is better at Liliana Vess's job anyway.
- I didn't even know Ghastly Demise existed. That's a neat card.
- I tried Altac Bloodseeker and it didn't work out. Your environment may find it different, but I just found the card underwhelming. Easy cut.
- Prodigal Pyromancer? Why not Cunning Sparkmage?
- Mob Rule suuuuuuuuuuuucks. It's not gonna do anything in this environment.
- Elvish Archers is an interesting choice. I'm not sure if I approve that it does something green normally doesn't get, or if it's just kind of a boring weak card on its own. Let us know how it works out.
- Predator Ooze is kind of ambitious, mana-wise.
- Yasova Dragonclaw is another card I tested and didn't like. She just didn't do enough in my cube, and your cube is higher powered than mine.
- Mwonvuli Acid Moss? Really? Nah.
- Someone else on the Primeval Bounty train. High five.
- I'd cut a fetch from each guild and run a temple instead, but I'm a crazy person who isn't really a big fan of fetches in general (I feel like if the mana is too good it spoils one of the core tensions of Magic, which is just how greedy to get with your mana base) so take my advice with a grain of salt, as it runs counter to a lot of Riptide conventional wisdom.
- The hell is Sygg, River Guide doing here?
- Same question for Wydwen and Tymaret. They are nowhere close to powerful enough to be worth the investment in two colors in this environment. I guarantee they're going to just sit in sideboards every time.
- Lightning Helix and Warleader's Helix? Why not two of one or the other?
- Only Fire Diamond? Not sure if I agree with that. Same with the talismans. There's gotta be a better way to enable Wildfire than that.
- <3 Jinxed Idol. I should put that in my cube.
- Ring of Valkas is an interesting choice. Should probably just be Swiftfoot Boots but it's worth testing.
- I kind of hate Sensei's Divining Top. There's a reason it's banned in Modern and it's not for power level reasons. The card is just obnoxious to play with.
- Oh hey, there's a third Birthing Pod in your artifact section.
- Deathrender is going to be too slow for this environment.
- I kind of hate conspiracies, but again that's just me. You've probably picked the least obnoxious ones to be fair.
Anyway, no cube survives first contact with its players, so test away and let us know how it goes!
Random thoughts as I scroll through your list. Keep in mind this is all just personal taste, 'cause this is going to get long and nitpicky:
- White looks pretty decent, though I'm not a fan of Myth Realized.
- Let us know how Reconnaissance works out. That's a weird one.
- I don't like Viral Drake. As far as I can tell, it's the only infect creature in the list, and that bugs me. Thrummingbird is a way better proliferate enabler that's not literally poisonous.
- I'm not a fan of 6 Brainstorms, either. They take a while to resolve, and they're too close to ancestral recall with fetches. I understand you're trying to make the early turns matter with blue, but I kinda don't like that many cantrips in general. They make blue games too consistent and samey. I'd suggest cutting down to a 2/2 split on Ponder/Preordain.
- Rune Snag ain't gonna do shit if you primarily draft with 2 people. That's the kind of synergy that's only going to show up in a bigger draft.
- Why Domestication and Control Magic? If you like that effect (though I'd be careful about being too liberal with it), why not just just 2 of one or the other?
- I don't like the Gravecrawler package. You have almost no other zombies to support them. Once again, if you're mostly just gonna draft with 2 people, you're mostly not going to see multiples. I'd just cut the crawlers and go all in on Bloodsoaked Champion instead.
- Liliana of the Veil is way more suited to this environment than Vess. She's probably my favorite walker to play with after Chandra, Pyromaster, too. Her stock is only going to go up. Well worth the investment now, or proxy away.
- Sidisi, Undead Vizier is better at Liliana Vess's job anyway.
- I didn't even know Ghastly Demise existed. That's a neat card.
- I tried Altac Bloodseeker and it didn't work out. Your environment may find it different, but I just found the card underwhelming. Easy cut.
- Prodigal Pyromancer? Why not Cunning Sparkmage?
- Mob Rule suuuuuuuuuuuucks. It's not gonna do anything in this environment.
