I'm currently running only these two, but I am often tempted to cut them completely. I do not know what a UG deck should look like in this cube, apart from BUG graveyardy stuff. What are you guys doing with this color pair?
Card/Deck Ug... What should I do with my Blue-Green section?
- Thread starter James Stevenson
- Start date
I'm currently running only these two, but I am often tempted to cut them completely. I do not know what a UG deck should look like in this cube, apart from BUG graveyardy stuff. What are you guys doing with this color pair?
Well, what do you want to do with UG? I feel like it's either Tempo or some kind of Ramp section, so I guess you can season to taste.
Kiora, the Crashing Wave, Prophet of Kruphix, and Simic Sky Swallower are my Simic section. I passed on Shardless Agent because to me, UG is about tempo and control, and the risk of hitting a counterspell or an untimely bounce spell was too steep, and if you're drafting UG, not getting any of those effects in my cube would be dreadful luck. I've considered expanding, but these three work great for now. UG tends to also splash another colour or two because the mana and card selection are really great; my blue has lots of nice selection, and green has a fair few ways to fix, so it makes for quite a house.
UG provides the card selection and control power of blue paired with Green's value creatures and serious beaters, and while that pairing doesn't have super-obvious synergy, I think it's a very good pair to play. So why does it seem unloved? My instinct tells me that the lure of big creature tempo beats isn't quite as clear an archetype as the other Gx options; most people know about and enjoy RG stompfest decks or WG early-midrange or BG graveyard shenanigans, so UG finds itself being the underappreciated brother of the family; the hunky, lanky, college-going older brother who isn't as popular as his siblings who work in the town feed store. It's odd, because RG stompy isn't particularly synergized most of the time aside from "play creatures" and WG tends to feel like the same boat, but the tempo-beats of UG never seems to satisfy the popular imagination as a draftable archetype, as Wizards has historically struggled to decide what the pair wants to do and provide ample support for it. I feel like looking for UG cards to knit the strategy together more explictly is unnecessary, though; the three I run do great work in the UG deck that wants them, and they all contribute to it nicely and offer it rich lines of play. I'd suggest trying to force the pair real soon, or perhaps even try building the pair out of my cube for some inspiration; you might be surprised by how fun it can be once you stop looking for the archetype angle and embrace the tempo-beats!
UG provides the card selection and control power of blue paired with Green's value creatures and serious beaters, and while that pairing doesn't have super-obvious synergy, I think it's a very good pair to play. So why does it seem unloved? My instinct tells me that the lure of big creature tempo beats isn't quite as clear an archetype as the other Gx options; most people know about and enjoy RG stompfest decks or WG early-midrange or BG graveyard shenanigans, so UG finds itself being the underappreciated brother of the family; the hunky, lanky, college-going older brother who isn't as popular as his siblings who work in the town feed store. It's odd, because RG stompy isn't particularly synergized most of the time aside from "play creatures" and WG tends to feel like the same boat, but the tempo-beats of UG never seems to satisfy the popular imagination as a draftable archetype, as Wizards has historically struggled to decide what the pair wants to do and provide ample support for it. I feel like looking for UG cards to knit the strategy together more explictly is unnecessary, though; the three I run do great work in the UG deck that wants them, and they all contribute to it nicely and offer it rich lines of play. I'd suggest trying to force the pair real soon, or perhaps even try building the pair out of my cube for some inspiration; you might be surprised by how fun it can be once you stop looking for the archetype angle and embrace the tempo-beats!
Yeah I'll take a crack at your cube, or even better (because I'm lazy), could you post a tempo decklist?
If you're playing tempo, and you hit a bounce spell off Shardless Agent, isn't that awesome? It's like man-o'-war.
Maybe this is a good ramp color pair?
If you're playing tempo, and you hit a bounce spell off Shardless Agent, isn't that awesome? It's like man-o'-war.
Maybe this is a good ramp color pair?
In UG, my paper cube runs kiora, edric, snakeform, mystic snake, and trygon predator.
However, in CT-only cubes, i've tried stuff like zameck guildmage and a 1/1 counter theme, or various flash guys like horizon chimera with extra flashers in U and G. You can also run juicy ramp targets in UG like progenitor mimic, then add simic signet or kiora's follower to hint harder. Or you could go the graveyard route with tracker's instincts. Of course, it all kinda depends on your power level. Ive always found shardless agent to be bad in blue cube decks though.
However, in CT-only cubes, i've tried stuff like zameck guildmage and a 1/1 counter theme, or various flash guys like horizon chimera with extra flashers in U and G. You can also run juicy ramp targets in UG like progenitor mimic, then add simic signet or kiora's follower to hint harder. Or you could go the graveyard route with tracker's instincts. Of course, it all kinda depends on your power level. Ive always found shardless agent to be bad in blue cube decks though.
