The Penny Pincher Cube 2.0--Inventors' Fair

[Grillo_Parlante]

And on the topic of vore and izzet



Disrupting an opponents gameplan to get hits in off of hasty berserkers buffed by the spell interactions that push them through, than dealing enough dmg to get the opponent into burn range is a great izzet strategy.

You get a deck that cares about spells, but not in the forced draft trappy way that a delver deck does. Obviously, there is a big condition of having a format where you can run vore, voice, planning and moltensteel, but this is way more reasonable of an izzet identity than the spells matter delver decks. Your sorcery density is mostly coming from bread and butter interaction or draw/sifting that would be fine in a generic control or midrange deck, and than you can decide how deep you really want to go.

And this setup works fine in gruul, or Temur, which is another zerker color, or R/W or RUW where those decks are in the market anyways for quick burst dmg, and sorceries to build their wide boards.

 

[RavebornMuse]

What do you think of Academy Elite at this power level? I haven't tried it in my current list because I was concerned it was simply too good of a beater and draw engine here, and too splashable at that mana point, but maybe it's actually just right.

Really appreciate this commentary on Magnivore, which I had a great deal of skepticism about, but which really looks like it can work if you tune your list for it. If I wasn't so fond of Charging Monstrosaur, I'd probably take it for a spin, but I think the dino probably pushes Vore out of the running in my list.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

I think it would be fine. If you check my sb, I've considered it about 5 million times. It dosen't ETB, and is mana intensive so I would be willing to give it a whirl.

I realize vore isn't raw value, but its more of a tapered build around card for red. Its not as narrow as lab man in blue, but its a reasonable card to challenge the drafter with, and fun to make work.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Put in the order for the alfonzo cards. Looked over his mana base, and going to try removing a set of bouncelands for 5 karoos, and 5 vivids. Will see how it goes, but if it works, it will be cool to finally achieve a singleton format.

I also feel like I could expand it out to 540 if I had a pressing reason to do so, without destroying the archetypes, or basic structure of the format. Thats pretty cool, and speaks to how robust this index is.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Omg, I feel so much pressure! Hope they work out for you!

Looking forward to seeing some key to the city ninja decks.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

I know we had a few topics pop up years ago when theros came out about enchantment themes. For whatever its worth, the bestow mechanic has been really good with ophidians. Those cards actively want auras (and to my knowledge, ophidians are the only somewhat competitive theme that actively wants auras), but they also keep the creature density up, which is just generally good for these decks, as well as the cube, since they are modal cards. They also gave you access to auras in colors that are generally starved for that effect, but which have ophidians (blue/black/red). Nimbus nayad in blue is particularly nice, because it grants evasion, which the simic deck actively wants. And they up the enchantment density in a way that isn't terribly narrow in terms of answers.

Its not to hard from there to add in an incidental sprinkling of some of the better constellation creatures, which is actually pretty nice since they offer a sort of subdued ETB that gets better with synergy.

Its not an enchantress deck, but a lot less narrow, and easier to build into a wedge/shard.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Ran the cube over new years, and it was pretty sweet. The ninjas are fully back, they just needed the slight increase in token makers and the better ophidian enablers. Bestow creatures in blue and black go a long ways to making those cards better, and its nice to have found the niche for the bestow mechanic. I put ninja of the deep hours back in because the card is just too much fun, and god pharaoh's gift really pushes the power tolerences of the list. Its maybe slightly too good, being basically a slightly toned down debtor's kneel, but its running the cusp close enough where I can look the other way, and its really cements the zombie decks.

The big mechanical revelation were the vivids. Did you guys know you can increase the counters on them with the proliferate mechanic? This was by far the best use of counter growth I've seen, as its tied to something fundimental to every draft deck. It made me think of mechanics to promote resource growth, like using proliferate to regrow vivids, multiple energy counters, and promote multiple color use through abilities like sunburst.

 

[CaptnIrony]

Drafted this:

CaptnIrony's draft of Penny Pincher 2.0--Inventors' Fair on 13/01/2018 from CubeTutor.com

I'm a bit confused with some of the cards that tabled or didn't, are cards picked by bots with the frequency at which they've been picked by players?

In hindsight, I should have splashed white. I ended up with two duals that had white and could have picked up at least one more. There were very good white cards going around.

I tried to make a UR control ish deck. I had picked up some madness cards, but not enough discard to enable them. I included as my last two cards Trade Secrets and Drake Haven as an engine I'd like to test. I'm imagining having both on the field would be quite entertaining. Bit of an anti-synergy with all the high land count stuff I'd want to do late game though.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

The format takes a bit of getting used to. You have a vizier of tumbling sands in your sideboard which is mana ramp for your expensive spells. Would also play your one colour temple and cycling land.

Also Grillo, your card struggle is set to two mana rather than three, which always sets me off when I see it!

 

[Chris Taylor]

Looks like he added Survive Rather than struggle?

IIRC thats how cubetutor handles split cards

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

So, some data.

