whydirt's peasant cube

whydirt

whydirt

My cube! - http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/251
Draft it! - http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/251

Non-power max 390 card peasant cube designed to hopefully create interesting choices in draft and gameplay. I've definitely looked at some of the ideas and cubes around here to draw inspiration (the Penny-Pincher Cube, the Draw A Card Cube, and the Eldrazi Domain Cube as well as others have all helped, even if their ideas don't show up directly here).

Supported Themes by Color Pair

{W}{U} - Flyers, investigate​
{U}{B} - Self-mill, control​
{B}{R} - Sacrifice, aggro, control​
{R}{G} - Werewolf/wolf tribal​
{G}{W} - Convoke, delirium​
​
{W}{B} - Sacrifice, lifedrain, delirium​
{U}{R} - Spells matter, surge​
{B}{G} - Sacrifice, self-mill, delirium​
{R}{W} - Tokens, double strike, aggro​
{G}{U} - Domain, self-mill​
​
Other things to note:
  • Singleton - I'm certainly willing to experiment, but much of my love of cube comes from the variety of cards in the pool, so for now everything is a one-of (technically there are a few functional reprints of a few mana utility cards)
  • 390 card pool to hopefully create a sweet spot between consistency and variety; my most common playgroup size tends to be six players, but I want to support up to ten (with thirteen card packs) if the stars align
  • Designed to be relatively newbie friendly; no "free" instant speed spells, exclusion of cards that favor veteran players (morph)
  • Exclusion of the best ETB midrange value creatures (Cloudgoat Ranger, Mulldrifter, Shriekmaw, Flametongue Kavu) in order to separate beatdown and control decks a bit as well as give synergistic decks a bigger chance to shine
  • Other common/uncommon GRBS (Sol Ring, Skullclamp, Loxodon Warhammer, etc) has been excluded as well
  • Onslaught cycling lands and mana trinkets included to smooth out mana and color; the trinkets should hopefully help make Quiet Contemplation/Skywise Teachings a viable deck, but that will be seen with playtesting
  • Rather than worry about dumb 2/1s for 1, aggro in this cube will generally lead off with a utility 1-drop or a beatdown 2-drop
  • A few pieces of premium removal in each color, the rest should be limited in some way (speed, cost, target restrictions, etc)
  • Artifacts can ramp or fix mana, but not both at the same time
 
whydirt

whydirt

Decided to just rebuild my peasant cube rather than start a completely new project. I'll PM Jason here in a minute to update my thread title.

If you check the list using the link in the OP you'll see that it is still quite rough - most colors need some cuts, the gold section hasn't been filled out, and green definitely needs a second look.

I'm open to input, so take a look and don't be shy!
 
whydirt

whydirt

Design Blurb - Zendikons!



I'm including this almost-cycle for a couple reasons:
  1. They play into white's enchantments theme. All of these can be tutored up from Heliod's Pilgrim and Totem-Guide Hartebeest and boost Blessed Spirits, Ethereal Armor, and Sage's Reverie
  2. They also play nicely with Quiet Contemplation/Skywise Teachings in blue. Creatures that up the prowess trigger count are great!
  3. Give additional use for the extra lands green decks likely want to play as well as providing new landfall triggers when they die.
  4. They have cool flavor, good artwork, and lack bad flavor text!
I do wish the white one wasn't a lame defender, but breaking up cycles is sometimes a necessity in cube!

:( :( :(
 
Ferritovore

Ferritovore

Chris Taylor said:
If you like those, the Genju cycle from kamigawa might also be worth a look:
Genju of the Realm[/ci]

Okay maybe not that last one. The white one specifically is cool because it has the old lifelink wording, meaning it stacks, allowing you to activate it multiple times to gain lots of life
Click to expand...
Wow, Spires has really gorgeous art! which is a nice counterpoint to the gold one
 
whydirt

whydirt

re: Genjus

I've actually run the blue, red, and green ones before. The black one is too mana intensive since it you need 3 mana, once you include the enchanted land, to even attack, and you need to pay an extra {B}{B} to just match the size of the green one. I don't care for the "loophole" on the white Genju since I tend to play with casuals who aren't boned up enough on the rules to take advantage of it.