- Elvish Archers is an interesting choice. I'm not sure if I approve that it does something green normally doesn't get, or if it's just kind of a boring weak card on its own. Let us know how it works out.
- Predator Ooze is kind of ambitious, mana-wise.
- Yasova Dragonclaw is another card I tested and didn't like. She just didn't do enough in my cube, and your cube is higher powered than mine.
- Mwonvuli Acid Moss? Really? Nah.
- Someone else on the Primeval Bounty train. High five.
- I'd cut a fetch from each guild and run a temple instead, but I'm a crazy person who isn't really a big fan of fetches in general (I feel like if the mana is too good it spoils one of the core tensions of Magic, which is just how greedy to get with your mana base) so take my advice with a grain of salt, as it runs counter to a lot of Riptide conventional wisdom.
- The hell is Sygg, River Guide doing here?
- Same question for Wydwen and Tymaret. They are nowhere close to powerful enough to be worth the investment in two colors in this environment. I guarantee they're going to just sit in sideboards every time.
- Lightning Helix and Warleader's Helix? Why not two of one or the other?
- Only Fire Diamond? Not sure if I agree with that. Same with the talismans. There's gotta be a better way to enable Wildfire than that.
- <3 Jinxed Idol. I should put that in my cube.
- Ring of Valkas is an interesting choice. Should probably just be Swiftfoot Boots but it's worth testing.
- I kind of hate Sensei's Divining Top. There's a reason it's banned in Modern and it's not for power level reasons. The card is just obnoxious to play with.
- Oh hey, there's a third Birthing Pod in your artifact section.
- Deathrender is going to be too slow for this environment.
- I kind of hate conspiracies, but again that's just me. You've probably picked the least obnoxious ones to be fair.
Anyway, no cube survives first contact with its players, so test away and let us know how it goes!
I'm only a quarter of the way into reading your initial post, but before you go spend a bunch of money and/or make a bunch of proxies, I'm gonna go out and recommend double fetch, triple shock, rather than the other way around! The reason is that fetches are fairly flexible, in that your UW deck doesn't care so much whether it gets a Flooded Strand, Polluted Delta, or Arid Mesa, but it cares very much about getting a Hallowed Fountain, and preferably even two. With a cube that's 480 cards, and primarily meant to be drafted in small groups, you want to maximize your chances of one or more correct shocklands showing up in your pool of cards, because there's nothing worse than prepping your manabase by picking five fetches and then not having the right dual show up. As someone who went from double fetch, double shock in a 360 list that's drafted by an average of six players each occasion, this situation happened more often than I expected, and was immensely frustrating. Since moving to two fetches and three shocks, at the recommendation of some of the folks smarter than me here, I've been pleased as punch.
Sorry for this breathless reply, but I saw somewhere in your post that you're gonna order cards tonight, so I need to type this up before you put in that order. oh god oh god i need to hit send on this right now
Sorry for this breathless reply, but I saw somewhere in your post that you're gonna order cards tonight, so I need to type this up before you put in that order. oh god oh god i need to hit send on this right now
Dom Harvey
Contributor
If you want the mana rocks for just ramp and not fixing, how about:
Ok, I'm all caught up! I really like the selective singleton-breaking you've done here. I think most people feel that cube isn't really "cube" unless it's mostly singleton, and carefully curating the selection of cards to double and triple up on is what gives a particular format its texture. With that said, I'll agree with Peter that the four Gravecrawlers seem a bit egregious, especially in light of the fact that you're already sporting multiple Bloodghasts and Bloodsoaked Champions (!). I think the trend recently, at least on here, has been to support one tribe and one tribe only in cube - humans. Luckily, multiple Bloodsoaked Champions - I'd recommend three - go really well with those Champions of the Parish in white!
I'm gonna also agree with Peter - and shhh, don't let CML know I said this - but Rune Snags are pretty awful. I'm the only other guy on this forum that ran them, and even with five (!) in a 360, they weren't worth the time nor the space. Luckily, there's no shortage of middling two mana alternatives in blue! Might I suggest Deprive, Disdainful Stroke, Logic Knot, and yet another Condescend?