Vivid lands, confirmed OP. Easy first pick cards, absolutely absurd design. Will keep them in because they are only 5, but that is honestly probably a mistake.

UG has taken some interesting twists and turns, and labman is becoming closer to a legitimate win condition, rather than just an eccentric novalty.

UG lab man from CubeTutor.com

We've seen a couple decks like this over the course of the last month, and they are an interesting blend of the tempo elements of a traditional UG/x decks, combined with the graveyard depletion and recursion elements of the BG/x decks. I'm really relieved to see that this isn't a misdraft, and the jumble of assertive and reactive somehow manages to be somewhat coherent. Thus appropriately, the deck itself has been the result of draft stresses, where a player gets cut off plan, and had to creatively take a color they were forced into, splicing the proactive with the reactive.

The reason that this class of deck has been working seems to revolve around a couple factors:

1. Because green has a lot of incidental raise dead and recursion effects, labman himself is free to journey out to smash face, which is yes, hilarious. All of the recursion in green and blue lets the tempo portion of these decks threat grind through removal, giving it a surprisingly effect attrition strategy.

2. Cards like moldervine cloak both buff evasive attackers (supporting tempo) but do so in a way that depletes the library (supporting labman).

3. land searchers like spring/mind or monitor/tusker have a tendency to remove 2-3 cards from the library, and blue draw is all self-mill based.

4. If the game starts to stall, labman becomes a valued alternate win condition to deal with situations where G/Us lack of hard removal, would otherwise doom it.

5. The combination of flyers in blue, and tokens in green, means that the combination is surprisngly good at going shields up, and moating the board until either an over-the-top ramp finisher can come crushing in, or an alternate win condition can secure the win.

We also had another alternate win condition take the spotlight in these decks:



A couple weeks ago I saw it a UG/w varient of this beat a GR deck that resolved sandwurm convergence in two games, by milling its opponent out in both of them.

It was pretty epic to say the least.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Cutting



And going to try



From the bonzo cube. GPG was GRBS, reducing the entire game to hitting 7 mana and resolving it.

 

[RavebornMuse]

Glad we reached the same conclusion on GPG; I had hoped you might be able to contain it with your density of artifact answers, but I had a suspicion it would be a more brutal removal check than Baneslayer Angel ever dreamed of being. A shame; the design was interesting and my drafters found it exciting for a bit until we realized it was just GRBS.

 

[inscho]

Oh wow, I didn't realize the token sticks around.....that makes it way better than I thought.

 

[CaptnIrony]

Dang I might have to remove it from mine.
I'll have a look at other colorless artifacts that fill a similar role.

 

[sigh]

Unfortunately there isn't much that fills a similar role, or even has a remotely similar effect, in colorless. I guess The Immortal Sun is a "big end-game artifact", but it's a really weird pile of effects. Tamiyo's Journal is also a really cool card, but doesn't ring with me as the same sort of top-end bomb card.

I can definitely see GPG being overly strong in some/many formats. My experience has been "strong but beatable". I like that ramping it out doesn't really do overly much for you, but cheating it out with the Daretti deck puts you in a framework that can fill the yard. Neat little things.

 

[inscho]

Mindslaver has been a lot of fun in my cube. On both sides....well, when it's activated once. No one has successfully locked anyone out yet.

 

[Aston]

My deck from our online draft today, I went 2-1 beating McMenno and Gozmit, and lost to Kirblinx



I saw Thalia's Lieutenant and decided I wanted to cast it as many times as I could.

There are some videos of games here:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/232479612
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/232474090
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/232464449
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/232445981

They're silent (or might have our discord chat in the background of people talking about other games) and occasionally I forgot I was streaming and closed the window, but I got I think all three of my rounds plus a few games between other players.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Heres my R/G loam deck and McMenno's lab man deck. He got a lab win! Achievement unlocked.

R/G Loam from CubeTutor.com

Durdle Maniac from CubeTutor.com

Second game was really fun. I got my loam engine online, and was powering it with wild mongrel and sheltered thicket, to both keep the mongrel pumped up every turn and swinging, while also growing Magnivore.

But he was able to get out of it with aftermath memory, than make a giant lorescale coatl by chaining draw spells, forcing me to chump block with pelakka wurm.

Ended up surviving my rude awakening by 1 point of life, and getting the lab man kill on the following turn.

What was the nonsense going on with thrabian inspecter I kept on hearing in chat?

 

[Aston]

Kirblinx: That Thraben Inspector is going to kill me, isn't it.

and sure enough

The game is here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/232479612?t=00h25m51s

 

[Kirblinx]

Sorry it took so long for me to post, videos were rendering...

Here was the deck I ended up with:

Mardu Trinkets?.. Madness!

