Card/Deck Single Card Spotlight
- Thread starter Dom Harvey
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Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I cut this in my last update because I had to make room, and this feels like it's one of those cards that is a blast to play with if you can draft around it, but is just so hard to do so, especially if this gets openend in pack 2 or 3. What are your experiences with/thoughts on this card?
I cut this in my last update because I had to make room, and this feels like it's one of those cards that is a blast to play with if you can draft around it, but is just so hard to do so, especially if this gets openend in pack 2 or 3. What are your experiences with/thoughts on this card?
Had this in for 3 or 4 drafts. Never saw play. Got cut.
I think it warps deckbuilding too much for what it can offer.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
This so far confirms my feelings about it. Thanks!
The thing I feel about that card, I guess, and why I have never run it, is a couple things.
The best case I can think of is that it's a 5 for 1. that sounds awesome, but it's over 4 turns (played turn and then the 3 turns until the win), so it's actually a 1.25-per-1... per turn. meh. And you have to have the 4 damage be the FINISHER.
It can also be a 5 for 2 when you have to deal with it after 4 turns, which puts it to 0.625 card-per-turn. Less awesome.
And then what happens when you can't even get full value? Their only creature is a prognostic sphinx or thundermaw hellkite? They only have 1 card in their hand? meeeeeh.
If things don't come together, it can literally lose you the game, and I'd rather not stress out newer drafters with that possibility.
On a related note, cool build-around enchantments that I (and a lot of us) like and do we still like them?:
The best case I can think of is that it's a 5 for 1. that sounds awesome, but it's over 4 turns (played turn and then the 3 turns until the win), so it's actually a 1.25-per-1... per turn. meh. And you have to have the 4 damage be the FINISHER.
It can also be a 5 for 2 when you have to deal with it after 4 turns, which puts it to 0.625 card-per-turn. Less awesome.
And then what happens when you can't even get full value? Their only creature is a prognostic sphinx or thundermaw hellkite? They only have 1 card in their hand? meeeeeh.
If things don't come together, it can literally lose you the game, and I'd rather not stress out newer drafters with that possibility.
On a related note, cool build-around enchantments that I (and a lot of us) like and do we still like them?:
Yes to all four listed. Ascendancy is the easiest combo engine ever, Whip is slow but great, Outpost Siege actually has two good modes believe it or not, and Leap is amazing with tokens.
The thing about Demonic Pact that I liked was targeting it with Flickerwisp. None of this wasting your own disenchants, more like a slow grindy 7-for-2 with a definite pressure to close out the game before too long.
The thing about Demonic Pact that I liked was targeting it with Flickerwisp. None of this wasting your own disenchants, more like a slow grindy 7-for-2 with a definite pressure to close out the game before too long.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I cut Whip because board wide lifelink sloooooows down games. The other cards are currently in my cube!
On a related note, cool build-around enchantments that I (and a lot of us) like and do we still like them?:
No experience with Ascendancy... yet.
Whip was painful in constructed, I wouldn't like to repeat that experience in Cube. If it granted *anything* instead of lifelink, maybe.
Siege is cool, both modes are very useful.
Leap in my cube isn't too much of a build-around card, it's used as a sac outlet and as a great anti-control card. It sees play quite often.
Jeskai Ascendancy - Had it in for a hot minute, never was impressed with the decks it created. I used to be quite high on buildarounds but this is hardly a buildaround; it feels more like a hard shove towards one game plan. 3c cards are extremely demanding and this one doesn't do much other than offer even more power to the Prowess deck, which is really strong already in my format. The looting, while offering awesome card selection aid, also feels very unnecessary and superfluous, only there to make it extra bomby, which I didn't like, nevermind the fact that looting is something I like best paired with 
or , who care more about the 'yard. I guess if you aren't breaking singleton and don't mind seeing cards wheel forever it's an okay pick, but I find prowess decks are already bonkers and fun enough without it.
Whip of Erebos - Similar to others, I have to agree that boardwide lifelink at all times is quite a pain to manage, but the top reason I cut it was to push the reanimator deck to look for more pieces than just Enlightened Tutor -> this. I also had a few too many times where players didn't remember the sorcery-only clause and got blown out, which was kinda feel-bad. Since it left, value reanimator turned into an actual deck, so I don't see bringing it back.
Outpost Siege - Both modes are pretty cool but I much prefer Chandra, Pyromaster, who is a bit more vulnerable and does other things. Board spam decks already have enough ways to win, and I didn't like putting yet another sacrifice shenanigan card into red. I've considered bringing it back sometime, but that time isn't now, because Chandra is the bee's knees (since she also does good as a control card), and I don't like her having such splashable, flat competition.
Evolutionary Leap - of all the sac outlets, this one just felt really boring to us. but we probably don't have enough tokens for it to feel that amazing (or enough Craterhoof Behemoths to fetch off a Spectral Procession deck or whatever shenanigans this is most fun in)
or , who care more about the 'yard. I guess if you aren't breaking singleton and don't mind seeing cards wheel forever it's an okay pick, but I find prowess decks are already bonkers and fun enough without it.Whip of Erebos - Similar to others, I have to agree that boardwide lifelink at all times is quite a pain to manage, but the top reason I cut it was to push the reanimator deck to look for more pieces than just Enlightened Tutor -> this. I also had a few too many times where players didn't remember the sorcery-only clause and got blown out, which was kinda feel-bad. Since it left, value reanimator turned into an actual deck, so I don't see bringing it back.
Outpost Siege - Both modes are pretty cool but I much prefer Chandra, Pyromaster, who is a bit more vulnerable and does other things. Board spam decks already have enough ways to win, and I didn't like putting yet another sacrifice shenanigan card into red. I've considered bringing it back sometime, but that time isn't now, because Chandra is the bee's knees (since she also does good as a control card), and I don't like her having such splashable, flat competition.