I think the blue one is the one I'd be most likely to run again in the future. Thanks for the reminder on them!
 
whydirt

whydirt

I'm changing up the enchantments theme in white a bit. I was relying too heavily on Sphere of Safety, which is bad since it's 1) a singleton with no way to tutor for it and 2) there are few ways for black or red to interact with it compared to auras. It's also probably too swingy to be truly enjoyable - I feel like there will be too many games where it does nothing or locks out an opponent but doesn't provide a win condition on its own. Instead, I want white control decks to have more enchantment related value cards that can help you out-value your opponent in a long game.

Out:


In:




---

I'm actually pretty excited for Font of Fortunes since I feel like the cheap initial casting cost should play nicely with trying to make Quiet Contemplation and Skywise Teachings work.

Along these lines, I'm thinking of testing Vile Requiem as a finisher for black control. It's a cool, flavorful card that can certainly end a stalled board to clear the path for victory. I do wish it used a different limitation than the non-black clause, since it has the landwalk syndrome of being arbitrarily good or bad against an opponent without much strategy on either players part, but I'm willing to overlook it on cards that I want for other reasons.
 
whydirt

whydirt

I am thinking about adding Clutch of Currents and thought of a rules question about Zendikons and awaken.

I'm pretty sure if you cast a Zendikon on an already awoken land the enchantment's p/t setting overrides the base of 0/0 from the awaken spell. But I'm less clear about what happens if you awaken a land that's already enchanted with a Zendikon? Does the fact that the enchantment is a persistent effect mean that the 0/0 part doesn't matter or is it a complete non-bo? I'm assuming the answer is layers, but I don't know enough to say how and why.
 
whydirt

whydirt

Thanks!

---

A This or That before I go to bed:

vs.

Black is the color I need to make the most cuts in and I think I could trim down on sac outlets as part of that goal. I don't think my cube needs two of this effect (it might not need either one, but that's another discussion), so one is likely getting sidelined for now. I'm leaning toward keeping Reap because it can be used with surprise in response to removal, but I'm willing to hear arguments in favor of Rites as a long run value engine.
 
Ferritovore

Ferritovore

Damn, I just bought Rites and now I'm wishing I got Reap. I think Reap is the clear choice because it goes in any deck as a response to removal. Then again Rites can be an ongoing deterrent to removal, but only if you keep the mana up for it... yeah, I'd say Reap.
 
safra

safra

Rites is much stronger and more interesting to boot. Altar's Reap really sucks outside of a sacrifice-centric deck and even there, wow, you spent a card and change and two mana to get two cards. Everywhere else you're paying mana to kill your guy, so it's, like, really conditional Cycling.

You can activate Rites in response to removal, too, so that argument isn't strong.
 
whydirt

whydirt

I'll give Rites the starting position then!

Here's a cross-post of mine from MTGS in response to some folks there asking me about my design goals. I figured since I took the time to write it up I might as well stick it here too.

---

Some of my design goals are in the updated OP, but I'll elaborate a bit to expand and clarify what I want to do. Generally, I want to slow the game down from traditional peasant cubes by roughly a turn and increase the role of synergy and sequencing over raw power level. More selfishly, I just want to cube with the cards and decks I like, and many of the cards I enjoy just don't have a place in my old cube. I understand that not everyone will like what I'm doing, and that's okay. To meet my overall goals, here are the strategies I'm working to implement:


1) Beatdown decks start on turn two

This means I don't have to push turn 1 mindless beaters in aggro decks. Instead, beatdown decks can optionally lead off with utility 1-drops, but real threats won't start landing until turn two. Taplands are no longer tilted so heavily in favor of slower decks and should be viable fixing for almost everyone. Giving everyone an extra draw step or two should mean fewer "non-games" where someone was flooded or mana/color screwed without a chance to turn things around.

