Dom Harvey
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Clear GW #1 for power-maxers but a very neat card in general IMO
General [MSH] Marvel Super Heroes
- Thread starter ravnic
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Clear GW #1 for power-maxers but a very neat card in general IMO
Am I the only one who feels like a lot of the designs are just kinda... bland? Maybe it's my aversion of Hero and Villain as card types that makes me less interested in the designs, but man it feels like a lot of stuff we've seen before.
Some cards that are kinda neat, I guess?
(That last one is Storm, Windrider, and should pop up soonish).
And there's also
which is kinda gross in terms of powercreep - yeah, sure, let's take Mirrorworks, make it a 2/4 for
with the stupid-ass Villain subtype, then animate the tokens, why the heck not?
Some cards that are kinda neat, I guess?
(That last one is Storm, Windrider, and should pop up soonish).
And there's also
which is kinda gross in terms of powercreep - yeah, sure, let's take Mirrorworks, make it a 2/4 for
with the stupid-ass Villain subtype, then animate the tokens, why the heck not?
I've recently had a thought. They might've finally strip mined Magic's potential to its limits over 30+ years. There are no new cards to make, because everything has been done. That's why we get weird twists on mechanics that were perfectly fine, just to present it as new. Sneak in place of ninjutsu, harmonize instead of flashback, cloak instead of morph etc. Okay, some might have power creep or rule engine reasons, fine.
I think Mark Rosewater said somewhere, that it's fun to find the way to represent existing characters in Magic rules. And I indeed have a nice surprise sometimes, when I see a familiar character with Magic mechanics and think "of course, that makes sense". At this point Magic engine should support pretty much anything you could think of. Problem is, I recognize maybe 5% of UB characters, and find 100 variations of Spiderman boring as hell. Most "legendary" chars are just stat beatsticks to fill the quota you'd forget in a day.
What I'm trying to say, is that adapting existing media is a new challenge to them, very different to the usual "what new could we even do in Magic at this point". It kinda has potential to prolong strip mining of magic. I've also seen a theory, that mainstream hypermarkets would have a ready nostalgia IP product in a form of tried and true Magic: the Gathering game. Instead of some movie promo tie in game that will be forgotten in a year.
I play cube exclusively, so I'm not bothered that much, but also unexcited about constructed formats. I'm still anti-UB, but now I realize it could be vital to the longevity of the game in the current release schedule. Of course, you should blame Hasbro executives for the stupid release schedule. Shame that actually interesting designs are from the fabled plane of New York now. I'll have to make custom in-universe proxies If I'd want to play with them, but I'm not opposed to UB existing now. Just would be a lot cooler if it didn't.
At this point I doubt it's possible to make a truly breakthrough Magic set within the boundaries of the game as it is. But do we really want triple-sided cards, initiative 2.0, physical side-decks or permanent stat upgrades with each passing match? I think most people here want simple yet exciting non-parasitic glue cards for various themes, but I sometimes think everything has been done at this point. Maybe a couple actually neat new designs per set.
I think Mark Rosewater said somewhere, that it's fun to find the way to represent existing characters in Magic rules. And I indeed have a nice surprise sometimes, when I see a familiar character with Magic mechanics and think "of course, that makes sense". At this point Magic engine should support pretty much anything you could think of. Problem is, I recognize maybe 5% of UB characters, and find 100 variations of Spiderman boring as hell. Most "legendary" chars are just stat beatsticks to fill the quota you'd forget in a day.
What I'm trying to say, is that adapting existing media is a new challenge to them, very different to the usual "what new could we even do in Magic at this point". It kinda has potential to prolong strip mining of magic. I've also seen a theory, that mainstream hypermarkets would have a ready nostalgia IP product in a form of tried and true Magic: the Gathering game. Instead of some movie promo tie in game that will be forgotten in a year.
