General The Draft Exchange

Alphez

Alphez

Drafted psly4mne's Cube.

P1P1 I don't see any clear signals towards specific archetypes, so I pick Wretched Confluence because it's the strongest and most versatile card in the pack. P1P2 there's Mystic Confluence, I don't even look at the other 13 ones and decide to go the control route. Towards the end of P1 I get passed a Sorin, Lord of Innistrad and decide to add white because I'm not seeing too many UB goodies anymore. I had already picked a Tundra earlier because of lack of better control options, so the choice is not too difficult.

The following packs deliver additional PW's, mass removal and good early blockers. P3 gives me Sun Titan and Sphinx's Revelation to fill my top end (I already had Aetherling, but I think the other two cards are much more powerful in this list).

It's a very powerful control deck, but I have plenty of double-coloured mana costs so I am not really sure it would play too well even with 4 duals.

I realise now that Brainstorm is close to useless in this deck, since I have only one shuffle effect in the deck. I'd replace that with Shrine of Loyal Legions from the SB, which can help to survive to the late game, is castable early regardless of which lands I have and works well with Sun Titan.

alphez's draft of Adam's cube on 24/07/2016 from CubeTutor.com












If I can give an opinion, I think you need to reduce the colour requirements in your Cube. I found it to be a real issue. Unless you explicitly want to push 2-colour decks, but I think that's not the case since you also have shard/wedge cards.

I also had a hard time trying to understand some of your customs. They are so wordy! I still have to figure out why some artifacts have Loyalty counters on them.
 
psly4mne

psly4mne

Alphez said:
If I can give an opinion, I think you need to reduce the colour requirements in your Cube. I found it to be a real issue. Unless you explicitly want to push 2-colour decks, but I think that's not the case since you also have shard/wedge cards.
Click to expand...
That's pretty reasonable. I want 3 color decks to be viable. 3 color decks have been common enough, but so have color problems, even though the land count is higher than most cubes run. I was about to cut Once More With Feeling and I just cut Massacre Wurm for that reason, but I should probably do a more general reduction of color requirements. Was your main issue the quantity of 1CC 3 drops?

I also had a hard time trying to understand some of your customs. They are so wordy! I still have to figure out why some artifacts have Loyalty counters on them.
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The two artifacts with loyalty counters are tricky. They're basically different fixed versions of Volrath's Shapeshifter, which is not a card that can be done simply. Most people get that they need a loyalty counter so the don't just die if they become planeswalkers.
 
Alphez

Alphez

psly4mne said:
That's pretty reasonable. I want 3 color decks to be viable. 3 color decks have been common enough, but so have color problems, even though the land count is higher than most cubes run. I was about to cut Once More With Feeling and I just cut Massacre Wurm for that reason, but I should probably do a more general reduction of color requirements. Was your main issue the quantity of 1CC 3 drops?
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It's not just about 3 drops. For example, look at your 4-drops. Green has the most splashable 4-drops in your cube, and still only 50% of them require just a single coloured mana. In a 3-coloured deck, you could easily find yourself unable to cast all your spells even if you don't miss land drops.

I think you need to make a conscious effort to reduce colour requirements. I had to do the same a few months ago, but after doing that I think deckbuilding became a much more enjoyable process.

Speaking of which, I just made a bunch of changes to my list and I definitely need to check the costs again. Boring :(

psly4mne said:
The two artifacts with loyalty counters are tricky. They're basically different fixed versions of Volrath's Shapeshifter, which is not a card that can be done simply. Most people get that they need a loyalty counter so the don't just die if they become planeswalkers.
Click to expand...


Lol, I totally missed that. To be honest, I am quite biased against custom cards and I think that, if you really need to make some, they at least need to be as clean as possible since players cannot count on previous play experience to understand them. So, if I cannot grasp them right away, I'll just dismiss them and move on.

Disclaimer: me not liking custom cards doesn't mean that I think they are wrong. It just means that I wouldn't put them in my Cube and that I am less inclined to draft them than most players :)
 
GiftsForgiven

GiftsForgiven

Drafted Adam's cube. P1P1 was collapsing plane, because it's a custom card and I wanted to see how deep I could go with it. Deck came out pretty neat, I think.

All-In Collapsing Plane from CubeTutor.com












Note that Planar Collapse is Collapsing Plane. The relevant text on there is that whenever a nonland permanent you control leaves the battlefield, it domes a creature or player for 1. Seemed like a fun buildaround.
 
psly4mne

psly4mne

I was just reading the other thread about Brainstorm being overrated, and I see two decks that run it with 0-1 shuffle effects. Might be onto something. Possibly that I should double up on fetches, which would help a little with 3 color decks as well.

I went ahead and drafted Alphaz's and GiftsForgiven's cubes.

First, a UW control deck (off P1P1 JTMS) splashing green for Urban Evolution. I ended up with a bunch of ETBT fixing lands, and I think you can only run so many of those before they slow you down too much. I'm not a fan of them at all. The rest of the deck has some fun pieces. I'm really looking forward to playing with Spell Queller.