Multiple Swiftspears seems like a great idea - why didn't I think of that earlier?! - to go along with the multiple Young Pyromancers. Are you sure you don't want even a single Delver of Secrets, to go in this deck that's almost always UR?
If you're already running so many shocks and fetches, and even a single Utopia Sprawl, it seems criminal not to include Arbor Elf over some of the other mana dorks. You could do what I do, and run only Arbor Elves!
Sorry to outright contradict Chris, but I hate Everflowing Chalice, feel that Mind Stone is merely ok, and love Coldsteel Heart. The only thing better than a mana rock is a mana rock that fixes, which Coldsteel Heart does, and Chalice only wishes it could. If there's a mana rock to double up on, I'd go with Prismatic Lens - it's the safest choice, and one that lets players fix, in a pinch. You're also missing the best mana rock, one that's currently showing its power in Modern Masters 2015 - Wayfarer's Bauble! Not great in Wildfire decks, obviously, but fantastic for control in general.
Not to shit all over Jason's themes (well, okay, you got me - I'm happy to shit all over them, actually), but with so few persist and undying creatures in your cube, Birthing Pod might well be dead on arrival. I know that it's never done jack over here, but that's because I don't run double Finks and double Shriekmaw. It might be worth a try in your environment, but you probably want to keep a critical eye on these, and swap 'em if they don't pan out. If you're looking for a green theme, it might be better to double up on, say, Eidolon of Blossoms, or perhaps try to run a devotion package. Or both!
Finally, I think it's worth shelling out for that Dark Confidant. I have no idea how much it goes for anymore, but it's a thrilling card that gives drafters a strong pull into black aggro like no other, and ties the whole archetype together. Plus, nothing better than taking nine to the face off a flipped Gurmag Angler!
I'm gonna also agree with Peter - and shhh, don't let CML know I said this - but Rune Snags are pretty awful. I'm the only other guy on this forum that ran them, and even with five (!) in a 360, they weren't worth the time nor the space. Luckily, there's no shortage of middling two mana alternatives in blue! Might I suggest Deprive, Disdainful Stroke, Logic Knot, and yet another Condescend?
Multiple Swiftspears seems like a great idea - why didn't I think of that earlier?! - to go along with the multiple Young Pyromancers. Are you sure you don't want even a single Delver of Secrets, to go in this deck that's almost always UR?
If you're already running so many shocks and fetches, and even a single Utopia Sprawl, it seems criminal not to include Arbor Elf over some of the other mana dorks. You could do what I do, and run only Arbor Elves!
Sorry to outright contradict Chris, but I hate Everflowing Chalice, feel that Mind Stone is merely ok, and love Coldsteel Heart. The only thing better than a mana rock is a mana rock that fixes, which Coldsteel Heart does, and Chalice only wishes it could. If there's a mana rock to double up on, I'd go with Prismatic Lens - it's the safest choice, and one that lets players fix, in a pinch. You're also missing the best mana rock, one that's currently showing its power in Modern Masters 2015 - Wayfarer's Bauble! Not great in Wildfire decks, obviously, but fantastic for control in general.
Not to shit all over Jason's themes (well, okay, you got me - I'm happy to shit all over them, actually), but with so few persist and undying creatures in your cube, Birthing Pod might well be dead on arrival. I know that it's never done jack over here, but that's because I don't run double Finks and double Shriekmaw. It might be worth a try in your environment, but you probably want to keep a critical eye on these, and swap 'em if they don't pan out. If you're looking for a green theme, it might be better to double up on, say, Eidolon of Blossoms, or perhaps try to run a devotion package. Or both!
Finally, I think it's worth shelling out for that Dark Confidant. I have no idea how much it goes for anymore, but it's a thrilling card that gives drafters a strong pull into black aggro like no other, and ties the whole archetype together. Plus, nothing better than taking nine to the face off a flipped Gurmag Angler!
You mention that this cube is to be drafted primarily between 2 players, but HOW is it going to be drafted? Quilt? Grid? Modified version of Tenchester? All these methods show you different amounts of cards so it would be nice to know to be able to see how easy it would be to hit cards of a specific archetype (this sentence could be worded way better, but it gets the jist across).