It was an aggressive deck with a pretty strong midrangey game as well. I ended up 3-0, beating Gozmit, Aston and McMenno.
You can check out my videos here:
If you haven't watched me vs Aston yet, check out this vid, I do a commentary on the replay as they were all very interesting games:

Spoiler: Videos

Round 1 vs Gozmit

Round 2 vs Aston

Round 3 vs McMenno

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

There seems to be issues with the recording for the match vs. aston? Thankfully, it seems to have worked itself out for the part of game 3, right before the engines come online (19:31 in the vid), which tbh I was hoping that you would record. I knew something sweet was going on when I heard you talking over discord about salvaging station. You're commentary over those games was also very good btw.

It was really awesome watching those two silly engines playing against each other: R/W salvaging station recurring the ultimate removal/draw trinket, pyrite spellbomb, vs. B/W oversold cemetary recurring a ridiculous thraben inspector draw engine.

I was really happy with the decks, from a design perspective. Now for me to put on my cube designer hat.

Gozmit had a sort of U/W evasive tempo/artifacts deck, where he took some of the efficient white ground pounders, and than married that with some of the blue flyers. Traditionally, in older iterations of the cube that would have been a misdraft, but when your white one drop section is less narrow beaters like savannah lions, and is instead more flexible dorks like student of warfare/toolcraft exemplar, its much harder to misdraft those decks, because the aggro cards are so much more flexible.

Kirbs deck is also great, because it shows the value of designing in both small and large strategies into a guild, even one that we think of as being a narrow aggro guild. He has this really interesting sort of hybrid aggro/midrange deck. Both that deck, Aston's B/W deck (and my GR deck) have draw engines that allow them to compete meaningfully against blue based decks, which is pretty important i.m.o.

McMenno's deck, which I know he was kind of bashing in the draft, was great to see. I think it was a month ago, I talked about how labman has a home in a sort of UG shell. Those decks are really good at drawing cards, and asserting a tempo plan, but sometimes will get stalled, and struggle to push through finishing dmg, though they can assemble a large board state of ground pounders and flyers to stay alive. Labman has a valid home there, as a sort of weird, and very cool, reach plan.

That may not have been the optimal build for it, but it was cool seeing him naturally follow the lines, and end up in the right ball park.

There was enough pressure on the ground to keep the games active and moving alone, but having the aggro point at turn 2, meant there was more time for engines to develope, and game texture had room to shift and alter, rather than staying linear. It seemed like the games were ending around turn 8, which is a nice point i.m.o, with at least one game out of each match featuring multiple phases to it, rather than the games having that linear feeling of one player pulling ahead, and than staying there.

Loved all of the decks: very creative and interesting designs!

 

[Kirblinx]

There seems to be issues with the recording for the match vs. aston? Thankfully, it seems to have worked itself out for the part of game 3, right before the engines come online (19:31 in the vid), which tbh I was hoping that you would record. I knew something sweet was going on when I heard you talking over discord about salvaging station. You're commentary over those games was also very good btw.

It was really awesome watching those two silly engines playing against each other: R/W salvaging station recurring the ultimate removal/draw trinket, pyrite spellbomb, vs. B/W oversold cemetary recurring a ridiculous thraben inspector draw engine.

Whoops. I recorded all my replays separately and then merged them all together in windows movie maker. I only checked each video for a second to make sure the quality was right, I didn't check the whole thing, and lo and behold, in game 2 the video freezes for the entire video. My commentary remains, but that doesn't really help when you can't see what is going on. I don't think it is worth me showing people how I flood out, but it will teach me not to check my work more thoroughly before I post.

If I ever get good at editing I might even do the draft videos, as they are waaaaaayyyyy too long-winded to be consumable live.
Also, thanks for the feedback. It means a lot.

I really did like my deck. I can't believe that I got the Salvaging Station last pick and it was relevant.
I'm also glad that the draft was worth your time, and some info was gained.

Do you know what Durdle_Master drafted? I believe he went 0-3, was there anything to be learnt from that? Did he enjoy his time? Does he hate MtGO and will never use it again? These are the important questions.

 

[Aston]

There were a couple of screenshots of board states against him that looked like he had a R/B sacrifice deck with Krenko and Goblin Sharpshooter.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Do you know what Durdle_Master drafted? I believe he went 0-3, was there anything to be learnt from that? Did he enjoy his time? Does he hate MtGO and will never use it again? These are the important questions.

He had fun. It was a nice casual, social experience for him. Afterwards he was asking if we would be drafting once a month, and sounded excited. If there had been competitive brackets and shit talking, maybe he would have had a bad time, but you guys were all great. MTGO went smoother than I thought for him.


You all know how it is when you first get on MTGO: just clicking to manage the constant phase changes ends up taking a lot of time before you learn the short cuts. Misclicks happen, and its generally the first time that the abstract phases of the turn get put into a hard form you can see. He didn't want to draft a slower deck that he would be constantly timing out on, or be tanking complicated decisions with, so he went with a Krenko deck, a card that he likes but which he's pretty new to, (usually he drafts these big green durdly decks, which I ironically drafted instead). He made a few misclicks, and ended up skipping his own turn once (he thinks), but survived.

Usually, we don't play with timers, so this is a new, but good experience for him.