WUg Control from CubeTutor.com












Drafted a RG aggro deck from GiftsForgiven's cube, and I ended up with enough playables to go monored with a low curve. It's a pretty straightforward deck, with some good Kruin Striker interactions.

Monored from CubeTutor.com









 
Alphez

Alphez

psly4mne said:
I was just reading the other thread about Brainstorm being overrated, and I see two decks that run it with 0-1 shuffle effects. Might be onto something. Possibly that I should double up on fetches, which would help a little with 3 color decks as well.

I went ahead and drafted Alphaz's and GiftsForgiven's cubes.

First, a UW control deck (off P1P1 JTMS) splashing green for Urban Evolution. I ended up with a bunch of ETBT fixing lands, and I think you can only run so many of those before they slow you down too much. I'm not a fan of them at all. The rest of the deck has some fun pieces. I'm really looking forward to playing with Spell Queller.
Click to expand...

Funny that in that very same topic I wrote about Brainstorm being a card that teaches people not to take cards at face value and 5 minutes later I did just that.

Re: ETBT lands in my Cube, this is partly due to the much lower power level I have in my Cube compared to yours, I think. I want people to pay a cost, if they want to splash that third or fourth colour.
 
Peter LaCara

Peter LaCara

Took a shot at Safra's cube.

BUG Braids/Titania from CubeTutor.com












There's a couple custom lands in there, and Bring to Light has a line crossed out. I first picked Braids over Garruk Wildspeaker just because I wanted to see if I could make her work. Then I second picked Titania because I wanted to see if I could make her work. I think Titania's gonna work better here than Braids in this deck. Deck looks fun, though.
 
Peter LaCara

Peter LaCara

psly4mne said:
Drafted Peter's.

I first picked Skinrender (didn't end up playing it, possibly should have). Moved into white because it looked open and Thalia is good. Ended up in BW aggro with kind of an awkward curve but strong cards.
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I like it! I'm not sure how good Thalia's Lieutenant is over some of the other options in the board, and I'd probably shave a land since your curve is so low and you have plenty of good stuff sitting in the board still. This is how I envision WB aggro decks are supposed to look in my cube, so that's cool.

Took a crack at GiftsForgiven's.

UB Reanimator from CubeTutor.com












First picked Living Death because I wanted to see what I could make of it. Second picked Treachery, which I'm pretty sure would never happen in a real world setting. There were a lot of painful picks for me along the way, passing up two swords and taking Trading Post over Control Magic near the end of pack 1 since I wanted to commit to the theme. Didn't see any fatties worth reanimating until pack 3, but it sort of didn't matter at that point because I picked up Pack Rat earlier in pack 2, and at that point it sort of doesn't matter what the rest of your deck looks like.

I think this deck looks fun to play. Probably absolutely miserable to play against.
 
psly4mne

psly4mne

Drafted GiftsForgiven's. P1P1 Sword of Light and Shadow followed by Smokestack. Maybe a little biased, because I love the prison archetype. I moved into white for Mother of Runes, and a few picks later Liliana of the Veil for black. I ended up with three swords plus Batterskull and both Relic Seeker and Stoneforge, which feels kind of dirty. I'd probably board 1-2 swords out most matches, but I want the maximum protection to tutor for maindeck.

WB Equipment/Stax from CubeTutor.com










 
Laz

Laz

Developer
Peter LaCara said:
Drafted psly4mne's KYOOB.

<deck>

First picked Sublime Archangel out of a weak first pack, second picked Ajani, Vengeant, 3rd picked a Go For the Throat as a hedge, and then saw Jeskai Ascendancy. Decided to build my deck around it, and I thought it came out well.
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Man, Young Pyromancer plus Ascendancy is just gross. Oh wait. That is just Monastery Mentor.
 
Laz

Laz

Developer
Drafted Pete's cube of Good Gaming.
I ended up with this thing... which kind of defines classification. Some hands are going to be really aggressive, some will involve playing out those same aggressive creatures and aggressively trading, and some just will be messy. Overall I am pretty happy where it ended up, but the draft was all over the place.
Started with Elspeth, Suns Champion out of a pack with Nahiri and Liliana, then took Gather the Townsfolk out of a pack where the only competition was a removal spell and Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (odd pack). Thought I might be going in a more tokens-y direction, then basically flip-flopped colour pairings for the entire rest of the pack, between Braids for BW Token Stax, Goblin Bombardment for some reach in RW go-wide, Awakening Zone and Avatar of the Resolute to combine with the Ajani I picked up and the Knight of the Reliquary I speculated on, before getting a late Eldrazi Skyspawner.
During that pack I always had tokens front of mind, and picked up Ajani of the Antheming and Secure the Wastes.
Second pack saw a Snapcaster in the first pack, along with a bunch of other good blue cards and went 'well, Elspeth is awesome in control...' and kind of audibled. Didn't wheel any of the control cards, but ended up with enough 'pseudo-defensive' aggressive cards (Precinct Captain, Azorious Guildmage) that it kind of worked out. Saw a late Lingering Souls, then just kept my eye out for free Black sources.

