Card/Deck Single Card Spotlight

Rasmus Källqvist

Rasmus Källqvist

I saw it mentioned in the artifact thread from earlier. I think it could be cool if there's enough density of incidental artifact makers + utility artifacts. Best way to gauge it is probably to just whip together a list with it that a) has stuff to ramp into b) enough artifacts that helps you play magic that also works as fodder for the Ironworks.

Really neat that it can be sacrificed to itself!
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
So, this goes in a deck that plays a lot of artifacts that want to go to the graveyard and wants to ramp? I would think that's a pretty narrow cross section of most cubes, so it probably needs a pretty dedicated environment to shine.
 
Chris Taylor

Chris Taylor

Contributor

I just wanted to bring more attention to this card, it's been excellent for me.
I've got a custom variant of wrench mind that says "...discards 2 cards or a planeswalker" because nobody ever cared about whatever artifact they had in their hand, whereas a planeswalker you might actually hesitate about pitching to save on card advantage.

The way augur plays out is essentially the same thing, except it's "discard 2 or a removal spell", which has a similar weight to it, and it can even play drudge skeletons in a pinch. Great card to unearth, or combine with oversold cemetery

Only knock against it is that often people forget their upkeep, and you can't sacrifice this card if you've already drawn, which I've often fucked up.
 
psly4mne

psly4mne

Unless your cube is already very squadron-heavy, I think that would make your games feel too same-y. I'd be wary of any 4-of proactive card.
 
Velrun

Velrun

Rasmus Källqvist said:
Why 4-of? A 3-of would give the equivalence of a 60 deck playset.
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I give players 3 Squadron Hawk because all extra birds are free value. I decided on 3 for exactly the reasoning you have given.

However with cards like Accumulated Knowledge and Goblin Gathering the same logic does not apply because the extra copy is not free value. It still has to be drawn. Only having three in the deck seriously lowers the ceiling of a given card’s value output.

Do you feel 3 is more fair than 4?
 
Rasmus Källqvist

Rasmus Källqvist

Velrun said:
I give players 3 Squadron Hawk because all extra birds are free value. I decided on 3 for exactly the reasoning you have given.

However with cards like Accumulated Knowledge and Goblin Gathering the same logic does not apply because the extra copy is not free value. It still has to be drawn. Only having three in the deck seriously lowers the ceiling of a given card’s value output.

Do you feel 3 is more fair than 4?
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I'd just imagine that 3 is probably the likely amount you'd get in a retail draft? That and I like 3 as the "draft playset".
 
TrainmasterGT

TrainmasterGT

wahoopride said:
Is this playable in a mid-power cube?

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Well, this is definitely a mid-powered card. Not good enough to always win the game by itself, but able to under the correct circumstances.

I feel like the question you should be asking here is: "Which decks in my cube want to play this?" and not "Is this playable?" Do you have Control or Ramp decks that need a finisher that's hard to stop without creatures? If so, then I think this might have a home in your list. If not, I would recommend looking for something else.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Another option, if you're looking for an uncounterable control finisher in the same vein, is...



In a vacuum the body is definitely a bit worse, I'ld say, except that it has flash, which might make a lot of difference depending on how your control decks play out.
 
W

wahoopride

TrainmasterGT said:
Well, this is definitely a mid-powered card. Not good enough to always win the game by itself, but able to under the correct circumstances.

I feel like the question you should be asking here is: "Which decks in my cube want to play this?" and not "Is this playable?" Do you have Control or Ramp decks that need a finisher that's hard to stop without creatures? If so, then I think this might have a home in your list. If not, I would recommend looking for something else.
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I do need a control finisher. Basically I am looking for what should go at the top of my curve in blue. I have been running this for a while but it never saw much play. I'm not sure my other high end blue cards did either. This gets into a larger discussion about bombs in general--one that I think I saw being discussed in another thread. Basically--what do you want your high cost cards to do? Do you want it to be a total bomb where like...once it is cast, once it resolves, or once it untaps, it mostly wins you the game? Or do you want there to still be some play left in the game after someone plays their 6/7 cost threat? My answer is the second one. I don't like the game to be totally over just because you play a 7cc card. But of course that raises the problem of if you make your 6cc or 7cc too "not good" then people will just never run those cards. So I am trying to find something in between that also fits with some decks, as you suggested.