I have to agree with Eric on the double fetch, triple shock. Did a couple of drafts and ended up with 5 fetches and 2 shocks and always wished they were the other way around.
In one of my drafts I got double rune snag and still didn't want to play them. They just feel so average and when you draft with two people and would only ever see 1 I can't imagine how sad you would feel to run them.
There are some weird cards too...
Geralf's Mindcrusher, Mesmeric Orb, Riddlekeeper: Is mill a thing? These (plus Mindshrieker and Altar of Dementia) are the only cards I can see that seem to push the theme and 5/480 is not a percentage that seems draftable. I know these are in your description of blue and how it plays but it just doesn't seem enough and pulls people in the wrong direction.
Reconnaissance, Viral Drake, Mwonvuli Acid Moss, Sygg, River Guide: All cards Peter has mentioned above. These seem out of place or appearing as a archetype that doesn't really exist. Should probably be replaced in my opinion.
Beguiler of Wills: Is there anyway that this works? I love this card but power level seems a bit high and the creature count in blue is low enough that it never really does what you would like out of a 5-drop.
Terror: Dies to Doom Blade?
Mob Rule, Prodigal Pyromancer: Other cards that Peter pointed out as being weak. Wildfire is good enough as the Red 6-drop. Prodigal should be Cunning Sparkmage if you want a pinger.
Pillar of Flame: Is the necessary as a double up? Do you really not want things to go to the 'yard?
Dosan the Falling Leaf: Because screw you blue.
Elder of Laurels, Drove of Elves: I didn't know green had a swarm theme until I read your description. I guess it makes the mana dorks relevant after you have nothing more to ramp into. But then again wouldn't you just more things to ramp into than these guys that are terrible without the mana dudes in the lategame?
Lantern of Insight: I definitely need your insight on this one, I got nothing.
That was said in the draft subgames forum as well. Is this some sort of joke I don't get? As you should only be taking 7 :\
I have to agree with Eric on the double fetch, triple shock. Did a couple of drafts and ended up with 5 fetches and 2 shocks and always wished they were the other way around.
In one of my drafts I got double rune snag and still didn't want to play them. They just feel so average and when you draft with two people and would only ever see 1 I can't imagine how sad you would feel to run them.
There are some weird cards too...
Geralf's Mindcrusher, Mesmeric Orb, Riddlekeeper: Is mill a thing? These (plus Mindshrieker and Altar of Dementia) are the only cards I can see that seem to push the theme and 5/480 is not a percentage that seems draftable. I know these are in your description of blue and how it plays but it just doesn't seem enough and pulls people in the wrong direction.
Reconnaissance, Viral Drake, Mwonvuli Acid Moss, Sygg, River Guide: All cards Peter has mentioned above. These seem out of place or appearing as a archetype that doesn't really exist. Should probably be replaced in my opinion.
Beguiler of Wills: Is there anyway that this works? I love this card but power level seems a bit high and the creature count in blue is low enough that it never really does what you would like out of a 5-drop.
Terror: Dies to Doom Blade?
Mob Rule, Prodigal Pyromancer: Other cards that Peter pointed out as being weak. Wildfire is good enough as the Red 6-drop. Prodigal should be Cunning Sparkmage if you want a pinger.
Pillar of Flame: Is the necessary as a double up? Do you really not want things to go to the 'yard?
Dosan the Falling Leaf: Because screw you blue.
Elder of Laurels, Drove of Elves: I didn't know green had a swarm theme until I read your description. I guess it makes the mana dorks relevant after you have nothing more to ramp into. But then again wouldn't you just more things to ramp into than these guys that are terrible without the mana dudes in the lategame?
Lantern of Insight: I definitely need your insight on this one, I got nothing.
That was said in the draft subgames forum as well. Is this some sort of joke I don't get? As you should only be taking 7 :\
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
The Truth seems to be a killer in Modern Masters 2015 limited.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
A limited Resources cult
Wait, is someone talking mess about Yasova Dragonclaw? She's been possibly the best performing Gruul card in my cube, and is everything I ever wanted Sarkhan Vol to be. I actually think most of the Gruul staples, like Bloodbraid Elf and Huntmaster of the Fells, are overrated in cube, but Yasova is where every green aggro deck wants to be!
