Let's hash it peeps. Standard cube setting.
Broken (bannable)
Top
High
Mid
Low
Bottom
Early nominee for baroque-en:
Bottom:
Broken (bannable)
Top
High
Mid
Low
Bottom
Early nominee for baroque-en:
Bottom:
Card/Deck Shit Thread: Planeswalker Tier List
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
- Start date
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
These are the planeswalkers in my cube, except for Ajani Steadfast, and how I would rate them.
Broken (would always first pick, and draft so I could support this, and my opponents would weep rivers of salty sadness if I drew it)
None
Top (would almost always first pick)
High (could first pick, but would pick several non-planeswalkers over it)
Mid (would never first pick, but always play if my deck could support them)
Low (would never first pick, and play some of the time if picked)
None
Bottom (would wheel until the end of times and give me bonus points if I managed to win a game with this on the battlefield)
None
Edit: I see I had one tier too many. Well, I guess I would first pick Elspeth most of the time as well...
Broken (would always first pick, and draft so I could support this, and my opponents would weep rivers of salty sadness if I drew it)
None
Top (would almost always first pick)
High (could first pick, but would pick several non-planeswalkers over it)
Mid (would never first pick, but always play if my deck could support them)
Low (would never first pick, and play some of the time if picked)
None
Bottom (would wheel until the end of times and give me bonus points if I managed to win a game with this on the battlefield)
None
Edit: I see I had one tier too many. Well, I guess I would first pick Elspeth most of the time as well...
Did you really just play birds into that tier:
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Which 4/x with haste are you going to play, oh the planeswalker one tier:
koth of the hammer
I'm ajani vengeant I promise guys tier:
Ral Zarek
Black/white huh? What would you play black/white for ohshit tier
Sorin, lord of innistrad
Planeswalkers that always eat my lunch but do nothing for me:
ALL OF THEM
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Which 4/x with haste are you going to play, oh the planeswalker one tier:
koth of the hammer
I'm ajani vengeant I promise guys tier:
Ral Zarek
Black/white huh? What would you play black/white for ohshit tier
Sorin, lord of innistrad
Planeswalkers that always eat my lunch but do nothing for me:
ALL OF THEM
Laz
Developer
I don't know if this is a very useful thread. Planeswalkers will play very differently in different cubes, as that different cube environment will affect choice of which Planeswalkers to include.
I probably run too many Planeswalkers, and my inclusions are mostly based upon providing interesting choices usually in play, but sometimes in drafting. I will only put the planewalkers I run in the list below.
Broken:
None really occupy this slot at the moment, thankfully.
Top Tier: (Would probably always first pick, and would pull me into the colours)
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas would also be first pick-able and pull me into the colours if I were feeling like a wild and crazy evening.
Garruk is so incredibly solid, and does all of the great things that green wants (except perhaps self-mill, but I feel this is edge-case). Koth hits really hard, plays awesome with Wildfire, and the emblem often just wins the game. Interestingly enough, all three of these walkers legitimately have 3 abilities, as their ultimates are very obtainable, as opposed to the two abilities that I consider most other walkers to have.
High up there: (Would definitely consider first picking)
I feel my description is a little inadequate, since I always get excited when I see a planeswalker in a pack, and think about grabbing it. These four are however genuinely very tempting cards that I can't just blame 'planeswalker-blindness' for picking. Liliana is insane, but takes a certain type of deck to work really well in, hence it goes here and not above. If I see a Liliana pack one, I am probably going to take it and try to build that grindy value deck, but I don't feel bad about passing it later in the draft, even if I am in Black if I am not playing that kind of grindy game. Chandra Pyromaster is the best Chandra yet. Domri has continued to impress me, but like Liliana, means you have to have a certain type of deck.
Middle of the road:
Strong cards, but there are plenty of cards which are stronger than them in my cube. It seems odd to have Jace this low, but he is so dependant upon having the board already under control given how fast my aggro decks are. Like most of these cards, he excels in certain situations/decks.