Evolutionary Leap - of all the sac outlets, this one just felt really boring to us. but we probably don't have enough tokens for it to feel that amazing (or enough Craterhoof Behemoths to fetch off a Spectral Procession deck or whatever shenanigans this is most fun in)
Honestly, I'm okay with Demonic Pact being a last pick or in a sideboard a lot of the time. I'm the kind of Johnny/Spike who loves the challenge weird minigame cards and will probably enjoy myself even if it's not great from a pure power perspective. I reserve the right to change my mind after playtesting though.
Dom Harvey
Contributor
Is this card just BS through-and-through?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
No, but the protection bit is. Very.
Is this card just BS through-and-through?
In essence, yes, which is why they errataed. Notable bad things that can happen:
spear of heliod
goblin sharpshooter
purphoros, god of the forge
ivy lane denizen
impact tremors <- T3, two card combo that just curves out... yikes.
I mean, yes, but that's a two-card three-colour combo. The CDE cards are so hard to cast I'm okay with enabling a situational combo deck, especially since Marath slices, dices, and combos out to boot.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Has anyone any experience with this card? I remember it being pretty good reach back in the day, but six lands is not where you want to be in the deck that benefits most from this effect (aggro). Is this at all playable? Does the arrival of
change any of that?Pretty much the same question about...
I played with it back in the day too and it's... fine? It really depends on the speed of your format as to whether it is playable or not, and how you want to give your decks with red aggro in it reach. Hellion Crucible seems like it might have more impact.
For red colourless lands, I would love an excuse to cube:
For red colourless lands, I would love an excuse to cube:
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I played with it back in the day too and it's... fine? It really depends on the speed of your format as to whether it is playable or not, and how you want to give your decks with red aggro in it reach. Hellion Crucible seems like it might have more impact.
For red colourless lands, I would love an excuse to cube:
I used to cube Kher Keep, and it saw a bit of play in red Smokestack decks, but other than that it was pretty much never picked. 0/1's just don't have much of an impact, so the card is pretty niche in its applications. Much better if you run a decent amount of anthems though I imagine.
As an aside, I know you have customs, but it's a shame that there wasn't more playable/interesting colourless matters cards in OGW, and I get the feeling that we won't get any more for a long time. I like:
I don't think that's enough to warp your mana to support the 'theme' unfortunately. At a push, I'd include:
Or should I just be looking at it as an excuse to cube lots of interesting lands that produce colourless?
I don't think that's enough to warp your mana to support the 'theme' unfortunately. At a push, I'd include:
Or should I just be looking at it as an excuse to cube lots of interesting lands that produce colourless?
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
I like quite a bit more actually. I currently run:
The Infiltrator has good stats for its cost and evasion, and flash is a really nice ability when you're holding up a two mana counterspell.
Deepfathom Skulker buries your opponents in card advantage if you have monsters that can connect, and it can also make your guys unblockable to break board stalls.
Essence Depleter has decent stats, and the lifeleech adds up if you manage multiple colorless sources. Also good in board stalls.
The Shrieker is a tremendous attacker, often trading 2 for 1 if they have to block it because you can pump it. And if they can't block it it's rapidly turning a race in your favor.
Mindmelter breaks board stalls and has a relevant activated ability. It's been quietly good in the games I tried so far. Never spectacular, but much more solid than I had anticipated.
I'm suprised you didn't mention Reality Smasher. Not interested in a giant beatstick with some insurance in case your opponent has to kill it with a spell?
Endbringer untaps every upkeep. Took me a while before I saw that. Giant beating if it lives!
Spatial Contortion is a solid removal spell that's useful for all the archetypes, and a good reward for accomodating colorless in your mana base.
And then I filled in some spots with customs to get every color up to two cards. I didn't really like the red options, white only had one option, and Worldbreaker wasn't really what I was looking for in green. These are quite simple designs, partly based of snow permanents from Coldsnap, that just fill in a few things I like to call "design holes" Red was lacking artifact removal, some people felt Flametongue Kavu was borderline too powerful (I cut it for that reason before actually, so I can't really disagree), and green lacked something to counteract flyers, maybe still does (this is just one card, after all).
The Infiltrator has good stats for its cost and evasion, and flash is a really nice ability when you're holding up a two mana counterspell.
Deepfathom Skulker buries your opponents in card advantage if you have monsters that can connect, and it can also make your guys unblockable to break board stalls.
Essence Depleter has decent stats, and the lifeleech adds up if you manage multiple colorless sources. Also good in board stalls.
The Shrieker is a tremendous attacker, often trading 2 for 1 if they have to block it because you can pump it. And if they can't block it it's rapidly turning a race in your favor.
Mindmelter breaks board stalls and has a relevant activated ability. It's been quietly good in the games I tried so far. Never spectacular, but much more solid than I had anticipated.
I'm suprised you didn't mention Reality Smasher. Not interested in a giant beatstick with some insurance in case your opponent has to kill it with a spell?
Endbringer untaps every upkeep. Took me a while before I saw that. Giant beating if it lives!
Spatial Contortion is a solid removal spell that's useful for all the archetypes, and a good reward for accomodating colorless in your mana base.
And then I filled in some spots with customs to get every color up to two
cards. I didn't really like the red options, white only had one option, and Worldbreaker wasn't really what I was looking for in green. These are quite simple designs, partly based of snow permanents from Coldsnap, that just fill in a few things I like to call "design holes" Red was lacking artifact removal, some people felt Flametongue Kavu was borderline too powerful (I cut it for that reason before actually, so I can't really disagree), and green lacked something to counteract flyers, maybe still does (this is just one card, after all).