The reason Nezhal originally made it into the list was because I saw it as a nice control finisher that also was a discard enabler which was something I was trying to push a little bit. But maybe "discard three" is just too much even for a deck that is trying to discard. Like I said it never felt like it really worked out.

Some of the control finishers I am thinking about running or have run in the past:



More accurately these are the cards at 6+ cc that I have run in blue. I have some cards at 5cc that might be classified as finishers but most of them require some work afterwards that wouldn't quite make them outright finishers (like Meloku or Metallurgic Summonings).

In any case, in my new update I am looking for two 6+cc, and I have already decided I am running Sharding Sphinx to go with an artifact theme I am trying to push in the WUR wedge. So I need to pick on more.
 
W

wahoopride

Onderzeeboot said:
Another option, if you're looking for an uncounterable control finisher in the same vein, is...



In a vacuum the body is definitely a bit worse, I'ld say, except that it has flash, which might make a lot of difference depending on how your control decks play out.
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Huh...I kind of like this guy! Very similar feel but a little more...interesting? Also returning three lands feels a little less onerous than discarding three cards. And also it could fit with the landfall type theme I already have going. Plus the prowess fits a bit with the spells matter deck too!
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
wahoopride said:
Huh...I kind of like this guy! Very similar feel but a little more...interesting? Also returning three lands feels a little less onerous than discarding three cards. And also it could fit with the landfall type theme I already have going. Plus the prowess fits a bit with the spells matter deck too!
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The landfall deck might like this, provided it's of the Tatyova, Benthic Druid variant, and not the Plated Geopede variant. Spells matters deck might or might not be interested in this card. Young Pyromancer/Guttersnipe decks try to land the synergy creature early, then go to town with spell triggers. Pearl Lake Ancient doesn't really work in that shell, because it's way too expensive. Typically you would have cast most of the spells in your hand before this lands. On the other hand, if the spells matter deck is more of a slow affair, stalling the game and using, for example, Rise from the Tides as an eventual means to win, Pearl Lake Ancient might actually fit there. Where this shines most is in slow control decks that need a reliable finisher that doesn't just roll over and die to a single Doom Blade. Another option in this category is Sphinx of Jwar Isle, which is especially nice if you support top of library shenanigans obviously.
 
W

wahoopride

Onderzeeboot said:
The landfall deck might like this, provided it's of the Tatyova, Benthic Druid variant, and not the Plated Geopede variant. Spells matters deck might or might not be interested in this card. Young Pyromancer/Guttersnipe decks try to land the synergy creature early, then go to town with spell triggers. Pearl Lake Ancient doesn't really work in that shell, because it's way too expensive. Typically you would have cast most of the spells in your hand before this lands. On the other hand, if the spells matter deck is more of a slow affair, stalling the game and using, for example, Rise from the Tides as an eventual means to win, Pearl Lake Ancient might actually fit there. Where this shines most is in slow control decks that need a reliable finisher that doesn't just roll over and die to a single Doom Blade. Another option in this category is Sphinx of Jwar Isle, which is especially nice if you support top of library shenanigans obviously.
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Yes I do run Tatyova, Benthic Druid and I was definitely trying to give space for a Simic lands matters type deck to come together (thank ravnic for that thread you made about it--got lots of good ideas!). And yeah, the idea of giving it someway to avoid removal as soon as it hits is definitely a goal. But I want to do it without hexproof or shroud which I find annoying. I think you should have to work to dodge spells--either via protections/counters you cast or something like what is on Pearl Lake Ancient or Nezahal, Primal Tide.
 
Velrun

Velrun

Not really a Single Card Spotlight.. but

Has anyone found a good use for the Lockets in a cube?



How about Cluestones or Keyrunes?

 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
All my mana rocks start at three mana, and even I don't play any of these. Maybe that's wrong? The lockets are nice for early ramp and late card advantage, but I already have two Hedron Archives in my cube. I like having different effects on my mana rocks anyway.
 
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