2) Flametongue, Shriekmaw, Mulldrifter, Cloudgoat, etc get the axe

While none of these cards are unbeatable or literally good in every deck like Sol Ring, they're still way above the general power level of C/U creatures. A Flametongue Kavu that cost 4R would probably still be one of red's best 5-drops, for example. I'm honestly just bored of them, and since cube is one of the main ways I play Magic these days I'd rather not be bored. I know other people still love them and that's cool, but I'm ready for something different.

3) So do Swords, Path, Lightning Bolt, Doom Blade, etc

With aggro decks a half-step slower and fewer midrange value creatures running around, removal doesn't need to be as strong for control to be viable. Each color might get 1-2 pieces of premium removal like Pacifism or Murder, but otherwise, I want there to be some cost of doing business - either higher mana cost, being sorcery speed, or having another significant drawback or limitation. For example, I'm cutting Path and Swords, but keeping Soul Snare because A) it can be returned with Auramancer, Lotus-Eye Mystics, or Griffin Dreamfinder and B) all of these cards generally favor a slower strategy without forcing you to be a control deck 100% of the time. This also opens up some room for combat tricks to be the main way to interact during combat and make green's fight cards more viable so that it doesn't have to splash just to get some removal.

4) Increase the volume on explicit themes and archetypes

Slowing things down and decreasing the generic power level leaves more room for synergy decks to breathe. While I don't want drafts to be on rails where the token deck drafter can wheel every token card because they're only good in one deck, I do want cards to rise and fall in value based on what you have already drafted. For example, Parasitic Implant is too slow and costs too much mana for regular cubes, but here it serves multiple roles for B/W decks by being tutored with Heliod's Pilgrim or Totem-Guide Hartebeest or returned to hand with the Auramancer effects listed before. Even outside of its synergy with white, it leaves body behind for sac outlets that black can happily use in some decks, but less so in others. It also happens to be dripping with cool flavor, which is a plus for me.

Even outside of explicit themes, I like conditional value mechanics like raid and morbid that don't necessarily need to be built around in draft, but reward good gameplay decisions. This is why I'm running the generally weaker, but more interesting Blood Ogre over Splatter Thug.


---

This list isn't exhaustive, but should give a general idea of where I'm heading. I'm sure I'll have plenty of kinks to work out once I've got my initial list ironed out and can get some playtesting in, but I think it should be a fun experiment. Let me know if you have any specific questions or have some feedback on these ideas! Thanks!
 
whydirt

whydirt

Guild Chat - Orzhov

My plan is to run 3 or 4 gold spells in each guild. I prefer guild cards to fit one of three categories. The first are cards that are strong compared to monocolor options, but nudge the player toward a particular strategy that suits the color pair. Cards in this group should usually be threats, but a few flavorful answers are acceptable (Ground Assault, Pillory of the Sleepless). The second are those that provide a unique effect for that color pair that doesn't really exist in monocolor (Recoil gives Dimir access to conditional enchantment/artifact "removal"). Finally, a few pairs will likely get charms that offer modal options that include narrow, but useful effects like enchantment or artifact hate.

Here are some thoughts on Orzhov commons and uncommons:

Cartel Aristocrat - Cool card for sure, but I'm not sure this is needed with the plethora of other sac outlets available.

Orzhov Charm - It's funny to see this now because the first mode was clearly geared toward potentially making B/W bestow a thing in constructed. Too narrow for this cube.

Putrid Warrior - Cool art and the old frame. I'd like this more if there were better payoff cards for lifegain than Ajani's Pridemate effects at C/U.

Tidehollow Sculler - Another sweet card, but kind of boring for my goals given that it's just a Mesmeric Fiend with more beef. If black ever cares about artifacts in a new set, I might give this another look.

Tithe Drinker - I love, love, love extort as a mechanic. It plays great in both beatdown and control decks, rewards good sequencing, provides a late-game mana sink, and has excellent flavor.

Underworld Coinsmith - Plays into my enchantments theme in white, which is a plus. The card does remind me of how poorly executed constellation was in Theros block and my heart cries a bit.

Vizkopa Guildmage - I love the guildmage cycle generally, but I think the activation costs are a bit high on this one for my environment. As-is, I don't think I have the lifegain density in my cube to make this worthwhile, but it could get a second look down the road.

