I don't know if any of you guys were hoping BFZ would give us something kind of like Inquisition of Kozilek - cheap, powerful discard that only hits some cards - but instead we get something that costs two mana and really wants to cost one. It's almost as recurrent a theme as 'gold medieval set'!
Discard 'needs' to be one mana because you're trading evenly on cards and can't afford to spend a ton of resources just to deny your opponent an option they might not even have used. It also needs to be one mana because it's more fun and interesting there. I personally like Inquisition of Kozilek to push my CMC3 theme but Thoughtseize is still a great card that people should run, in multiples if they want to. I'm not huge on it hitting everything (I really like the times you IOK, see Elspeth, and know you have to race this waiting threat, or Despise and start playing around Mana Leak) but it's a necessary alternative to other selective discard, which is really bad to play or include in your Cube.
Here's our options:
(some people have had a lot of success sharpie-ing these to cost instead. they're not really that great at two mana unforch)
(the currently-missing card is the new Transgress the Mind. strongarm tactics needs a heavy graveyard theme for black but might, given one and a mana-cost haircut, really be SOME PIG)
at higher costs there starts to be enough support for a real discard suite, but unfortunately it all costs too much to be solid in faster cubes. At least, I've usually thought so? I've been playing Persecute in my Modern sideboard though (<3 grillo, thx for the tip) and I've done some really absurd things with it* - and Modern is by no means a slow format! I haven't played all of these but I've played most of them, it's just a matter of picking and choosing a couple at different points in your environment i think. lower-costed discard can bide time until you drop your 'big guns' in a faster format? maybe add more cantrips and creature cantrips if you want a higher discard presence.
*"that's a card? wow, okay, dude" (discards six green cards and is left holding a RTR Dispel)
here's a list across a couple power levels:
now obviously most of these suck, especially the five-mana ones. (do they, though???)
Have you tried any custom alternatives, like Addle or a Blackmail-style Cabal Therapy that says 'name a colour'? (this was 'too good' here but that may have just been whining. Thoughtseize also got whines.)
Am I just wrong for not wanting to give my players Thoughtseize? I like that four-drops are 'immune' to some forms of disruption in my environment but it's the least frustrating of the discard spells for the caster, especially in a Cube context. (the number of nominally-spell creatures and nominally-creature spells we run makes Duress and Despise situationally worse imo)
Is 3x discard spells 'enough' for most people in a 360? How big of a part of black's colour pie do we want this to be? I think it's been underserved in Cube before but don't want to over-correct and throw things outta whack.
I like being able to apply pressure across all zones and make any of them matter in different ways throughout games, inspired by playing a buncha Netrunner recently. So elegant! Persecute hasn't shown up here yet but i think it's only a matter of time before I draft it and try to show people what I mean it to do. (RBM you draft more often than I do, have you drafted it yet? how was it?)
How have you made discard matter in your own Cube? This is another one of those areas where I think a lot of people have tried a lot of different things, but a discussion might be fruitful.
Discard 'needs' to be one mana because you're trading evenly on cards and can't afford to spend a ton of resources just to deny your opponent an option they might not even have used. It also needs to be one mana because it's more fun and interesting there. I personally like Inquisition of Kozilek to push my CMC3 theme but Thoughtseize is still a great card that people should run, in multiples if they want to. I'm not huge on it hitting everything (I really like the times you IOK, see Elspeth, and know you have to race this waiting threat, or Despise and start playing around Mana Leak) but it's a necessary alternative to other selective discard, which is really bad to play or include in your Cube.
Here's our options:
(some people have had a lot of success sharpie-ing these to cost instead. they're not really that great at two mana unforch)
(the currently-missing card is the new Transgress the Mind. strongarm tactics needs a heavy graveyard theme for black but might, given one and a mana-cost haircut, really be SOME PIG)
at higher costs there starts to be enough support for a real discard suite, but unfortunately it all costs too much to be solid in faster cubes. At least, I've usually thought so? I've been playing Persecute in my Modern sideboard though (<3 grillo, thx for the tip) and I've done some really absurd things with it* - and Modern is by no means a slow format! I haven't played all of these but I've played most of them, it's just a matter of picking and choosing a couple at different points in your environment i think. lower-costed discard can bide time until you drop your 'big guns' in a faster format? maybe add more cantrips and creature cantrips if you want a higher discard presence.
*"that's a card? wow, okay, dude" (discards six green cards and is left holding a RTR Dispel)
here's a list across a couple power levels:
now obviously most of these suck, especially the five-mana ones. (do they, though???)
Have you tried any custom alternatives, like Addle or a Blackmail-style Cabal Therapy that says 'name a colour'? (this was 'too good' here but that may have just been whining. Thoughtseize also got whines.)
Am I just wrong for not wanting to give my players Thoughtseize? I like that four-drops are 'immune' to some forms of disruption in my environment but it's the least frustrating of the discard spells for the caster, especially in a Cube context. (the number of nominally-spell creatures and nominally-creature spells we run makes Duress and Despise situationally worse imo)
Is 3x discard spells 'enough' for most people in a 360? How big of a part of black's colour pie do we want this to be? I think it's been underserved in Cube before but don't want to over-correct and throw things outta whack.
I like being able to apply pressure across all zones and make any of them matter in different ways throughout games, inspired by playing a buncha Netrunner recently. So elegant! Persecute hasn't shown up here yet but i think it's only a matter of time before I draft it and try to show people what I mean it to do. (RBM you draft more often than I do, have you drafted it yet? how was it?)
How have you made discard matter in your own Cube? This is another one of those areas where I think a lot of people have tried a lot of different things, but a discussion might be fruitful.