Low:
Not sure how Nicol Bolas snuck in... He is sneaky like that.
Jury still out:
Still have no idea how good he is yet. Recent addition.
I probably run too many Planeswalkers, and my inclusions are mostly based upon providing interesting choices usually in play, but sometimes in drafting. I will only put the planewalkers I run in the list below.
Broken:
None really occupy this slot at the moment, thankfully.
Top Tier: (Would probably always first pick, and would pull me into the colours)
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas would also be first pick-able and pull me into the colours if I were feeling like a wild and crazy evening.
Garruk is so incredibly solid, and does all of the great things that green wants (except perhaps self-mill, but I feel this is edge-case). Koth hits really hard, plays awesome with Wildfire, and the emblem often just wins the game. Interestingly enough, all three of these walkers legitimately have 3 abilities, as their ultimates are very obtainable, as opposed to the two abilities that I consider most other walkers to have.
High up there: (Would definitely consider first picking)
I feel my description is a little inadequate, since I always get excited when I see a planeswalker in a pack, and think about grabbing it. These four are however genuinely very tempting cards that I can't just blame 'planeswalker-blindness' for picking. Liliana is insane, but takes a certain type of deck to work really well in, hence it goes here and not above. If I see a Liliana pack one, I am probably going to take it and try to build that grindy value deck, but I don't feel bad about passing it later in the draft, even if I am in Black if I am not playing that kind of grindy game. Chandra Pyromaster is the best Chandra yet. Domri has continued to impress me, but like Liliana, means you have to have a certain type of deck.
Middle of the road:
Strong cards, but there are plenty of cards which are stronger than them in my cube. It seems odd to have Jace this low, but he is so dependant upon having the board already under control given how fast my aggro decks are. Like most of these cards, he excels in certain situations/decks.
Low:
Not sure how Nicol Bolas snuck in... He is sneaky like that.
Jury still out:
Still have no idea how good he is yet. Recent addition.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Karn, by the way, is near the top of Top for me. If he were any cheaper he would be broken, because games sure do feel like they're done and over when he hits the battlefield!
Oh dear.
What are we trying to suss out here? I feel like there's gotta be some way to avoid just talking at each other about how we rank walker texas rangers.
I always thought you wanted to have a plan or some rationale if you wanted to run more than 2 PW per colour (large cubes and multicolour sections not withstanding). I think there is an argument for including more in place of creatures, but PW have such a variety of effects on the game that they can't all be treated that way.
The problem with only including 1-2 is that some decks are getting more reliant on PWs to keep up these days. It's also a little weird and lame when they are too rare and people are going out of their way to play the ones they see and it's lame when your deck is just crappier than the other guy in your colour because he got the value generator (BOOSTER LIMITED).
I always thunked it was a weirdo thing that everyone was so wary of Elspeth:4. She does provide a lot of advantage for 4 mana but does that card see any play outside of cube? I also find it really weird first picking things that cost 6-7, but better players than me are always telling me what a "Unique-Effect" Karn is, so maybe I should be less of a big baby.
It's really too bad black doesn't have two planeswalkers worth cubing lol.
What are we trying to suss out here? I feel like there's gotta be some way to avoid just talking at each other about how we rank walker texas rangers.
I always thought you wanted to have a plan or some rationale if you wanted to run more than 2 PW per colour (large cubes and multicolour sections not withstanding). I think there is an argument for including more in place of creatures, but PW have such a variety of effects on the game that they can't all be treated that way.
The problem with only including 1-2 is that some decks are getting more reliant on PWs to keep up these days. It's also a little weird and lame when they are too rare and people are going out of their way to play the ones they see and it's lame when your deck is just crappier than the other guy in your colour because he got the value generator (BOOSTER LIMITED).