I play cube exclusively, so I'm not bothered that much, but also unexcited about constructed formats. I'm still anti-UB, but now I realize it could be vital to the longevity of the game in the current release schedule. Of course, you should blame Hasbro executives for the stupid release schedule. Shame that actually interesting designs are from the fabled plane of New York now. I'll have to make custom in-universe proxies If I'd want to play with them, but I'm not opposed to UB existing now. Just would be a lot cooler if it didn't.
At this point I doubt it's possible to make a truly breakthrough Magic set within the boundaries of the game as it is. But do we really want triple-sided cards, initiative 2.0, physical side-decks or permanent stat upgrades with each passing match? I think most people here want simple yet exciting non-parasitic glue cards for various themes, but I sometimes think everything has been done at this point. Maybe a couple actually neat new designs per set.
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Yeah no I would be willing to bet money that the reason no one is jumping to post about this set on most platforms is because the cards are mostly terrible.
Riptide Lab is famously a powermax cube forum, there are no curators here who could be interested in a card like Shuri, Wakandan Inventor, Loki, God of Mischief, Elektra, Daughter of the Hand, Shuri, the Black Panther, or the new dual land cycle that encourages playing basic lands. Regardless, it was mostly in jest, I know there's a market for it. I do agree though, the cards are terrible.
Really surprised this can hit lands. I don't think I have space for it at 3, but I think it's a neat card with a lot of decision-making to it, so I do kind of want to.
I don't care too much for this card except how I made something very similar for Onder's Ravnica contest and he said it would be too oppressive so I find it funny that it now exists in paper. It is kind of appealing to me just because undercosted beaters with drawbacks are funny and it's a decent unearth target, but I doubt I'll bother finding space, I'd probably rather play Rotting Regisaur.
The cards are a weird bunch, for sure. I find the pushed ones absolutely sauceless--shit, why not make your 1UG creature that clones a card every turn a 4/4 with vigilance? If you want a green Knightly Valor, sure, it'll grow AND let you play lands off the top of your library! Fuck it, Savannah Lions isn't good enough, make one that grows and draws you cards if you put it in the right deck. What the hell is this? When I was a kid, we cast Rampaging Baloths and LIKED it.
That said, some of the lower-powered stuff is genuinely sweet. I'm pissed that they're powercreeping old stuff, but at least Dark Deed is an interesting sidegrade to Drown in Ichor despite Grasp of Darkness being way swaggier than either.
The exalted stuff seems like a ton of fun. Black Widow, Double Agent--I hate having to type that--seems fascinating, but like, c'mon. At minimum she's a 3-mana 3/2 first strike menace deathtoucher. Bring back Vampire Nighthawk!
The Valiant-adjacent stuff is pretty good, and I love the templating (though Kamala Khan is kinda a nightmare to parse if you don't have the "power = cards in hand" shortcut ready to go).
Plans are all excellent, no notes. I might actually run some of these.
They're Zendikar Quests but actually good (not you, Zektar Shrine Expedition. you're perfect.)
Drogskol Reaver is good?!
Dookie to type, but a fun finisher and an interesting spin on Bolas' Citadel.[/CI]
edit: never mind, you have to type all of these names exactly every single time you want to talk about them. Fuck this, I'm back to being a hater.
That said, some of the lower-powered stuff is genuinely sweet. I'm pissed that they're powercreeping old stuff, but at least Dark Deed is an interesting sidegrade to Drown in Ichor despite Grasp of Darkness being way swaggier than either.
The exalted stuff seems like a ton of fun. Black Widow, Double Agent--I hate having to type that--seems fascinating, but like, c'mon. At minimum she's a 3-mana 3/2 first strike menace deathtoucher. Bring back Vampire Nighthawk!
The Valiant-adjacent stuff is pretty good, and I love the templating (though Kamala Khan is kinda a nightmare to parse if you don't have the "power = cards in hand" shortcut ready to go).
Plans are all excellent, no notes. I might actually run some of these.
They're Zendikar Quests but actually good (not you, Zektar Shrine Expedition. you're perfect.)
Drogskol Reaver is good?!