If you really want to try out the package of Gravecrawlers, don't let a couple of us naysayers stop you! It was fun for a few months when I had a full playset of them in there, but I only worry that with 14 zombies total, there won't be a lot of recasting going on. But if your heart is set on these little guys, I say play 'em, and stuff the cube with even more zombies so that they can be successful!
Yeah, you've picked up that there's a bit - okay, maybe a lot - of an anti-control bias around here, of which I have to raise my hand as a guilty party. The trick to boosting control decks has always been to give them tools that won't just be pilfered by the good-stuff, all-value midrange decks, which is a challenge. But the suite of mana rocks goes a long way towards ensuring control's viablility - there's nothing a control deck wants to pick up more than a couple of signets! Though, to get back to the card that started this discussion - why Dosan the Falling Leaf and not Grand Abolisher... or, daresay, even Dragonlord Dromoka?
If you really want to try out the package of Gravecrawlers, don't let a couple of us naysayers stop you! It was fun for a few months when I had a full playset of them in there, but I only worry that with 14 zombies total, there won't be a lot of recasting going on. But if your heart is set on these little guys, I say play 'em, and stuff the cube with even more zombies so that they can be successful!
Yeah, you've picked up that there's a bit - okay, maybe a lot - of an anti-control bias around here, of which I have to raise my hand as a guilty party. The trick to boosting control decks has always been to give them tools that won't just be pilfered by the good-stuff, all-value midrange decks, which is a challenge. But the suite of mana rocks goes a long way towards ensuring control's viablility - there's nothing a control deck wants to pick up more than a couple of signets! Though, to get back to the card that started this discussion - why Dosan the Falling Leaf and not Grand Abolisher... or, daresay, even Dragonlord Dromoka?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I mean they do recast off eachother...
Drafted a deck I like, though I haven't bothered building it. I always forget, cubetutor never logs me in when I visit. Also I drafted this in like 5 minutes, so it's not thoroughly thought through. Needs more creatures.
One comment: Invisible Stalker is probably not a fun card. I only have one memory of it, and that's losing to it with a Butcher's Cleaver. Seriously, what can you do about that?
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One comment: Invisible Stalker is probably not a fun card. I only have one memory of it, and that's losing to it with a Butcher's Cleaver. Seriously, what can you do about that?
Orzhov Aggro from CubeTutor.com
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Drafted aristocrats without peeking at the spoiler tags, but it's a sweet combination. In my book, the white and the black champion do nutty things together in the same deck with a sac outlet. I did notice a real huge lack of lands that tap for multiple colors, and you're actually just running 2 in each color. This is at 467 cards! I'd definitely try to see if I can add make room for maybe temples or the checklands if I were you! Otherwise I really like the cards, I'm probably going to take some notes on cards I might add to my own cube.
Jeskai Kiki-Jiki from CubeTutor.com
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This looks like a deck I'd like to pilot honestly!
Oh, oops, I didn't mean the actual signets with my throwaway comment there - I was just invoking the colloquial term that's sometimes used to refer to two-mana, colourless mana rocks. I think you should definitely continue your trajectory with Mind Stones, Prismatic Lens, and the like - in my opinion, it's much better to leave the mana rocks open ended, so that someone can draft them early and leave their deck's exact colour combination as an exercise to be figured out later!
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
The Truth? Are you inviting me to a Golgari cult? ?_?
I do like Lumberknot. Might be a better candidate over Drove of Elves for "hexproof thing to swing big through the red zone", but I find the allure of a green board reward card so tempting. Thanks for the suggestions!
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/limited-information/truth-ben-stark-2015-06-10
The Truth!
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
In value storm, I found the actual storm cards to be the worse part. I found horizontal and vertical growth prowess style creatures to be better and more flexible. The only storm card I still run is empty, and that is probably a mistake.