Zealous Persecution - Anthem plus removal!

Blood-Cursed Knight - Another enchantment payoff card, but I think Coinsmith is more interesting in terms of providing lines of play.

Drana's Emissary - Efficient, but boring. See Kingpin's Pet.

Harsh Sustenance - Payoff for going wide that's not just using black's sac engines. On my list for revisiting.

Kingpin's Pet - Generally worse, but more interesting than Drana's Emissary. This would be my guild Wind Drake of choice.

Mortify - *yawn*

Pillory of the Sleepless - Now this is how you make fun guild-based removal!

Sin Collector - Efficient, spikey card. Good, but I don't think it's what I'm looking for.

Souls of the Faultless - I love Wall of Souls and would run this in a gold-heavy environment, but not here.

Blind Hunter - I'm trying to avoid keyword bloat, so haunt is on the outs for the foreseeable future.

Debt to the Deathless - Sweet art!

One Thousand Lashes - Not so sweet art

Maw of the Obzedat - Probably the card most likely to come in that I'm not currently running. Sac outlet plus anthem effect is basically what I want this pair to do, but I really wish it was a 2/2 (or maybe even a 2/3 or 3/2) for 2WB.

Sentry of the Underworld - Pass

Vizkopa Confessor - I wish the body was just a touch bigger (1/4 or 2/3) or the casting cost was one less mana.

---

Of these, I plan to run Tithe Drinker, Kingpin's Pet, and Pillory of the Sleepless. I'll probably add either Underworld Coinsmith or Maw of the Obzedat as my 4th card, but I'm not 100% on that yet.
 
safra

safra

I've never really liked Pillory, you're Cubing a slightly stronger Arrest that goes in much fewer decks. If I could recommend any {B}{W} cards I'd absolutely suggest:
Tidehollow Sculler (I love this card so much three or four other people can probably tell you why I like it. 'mesmeric fiend but beefier' actually translates to 'mesmeric fiend that meaningfully engages in combat', and it's doing something a lot of BW decks want.)
Kingpin's Pet is a sweet wind drake. If wind drakes are sweet in your Cube you'll be happy with it imo.
Tithe Drinker fucking sucks. Play the 1W guy.
What about the {1}{W/B}{W/B} aura? (Gift of Orzhova?) It's fun and powerful, but I've always wanted an environment where it didn't just get blown out.

I'd also encourage you to reconsider Mortify, any disenchant or shatter effect that makes final 40s is a net plus for your environment. Also, let people make decks that aren't just Extort, yeah? Mortify's a great tool for Esper or Mardu.
 
Grillo_Parlante

Grillo_Parlante

Contributor
Since you are running wind zendikon, and have fertile ground/utopa sprawl with heliod's pilgrim, have you considered freed from the real?

I don't actually think mulldrifter is that powerful. You can't really chain them in cube like you can in constructed formats.

We ran maw of the obzedat for a while, and it didn't see too much action. The sacrifice decks here are a lot more low to the ground, so it was a really awkward mana cost, and didn't really have a deck. Just something to keep in mind.
 
whydirt

whydirt

@Safra:

I really like Pillory. In my experience it helps give aggro decks reach in a color pair that often lacks it as well as provide a source of pressure for slower decks that combines well with Blood Artist triggers, extort, etc. B/W lifedrain was probably one of my favorite and at least personally most successful decks in my "powered" peasant cube. You might be right on Sculler, but for now I want to see how the cube plays without it. I'm excluding hybrid cards for my initial build. I may let some in after playtest.

re: Mortify - There just aren't that many enchantments in peasant that need to get blown up, especially since I'm basically not running any Control Magic effects. Auras can be removed through white's blink effects in a pinch.

---

@Grillo

I agree that Mulldrifter is the least offensive of the ETB brotherhood, but it's just such a ubiquitous card in cube at all levels that I'd like to avoid it for now. I certainly reserve the right to change my mind if/when I realize my cube would be better off with it around. Freed from the Real is definitely neat! I'll keep my eye on it for sure.