I always thunked it was a weirdo thing that everyone was so wary of Elspeth:4. She does provide a lot of advantage for 4 mana but does that card see any play outside of cube? I also find it really weird first picking things that cost 6-7, but better players than me are always telling me what a "Unique-Effect" Karn is, so maybe I should be less of a big baby.
It's really too bad black doesn't have two planeswalkers worth cubing lol.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Yeah, see the Print this Wizards thread though for some recent ideas for a custom black planeswalker 
Karn is expensive, but a beast when he comes down. I've seen unwinnable games turned around by Karn.
Karn is expensive, but a beast when he comes down. I've seen unwinnable games turned around by Karn.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
I'm constantly surprised by how little talk I hear about Sarkhan Vol. I get that, depending on what you're trying to do, it might not be the best 2RG card or even the best RG planeswalker, but the card is terrifying. If you're relying on a single creature to hold the fort, Sarkhan just ends the game; and a Sarkhan on an empty board means that any creature they draw is an immediate threat. It also has an incredible ultimate that it reaches faster than almost any other PW. It can't defend itself, but the same is true of Koth.
I clicked on this mainly because I'm interested in assessments for
Ajani is "fixed" Ajani Goldmane; his + plays kind of like a moving aura, you can put it on some not-so-great guy to make your opponent hesitate with their removal. If big lifegain bothers you / messes with your games too easily I'd skip him, but if you don't mind it / you want big life total swings then this ajani is pretty good. Doesn't kill your opponent out of nowhere as often as CoP.
Nissa is very powerful- a surprising number of spells / abilities say "nonland permanent" or some such, but at the same time getting your lands popped / bounced can be real frustrating. Second + makes midrange decks a lot less clunky- looking at a 5 and a 4 in your hand with 6 mana can actually be kinda sweet. Very easily randomly wins games with 4/4s though.
Jace is a little odd. He's not dissimilar to vraska (5 base loyalty, -3 nonland 'removal') costing 4 helps. + is a lot less "meh" than constructed when you have flashabck cards and reanimate spells. I think architect of thought is better, but this can make plays. Architect was shitting on my weenie themes too hard so I cut him, and this jace is a lot simpler than mind sculptor for my babby players.
Garruk is strong- removal abilities make your opponents hesitate to play out their hand in similar fashion to karn and nicol bolas, but he lacks the diversity of his fellow >6-CMC walkers. Not being able to smash _anything_ hurts him slightly, and his 3/3 beasts can be either fine or awful, as a regular garruk. If 7s are allowed in your cube give him a shot imo.
In practice he's just not as diverse or fun. For me, anyways.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Gideon Jura is top for me. It just does savage things to your opponent's board state and readily mops up your opponent after you've stabilized. I actually cut it from my cube because it does the same thing too well every time.
I'm with you on Karn. I think he's a smidgeon overrated in cube, even though he's eminently castable by any deck trying to do so. He's often a little lower impact than I'd expect for a seven-drop, as he's more of a value machine than an outright bomb, as most other sevens are. I think I've passed Karn more than any other person I know, though maybe a few of those times I should've snapped him up. Most times, though, I think I made the right call.
Elspeth is nutso in pretty much every cube I've seen. The amount of resources it takes to take her down is usually staggering. I guess you weren't around for that season, because she was in pretty much every white Standard deck that year - Boros landfall aggro, RWU Superfriends, and everything in between.
I agree that Ajani V is really strong. Really scary to see it come down on the other side of the table. This is another planeswalkers with three modes, and the threat of either double Helix or eventual Armageddon is no small potatoes.
JTMS is legitimately very strong. He's at his worst against hyper-aggressive decks but if the rest of your deck keeps you alive he's still one of the best finishers. Jace is pretty good in any situation where you are remotely able to win the game still.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant is an absolute beating for creature strategies. High starting loyalty + making blockers while ticking up, hard to just ignore since she can randomly kill you out of nowhere with the pump ability, and her ult more or less crushes the ability to fight on the ground. Also nigh-impossible for any slower deck to kill without a vindicate/oring effect, and happens to kill said slow decks quite quickly. Another card that is great to draw at any stage that isn't you immediately losing.