UW Token/Control Mashup from CubeTutor.com










 
Peter LaCara

Peter LaCara

Laz said:
Drafted Pete's cube of Good Gaming.
I ended up with this thing... which kind of defines classification. Some hands are going to be really aggressive, some will involve playing out those same aggressive creatures and aggressively trading, and some just will be messy. Overall I am pretty happy where it ended up, but the draft was all over the place.
Started with Elspeth, Suns Champion out of a pack with Nahiri and Liliana, then took Gather the Townsfolk out of a pack where the only competition was a removal spell and Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (odd pack). Thought I might be going in a more tokens-y direction, then basically flip-flopped colour pairings for the entire rest of the pack, between Braids for BW Token Stax, Goblin Bombardment for some reach in RW go-wide, Awakening Zone and Avatar of the Resolute to combine with the Ajani I picked up and the Knight of the Reliquary I speculated on, before getting a late Eldrazi Skyspawner.
During that pack I always had tokens front of mind, and picked up Ajani of the Antheming and Secure the Wastes.
Second pack saw a Snapcaster in the first pack, along with a bunch of other good blue cards and went 'well, Elspeth is awesome in control...' and kind of audibled. Didn't wheel any of the control cards, but ended up with enough 'pseudo-defensive' aggressive cards (Precinct Captain, Azorious Guildmage) that it kind of worked out. Saw a late Lingering Souls, then just kept my eye out for free Black sources.
Click to expand...

That is a weird deck. I feel like if you'd picked a direction and went harder in it, the deck'd be stronger. Still neat, though.

Drafted Laz's primary cube 'cause I can't sleep.

Abzan Midrange from CubeTutor.com











First picked CoCo over Domri Rade and another strong multicolored option that I can't remember now. Second picked Bob. Third picked Saffi as an experiment. Forgot to think about fixing until late in pack 2, and had to pass up some strong double mana cost cards as a result.
 
psly4mne

psly4mne

Drafted Pete's

I started off with Ophiomancer, Merfolk Looter. I saw Bob pretty early, kept my curve low, and ended up with a very aggressive looking UB deck that happens to include three different tribal synergies (humans, spirits, zombies).

BU Aggro from CubeTutor.com









 
Peter LaCara

Peter LaCara

psly4mne said:
Drafted Pete's

I started off with Ophiomancer, Merfolk Looter. I saw Bob pretty early, kept my curve low, and ended up with a very aggressive looking UB deck that happens to include three different tribal synergies (humans, spirits, zombies).
Click to expand...

I like it! Lots of interlocking themes, and UB aggro isn't something you see every day.

UWr Control from CubeTutor.com












First picked Consecrated Sphinx because that card is nuts. Second picked Venser, the Sojourner and tried to look for blink targets. I forgot I had him about halfway through when I saw Elspeth, Sun's Champion. I picked up some WR lands along the way and got a free Assemble the Legion near the end of a pack and decided to splash it.
 
psly4mne

psly4mne

That raises a point I've been meaning to ask about. In my group, the accepted wisdom is that a deck with that much lategame requires 18 lands, but I've consistently seen decks here run 1 less land than I would. Is 17 land enough in a deck like that?
 
GiftsForgiven

GiftsForgiven

psly4mne said:
That raises a point I've been meaning to ask about. In my group, the accepted wisdom is that a deck with that much lategame requires 18 lands, but I've consistently seen decks here run 1 less land than I would. Is 17 land enough in a deck like that?
Click to expand...


Depends on how many mana rocks and looting you have. I've been able to cut to 17 lands on lategame decks that have guys like looter-il-kor in them.

(Also, I really need to get around to drafting your cube, sorry. I haven't forgotten, I've just been crazy busy.)
 
psly4mne

psly4mne

I wouldn't agree with cutting lands on the basis of having looters. If anything looters would make me want to round up the land count, since I can hit my early land drops more consistently and loot the extra land away later. That's incidentally why I love Magmatic Insight. It's not at all obvious how to use it, but it lets you run an extra land and make those early land drops consistently, then dig past lands in the midgame.

Also, a draft of Peter's since I'm here. I committed to red early, went into white for Thalia. I had a choice between going human synergy and Young Pyro and I tried to push prowess. I have a good number of Pyro/prowess triggers and a few ways to take advantage. I'm not sure how to evaluate Bedlam Reveler. I have 8 instants/sorceries, but Dark-Dwellers and Screech's flashback work against it. Still probably a good way to refill or dig for reach once my hand is exhausted.

RW Prowess from CubeTutor.com










 
Peter LaCara

Peter LaCara

psly4mne said:
That raises a point I've been meaning to ask about. In my group, the accepted wisdom is that a deck with that much lategame requires 18 lands, but I've consistently seen decks here run 1 less land than I would. Is 17 land enough in a deck like that?
Click to expand...
Y'know, right after I wrote the post I took a look at the deck again and decided that I should probably cut something for an 18th land. Probably Sakashima's Student.
 
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