Extremely poor. You can easily spare one mana. It's impossible to spare 2 mana on top of other costs.For a loam deck that wants cycling lands for repeatable card draw, how much worse is cyclingthan cycling
General Fight Club
- Thread starter Jason Waddell
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Both take so long to resolve that I'd never mess with either, but I prefer Gifts.vs
Gifts is a guaranteed double Entomb when you're doing filthy things, and also more interesting when you are playing it legitimately.
but also second what Brad said - they take forever to resolve so just play a Fact or Fiction or something.
but also second what Brad said - they take forever to resolve so just play a Fact or Fiction or something.
But isn't this totally dependent on cube speed/power level?
Doubling the cost of something makes the variation a little bit more harsh than a smaller price jump (like 5 to 6). It’s going to be a lot easier to fit 1 mana into a turn sequence in a lather number of environmental contexts than it would be to first 2 mana for the cycling. This is especially true if you also want to fit the loam or multiple cycling triggers into the mix, and potentially cast another spell that you draw.
That being said, I don’t think “fixing land with a cycling buyout mode” and “tapped mono land with an aggressively costed cycling cost” really fight each other for space. If I was doing loam I’d do both now that the fully cycle is complete for both.
Sadly, the cycle is not complete. We have 7 of 10 bicycle lands. I mean, I have had 10/10 proxed somewhere for years, but officially.
My solution for this topic is to keep Tranquil Thicket but not the other four once I add the bicycles. Maybe also Barren Moor. Blue and red have many looting/rummage efects to to turn recurred lands in hand into carddraw. White wasn't a factor for that theme anyway.
This got me to double take. Maybe it's just coming from memories of constructed formats and having never resolved a Gifts or Intuition in an unpowered cube, but I've always found FoF to be slower to resolve.
Like, Gifts/Intuition, you're thinking about piles when you draft and build your deck, and when you give your opponent the pile it's pretty obvious that they've either lost on the spot or there's a tight avenue to navigate with their available interaction. FoF on the other hand is a new set of highly contextual decisions for an opponent every time it resolves, even if those decisions are likely lower stakes.
That said I would usually agree with the conclusion that FoF is the one to run. It's the most fun card of the three, especially with experienced players. In the context of Erik's cube, however, I think I'd pick Gifts. It's slightly more intriguing/flexible in that it can be a double Entomb or an Intuition when you don't want to find four cards, and I don't think shaving a single mana off what is already a fantastic card is make or break in his list.
Yeah, I probably should have said "a Memory Deluge or something" - we're not hard up for those these days really - because FoF in particular also takes a full turning of the Wheel of Time and your civilization has become legend, then myth, then forgotten by the time you resolve it.
(also known as "half as long as a Sensei's Divining Top activation")
(also known as "half as long as a Sensei's Divining Top activation")
I cube with both people who try to eke out every tiny bit of advantage they can on every possible decision, and people who are just now discovering the concept of reading for the first time (I love all of them I promise). Fact or Fiction (And Sphinx of Uthuun) have absolutely tarpitted our EDH nights on multiple occasions.
Actual Dilemma:
Which two of the following for a mid-power cube:
Actual Dilemma:
Which two of the following for a mid-power cube:
2 is so much more than 1, so I pick Snipe over Whelp because it's significantly faster/better at doing the exact thing it does (and the body's basically equally marginal, even if I do like flying)
As for Artillerist... well, if you're considering it, you should probably play it, because you have the support for it. Like, I wouldn't even consider it because I don't have the necessary mass of cyclers, so if it's still on your list of "could be good" then it probably would be! I hope that makes sense.
As for Artillerist... well, if you're considering it, you should probably play it, because you have the support for it. Like, I wouldn't even consider it because I don't have the necessary mass of cyclers, so if it's still on your list of "could be good" then it probably would be! I hope that makes sense.
Well it kind of depends if you prefer low floor & high ceiling or high floor & low ceiling. I want to say Spelleater Wolverine just because I don't like payoffs that I have to draw in the right order, especially since your guttersnipe is prone to getting removed since your deck has a lot of spells that they can't use their removal spells on. Fiery Inscription would be a solid alternative if not for the ring baggage.
Of the three I think I'd go with guttersnipe.
Of the three I think I'd go with guttersnipe.
vs
I think Intuition piles are a lot harder to pull off and that is probably a skill issue. I would lean towards Gifts for that reason.
As for these vs FoF, if you don't mind the time needed resolving them, I think they are significantly better.
FoF is "only" ever a card draw spell with GY synergies (a very sweet one, don't get me wrong). However Gifts and Intuition have the options to be tutors, value cards or both in a heavy GY environment.
With proper support (which is mostly Green), you can fetch a wide variety of permanents
You also have ways to recur cards
As for value, if you run a combination of these, you will love playing Gifts
With enough GY aggro stuff, you could also run it in a more aggressive GY deck as top end to reload (Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis, Bloodghast, Gravecrawler, Scrapheap Scrounger, Anger, Detective's Phoenix, Scrapwork Mutt, Vengevine, ...)
tl;dr: If you are heavy GY, Gifts is a fantastic tutor or value engine. If only slightly invested in GY stuff, FoF is likely better.