As a general disclaimer, I need to admit that I've not gotten to playtest this current iteration yet outside of CubeTutor drafts (which actually do help a decent amount, but are still no substitute for actual play). I need to order/proxy the cards I'm missing as well as track down some players since I've actually moved states since I last cubed with other people in the real world.
 
Alfonzo Bonzo

Alfonzo Bonzo

Quiet contemplation/teachings is quite slow and controlly - depends on what you're trying to do? Prowess is more aggressive and beatdown-y.

The 'good' blue prowess creatures in peasant mostly want you to have some evasion, so quiet contemplation might be okay there I guess.?



They all want you to be aggressive and would benefit from cards that give you evasion, particularly those that get cast multiple times:



You might also want to include



Are you planning on using extort cards as well? Some nice overlap there.
 
whydirt

whydirt

Here's a theoretical colorless big mana package. Not sure I'd ever run it, but I wanted to get this down on paper. I wouldn't use every card in each category, but wanted to be thorough.

Colorless Ramp
Mind Stone
Basalt Monolith
Worn Powerstone
Unstable Obelisk
Hedron Archive
Thran Dynamo
Dreamstone Hedron
Palladium Myr
Kozilek's Channeler
Skittering Invasion
Eldrazi Temple
Crystal Vein
Spawning Bed

Monoloth, Powerstone, and Dynamo are likely to be a bit too much in terms of effectively skipping turns. I really like Unstable Obelisk as having dual roles of both ramp and mana sink. Eldrazi Temple is likely too poisonous of an enabler.

Colorless Payoff Cards
Deathless Behemoth
Bane of Bala Ged
Ruin Processor
Breaker of Armies
Eldrazi Devastator
Ulamog's Crusher
Artisan of Kozilek
Loreseeker's Stone
Scour from Existence



If I ran this I'd like to push it toward red as much as possible to give that color a bit more depth beyond pure aggression. The idea would be to feel as close to a "combo" deck as my format would allow where you're mostly just racing to do your thing before your opponent kills you.

Mana
Generator Servant
Soulbright Flamekin
Grinning Ignus
Treasonous Ogre
Emrakul's Hatcher
Seething Song
Spawning Breath

Haste Enablers
Lightning Mauler
Anger
Hammerhand
Reckless Charge


These can go into other decks, which is good for keeping things from getting too poisonous.

Red Payoff Cards
Valakut Invoker
Cinder Elemental
Rolling Thunder

Obviously there are a billion x-spells I can also run, but I think these are the payoff cards I'd start with. Again, the focus is on cards that can go into other slower red decks.

Digging
Faithless Looting
Tormenting Voice
Magmatic Insight

Cycling
Smoldering Crater
Blasted Landscape
Chartooth Cougar
Ridge Rannet
Spark Spray
Fiery Fall
Slice and Dice

I like cyclers as another way to dig for enablers or action depending on the board state and your hand.
 
whydirt

whydirt

My new plan for fixing is to just make the 15th card in each booster a copy of Evolving Wilds. It's my favorite fixing land of all time due to how elegant of a design it is. It's playable in any deck; fuels Brainstorm, landfall, delve, and domain; and cuts down on the learning/memory space for new players.

If/when I get Champion on CubeTutor I'll set it up that it can be drafted that way specifically, but for now I just stuck enough copies on there to give the right ratio and let the chips fall where they may.
 
Gozmit97

Gozmit97

Considering that black oberlaps more with your enchantment theme than with your spellsmatter theme, i'd go with the Enchantment. Prowess also still triggers of it. If you want the straight up more powerfull card, definentely go for Drag down. It might also be difficult to get many different colors in an enchantment/spells deck, so that's a thing to consider as well.

Really like your cube. I am working on my own peasent, and thinking of doing something along the lines of what you have going on here. Good luck with it :D
 
whydirt

whydirt



I'm concerned that this is just a bit too far above the power curve compared to the rest of the cube. Playing this turn 4 and then having turn 5 Evolving Wilds + fetch to swing for 10 trample damage does not seem like a corner case scenario given that I'm seeding each pack with an Evolving Wilds as my fixing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top