I like mana reduction creatures and I think you would be better off with nightscape familiars than narrow cards like priest of urabrask. I like burning tree, but I don't think it fits very well as a storm enabler in any sense. I would like to see some more lands in the ULD, besides nykthos, that you can abuse with untap effects, as that goes a long way towards making turnabout feel more like a highpower ramp spell than a somewhat narrow ramp spell.
Past in flames is probably too mana intensive without bigger mana plays: red rituals to flashback, or big mana generating lands to untap, but I can see why you want to try it. Will be interested to hear what you think of goggles.
Blistercoil weird is very bad though.
I like mana reduction creatures and I think you would be better off with nightscape familiars than narrow cards like priest of urabrask. I like burning tree, but I don't think it fits very well as a storm enabler in any sense. I would like to see some more lands in the ULD, besides nykthos, that you can abuse with untap effects, as that goes a long way towards making turnabout feel more like a highpower ramp spell than a somewhat narrow ramp spell.
Past in flames is probably too mana intensive without bigger mana plays: red rituals to flashback, or big mana generating lands to untap, but I can see why you want to try it. Will be interested to hear what you think of goggles.
Blistercoil weird is very bad though.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I think you'll probably right not to run bouncelands, but there are some high power varients. I didn't really think through the logistics of it, but:
Obviously, lots of conditions to be placed on all of these for them to be cubeable. Crypt is the most clunky, cloudpost wants multi-picks, cradle probably busted, academy is very format sensitive but could work, while coffers requires maybe too much of a black commitment. If you could find a way though to add say, maybe, two more high impact land targets in the ULD I think it would go a long ways towards really making value storm a contender.
If you can run some rituals (and I understand why you would be hesistent, I'm not excited about giving space to them either) you also have the play of red rit with goggles to gush out some mana.
Another possibility is to ignore land untapping completly, but instead run the invasion sac. lands as a source of burst mana.
Nightscape familiar is quite good, and I've even ran him in somewhat more grindy R/B aggro decks before, just because those decks sometimes bottleneck with 2cc spells, and there is a huge sequencing advantage to having him in play. The regeneration and mana reduction is very good in every other deck running black and either red or blue. I would give him a whirl and see what you think.
Satry is good, but if you are really abusing that effect, I think magus of the candelabra is much better. Generator servant was rather disappointing over here, but maybe ask in the main forum? I know we've discussed it before, and I think it was getting mixed reviews.
Staggershock is fine; I don't think you need to run it though.
Obviously, lots of conditions to be placed on all of these for them to be cubeable. Crypt is the most clunky, cloudpost wants multi-picks, cradle probably busted, academy is very format sensitive but could work, while coffers requires maybe too much of a black commitment. If you could find a way though to add say, maybe, two more high impact land targets in the ULD I think it would go a long ways towards really making value storm a contender.
If you can run some rituals (and I understand why you would be hesistent, I'm not excited about giving space to them either) you also have the play of red rit with goggles to gush out some mana.
Another possibility is to ignore land untapping completly, but instead run the invasion sac. lands as a source of burst mana.
Nightscape familiar is quite good, and I've even ran him in somewhat more grindy R/B aggro decks before, just because those decks sometimes bottleneck with 2cc spells, and there is a huge sequencing advantage to having him in play. The regeneration and mana reduction is very good in every other deck running black and either red or blue. I would give him a whirl and see what you think.
Satry is good, but if you are really abusing that effect, I think magus of the candelabra is much better. Generator servant was rather disappointing over here, but maybe ask in the main forum? I know we've discussed it before, and I think it was getting mixed reviews.
Staggershock is fine; I don't think you need to run it though.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Double Stroke on Bonfire: For when you need to make absolutely sure your opponent never wants to play magic again
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Though I will say you seem to have done a decent job making creature removal not dead against the storm deck, between the guttersnipe, electromancer and swiftspear.
I'll attest to snap being sweet though. I keep on going back and forth on weather I like it or vapor snag more (Though clearly snap is better with storm present)
I'll attest to snap being sweet though. I keep on going back and forth on weather I like it or vapor snag more (Though clearly snap is better with storm present)