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
Yeah, i always had the same experience with shardless: always want to run counters in those ug tempo decks
another vote for Shardless Agent (and really, cascade in general) being awkward in cube, particularly in blue
Edric is great for the UG tempo decks. he turns all of your mana dorks into Ophidians, when you don't have a use for their acceleration anymore - or even when you do! he provides the strongest reason to splash either U or G, if you're already in the other colour.
Mystic Snake is great in theory, with instant speed blink and all that, but in practice his mana cost proved awkward. holding up four mana in a tempo deck is a real cost, as these decks run tight on mana, while control and ramp decks don't have a pressing need for a 2/2.
as others have mentioned, Kiora, the Crashing Wave is wonderful, especially in ramp strategies. perfect combination of power level and fun, and she isn't oppressive by any stretch.
speaking of ramp, high end targets that i've run, all of which have been great. these work fine in BUG reanimator, too!
Edric is great for the UG tempo decks. he turns all of your mana dorks into Ophidians, when you don't have a use for their acceleration anymore - or even when you do! he provides the strongest reason to splash either U or G, if you're already in the other colour.
Mystic Snake is great in theory, with instant speed blink and all that, but in practice his mana cost proved awkward. holding up four mana in a tempo deck is a real cost, as these decks run tight on mana, while control and ramp decks don't have a pressing need for a 2/2.
as others have mentioned, Kiora, the Crashing Wave is wonderful, especially in ramp strategies. perfect combination of power level and fun, and she isn't oppressive by any stretch.
speaking of ramp, high end targets that i've run, all of which have been great. these work fine in BUG reanimator, too!
What if you just cut the section entirely?
I have thought about it, but I figured I'd get some answers here first.
Re: Kiora thanks Eric, that looks like a good fit. Not sure about Simic Skyswallower. Isn't it big and shroudy and tramply and flying?
I'm pushing three flavors of UG right now. +1/+1 counters (RUG), blink control (WUG), and graveyard (BUG). But this color combination bleeds into elves as well.
Simic Sky Swallower is my hard to deal with Natural Order target. There's nostalgia with him for me too. Edric, Spymaster of Trest supports elves and various creature based tempo decks. Mystic Snake is legit in blink as my builds are less tempo and more control (plus the reprint is gorgeous). I am a big fan of Snakeform but I don't have room for it at the moment. Master Biomancer is my +1/+1 counter support guy. He's a little slow but has a powerful effect.
I've been wanting to try Prophet of Kruphix. Any more reports on him? He seems juicy in my blink archetype, essentially acting like a pseudo Mirari's Wake on legs with some Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir thrown in for good measure. I can dig it. That 3 toughness though is sort of bogus (but blink can protect him and you'll have mana right away so it may not matter).
Simic Sky Swallower is my hard to deal with Natural Order target. There's nostalgia with him for me too. Edric, Spymaster of Trest supports elves and various creature based tempo decks. Mystic Snake is legit in blink as my builds are less tempo and more control (plus the reprint is gorgeous). I am a big fan of Snakeform but I don't have room for it at the moment. Master Biomancer is my +1/+1 counter support guy. He's a little slow but has a powerful effect.
I've been wanting to try Prophet of Kruphix. Any more reports on him? He seems juicy in my blink archetype, essentially acting like a pseudo Mirari's Wake on legs with some Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir thrown in for good measure. I can dig it. That 3 toughness though is sort of bogus (but blink can protect him and you'll have mana right away so it may not matter).
Yeah Snakeform does a lot of work in my cube. Kiora is great, too.
I've found that Simic Charm is a surprisingly versatile card that is perfect support for tempo.
I've found that Simic Charm is a surprisingly versatile card that is perfect support for tempo.
it depends how fast you can get your Simic Sky Swallower out; ramping to him on turn five or six isn't inherently unfair, as he's still just a large body in the red zone. he's a lot less oppressive than, say, an Elesh Norn or even a Sheoldred. if you have ways to cheat him out earlier than that, he might flirt with unfun territory, though again, as just a pile of stats, he doesn't do anything inherently to help you stabilize the board.
i guess it comes down to how you feel about shroud and hexproof, and i can see reasons for not including him based on that. i think he's actually below the curve for most people here nowadays, though, myself included, and is the weakest of the three ramp targets i linked above.
i guess it comes down to how you feel about shroud and hexproof, and i can see reasons for not including him based on that. i think he's actually below the curve for most people here nowadays, though, myself included, and is the weakest of the three ramp targets i linked above.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
I mean Sphinx of Jwar Isle was annoying, but never insane. SSS is essentially the same card except it doesn't get stonewalled by lingering souls 
What if, instead of focusing on cards specifically, we focus on what we want decks containing U and G to do in the abstract?
I really like the charms in almost all the colors. And cards like that have a ton of play to them. So I run many of them even if they don't fit specific themes simply because of the versatility they bring.