I like Ajani Vengeant but I think he's a weaker card than the ones I put above him (other than Memory Adept but he's "broken" in a cube context, not necessarily stronger than JTMS etc.), in that I think you are more likely to win a game because you drafted, drew and resolved those planeswalkers than Ajani V. Part of it is being a gold card I guess.
For the most part I value the ability of a planeswalker to catch up in games you are losing, since most of them are great when you are ahead. The exceptions would be Liliana, Koth and Ajani CotP; Liliana and Ajani are 3 mana so they can come down early enough to cement a lead, and Liliana is so overpowering when you are ahead that it makes up for her being a bit lackluster when behind. Koth and Ajani also just kill your opponent out of nowhere, which is kind of like being good at playing catch-up.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant is an absolute beating for creature strategies. High starting loyalty + making blockers while ticking up, hard to just ignore since she can randomly kill you out of nowhere with the pump ability, and her ult more or less crushes the ability to fight on the ground. Also nigh-impossible for any slower deck to kill without a vindicate/oring effect, and happens to kill said slow decks quite quickly. Another card that is great to draw at any stage that isn't you immediately losing.
I like Ajani Vengeant but I think he's a weaker card than the ones I put above him (other than Memory Adept but he's "broken" in a cube context, not necessarily stronger than JTMS etc.), in that I think you are more likely to win a game because you drafted, drew and resolved those planeswalkers than Ajani V. Part of it is being a gold card I guess.
For the most part I value the ability of a planeswalker to catch up in games you are losing, since most of them are great when you are ahead. The exceptions would be Liliana, Koth and Ajani CotP; Liliana and Ajani are 3 mana so they can come down early enough to cement a lead, and Liliana is so overpowering when you are ahead that it makes up for her being a bit lackluster when behind. Koth and Ajani also just kill your opponent out of nowhere, which is kind of like being good at playing catch-up.
That's kind of why I find Karn Liberated a bit lackluster. He's pretty swell when you're ahead or there's a ground stall; but when you're losing, he tends to eat a guy and then get eaten himself. Not always where I want to be for seven mana.
If you aren't massively behind, the threat of him ulting is pretty real. Plays better with ramp obviously.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
He doesn't need to ult though. If Karn had only the first two abilities he would still be a beast.
Roughly ordered within group by power level.
Broken: (so dumb I don't include them)
Top: (likely first-picks)
High:
Mid:
Low:
Bottom:
Unknown:
That's all of them (I think). Subject to change and debate of course, this was just a quick attempt.
Broken: (so dumb I don't include them)
Top: (likely first-picks)
High:
Mid:
Low:
Bottom:
Unknown:
That's all of them (I think). Subject to change and debate of course, this was just a quick attempt.
CML
Contributor
Roughly ordered within group by power level.
Broken: (so dumb I don't include them)
Top: (likely first-picks)
High:
Mid:
Low:
Bottom:
Unknown:
That's all of them (I think). Subject to change and debate of course, this was just a quick attempt.
minor quibble: I also hate Gideon. otherwise this reflects my experience
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I will say 6 mana elspeth is real strong.
FlowerSunRain
Contributor
I've been seeing this sentiment. Is the general feeling? Maybe its because I don't run many 6+ drops, but she seems on par with the power level I want from a 6 drop and is more interesting then white's creature equivalents (Mostly Sun Titan), but she doesn't strike me as being disproportionately strong compared to said equivalent or the other 6s I run. I'd put her a peg below Grave Titan, in line with Sphinx of Jwar Isle and Crater Hellion and slightly above Necropolis Regent and Hydra Broodmaster.
If I ran them, I'd think she is firmly below the other Titans, Wurmcoil and probably better then Consecrated Sphinx, but I've never been high on him.