Pushing archetypes is all well and good. I support that line of thinking, but there is something to just providing a dynamic list of cards and letting guys invent things. Cards with multiple modes like the charms do this well. Nothing makes me happier than seeing someone take a color in a direction I never intended. So I've tried not to be overly heavy handed with the forcing specific things in colors.
I certainly encourage themes, but it's all pretty loosey-goosey now and I like it that way. You want to make a Naya control deck? By all means. Make me a believer I say. I hope I get crushed by it.
Pushing archetypes is all well and good. I support that line of thinking, but there is something to just providing a dynamic list of cards and letting guys invent things. Cards with multiple modes like the charms do this well. Nothing makes me happier than seeing someone take a color in a direction I never intended. So I've tried not to be overly heavy handed with the forcing specific things in colors.
I certainly encourage themes, but it's all pretty loosey-goosey now and I like it that way. You want to make a Naya control deck? By all means. Make me a believer I say. I hope I get crushed by it.
Does anybody have a decklist for ug tempo?
Grillo_Parlante
Contributor
I've been using the multi-color section as a sort of flex section, where the cards are there to provide prompts to players of differnt directions they could go in the draft, that might not have been obvious to them. Sort of trying to recreate the feeling of opening a pack with interesting rares. Its been fun so far.
UG VALUE
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This is a really basic list but IMO some of the keys of the deck are inevitability that scales up with the tempo you buy with your bounces and cheap blocks (lorescale coatl, curse of predation, scute mob, etc) and enough variety between tricks and counterspells that you can temporarily outgun aggro decks or stumble midrange enough to reach lethal. I like the archetype because it uses a lot of flexible cards and can play very differently every match.
I feel like Wizards has been doing that with the "uncommon tie-in archetype card" in their gold sections lately. Just look at Origins- some of 'em are pretty boring, but I've caught myself more than once using a sealed pool generator, ignoring dragon fodders, then seeing the red/black dog in my gold and rethinking things. Or similar.
I run Coatl + Courser + Shardless + bucket of Brainstorms in my cube, I like UG as weird spell + creature interactions.
Running 5, 6, and 7 drops in the UG section kind of says "you only get rewarded if you go ramp in this combination", which is fine. I mean, my RB section probably says "you only get rewarded if you play aggro", it's just a decision you have to make.
Running 5, 6, and 7 drops in the UG section kind of says "you only get rewarded if you go ramp in this combination", which is fine. I mean, my RB section probably says "you only get rewarded if you play aggro", it's just a decision you have to make.
I've been wondering about UG as well in my Cube. I really want UG tempo to be a thing, but it's hard to make it work. My Simic section right now:
We had a draft on Sunday where I made a sort of Grixis Tempo/Control deck that had the likes of Pestermiteand Man-o'-War do a ton of work. I really really like how Pestermite played that day, might bump it up to two along with the additions of Harbinger of the Tides and Bounding Krasis and see if I can make something happen. I feel like in theory, a curve of T1 Dork --> T2 Pestermite --> T3 Bounce dude --> T4 Bounce dude would be really really effective and cool to see in action.
We had a draft on Sunday where I made a sort of Grixis Tempo/Control deck that had the likes of Pestermiteand Man-o'-War do a ton of work. I really really like how Pestermite played that day, might bump it up to two along with the additions of Harbinger of the Tides and Bounding Krasis and see if I can make something happen. I feel like in theory, a curve of T1 Dork --> T2 Pestermite --> T3 Bounce dude --> T4 Bounce dude would be really really effective and cool to see in action.
Is the title a pun? or am I reading too far into this?
I like Jason's flavor above with brainstorm + Coatl and Courser. That's pretty nifty. I may have to try that.
So I went the other way with it. Combo blink basically. If I get a fast start, cool. It plays out like a tempo list for the most part. If not, also cool. I will go long game, drop a wall to slow you down (Courser works great for that) and bounce all your shit on turn 6+ with some silly engine. THEN kill you with my 2/2's..
The +1/+1 counter theme is more Gruul than Simic, but Simic adds some graft guys and Bow on Nylea which is a ton of fun and has a lot of uses (give it a try if you haven't already - it's a green Trading Post). BUG is more Dimir than Simic too, so graveyard predominantly. Green is really just there for support (Genesis, et all). Tasigur is the closest thing to a true UG card.
So I went the other way with it. Combo blink basically. If I get a fast start, cool. It plays out like a tempo list for the most part. If not, also cool. I will go long game, drop a wall to slow you down (Courser works great for that) and bounce all your shit on turn 6+ with some silly engine. THEN kill you with my 2/2's.
. The +1/+1 counter theme is more Gruul than Simic, but Simic adds some graft guys and Bow on Nylea which is a ton of fun and has a lot of uses (give it a try if you haven't already - it's a green Trading Post). BUG is more Dimir than Simic too, so graveyard predominantly. Green is really just there for support (Genesis, et all). Tasigur is the closest thing to a true UG card.
Yes.