Dookie to type, but a fun finisher and an interesting spin on Bolas' Citadel.[/CI]
edit: never mind, you have to type all of these names exactly every single time you want to talk about them. Fuck this, I'm back to being a hater.
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Contrary to what I said earlier, they still find mechanical niches to explore. Maybe precisely because of top-down design with new unfamiliar lore instead of Magic canon. I love white prowess, especially with according color pie effects. Some more heroic is also interesting. I was pondering "attacks alone" theme for my first cube with auras, but found support unexciting then.
Shame about Marvel though. I hate how it became the insufferable common denominator for "geek culture". For fantasy IPs I could at least pretend those are from some niche multiverse plane I forgot about.
Shame about Marvel though. I hate how it became the insufferable common denominator for "geek culture". For fantasy IPs I could at least pretend those are from some niche multiverse plane I forgot about.
Will definitely pick up a copy for my ULD. A Legion Extruder effect on a land with all the trinket artifact generation we've gotten in recent years is pretty cool.
Yeah, my only real gripe with the land is that it's a 3/3 Robot Villain named Doombot instead of just being a 3/3 Robot.
(Actually, would it have killed them to make it a Construct? We've gotten almost a hundred Robots over the past couple of years and I'm still not sure why they aren't just Constructs.)
(Actually, would it have killed them to make it a Construct? We've gotten almost a hundred Robots over the past couple of years and I'm still not sure why they aren't just Constructs.)
This card is really sweet. Flash it in to clear a blocker EOT, blink it to tap down more than one body, you can put together a Karakas loop to enable some big swings in combat, and it can also shut down and/or neutralize cards like Sheoldred, the Apocalypse or big Construct tokens. Holding up the two mana lets you bluff a counterspell as well.
This is a really neat way to double up on the Tishana's Tidebinder effect.
God, Marvel and the whole superhero bs is so cringe.
I was on vacation and not using my computer much but I was a little surprised to not see a thread on Reddit for this one. Agreed on the art and on @shamizy's point about how good the Legion Extruder effect is, especially on something that's as hard to deal with as a land. Also agreed on @LadyMapi's point about them not being constructs........or at least golems. I'd even take Assembly-Worker.
I really like The Wonderous Wasp as well. I think the comparisons to Tishana's Tidebender and Train's to as Ty Lee, Chi Blocker on Reddit both make sense but also why I like the card more than both of those. It's cleaner and simpler than the Tidebender while doing much of the same work, though it requires you to be a bit more proactive about it. It's worse than Ty Lee, but it's also one mana less and gets you enough of the card that I think you'll often be happy to have just that, especially when a creature's biggest annoyance is a repeating triggered ability or the like. Art's bad though.
But my favorite card of the set so far:
Samwise the Stouthearted sans Ring baggage. Incredible art. Lifelink! Grabs things that are milled or discarded too, if you need it. I've really struggled to not include Samwise but can seriously not handle the annoyance of a whole reminder card of a mechanic, even if I were to brush it aside during draft with an unfamiliar player or two. This is cleaner, generally better, and very cool.
I ran Mercenary Knight for years (back in my Haakon days) and still keep Bloodrage Brawler ready to swap back in in a moment's notice, so I like a flexible and cool big beater that's hybrid (!!). I think it's a bit whatever for what my Cube is doing now (and certainly on the slow side) but I like Titania, Rugged Rumbler all the same and will pick up a copy to think about if nothing else.
Agent 13, Sharon Carter is not the worst repeatable clue generator, but is not going to make the cut.
Mole Man, Moloid Master is one of the easiest pickups for my Cube, as it makes for a Ramunap Excavator I actually like. The Excavator got cut for being too busted with Strip Mine and Wasteland, then was too weak without them once Strip Mine was cut. At 720 cards, it's was hard to have enough fetch lands to feel like you were doing it, but thanks to the MH3 landscapes and the increase in self-mill, the Mole Man is going to be a great addition, and as others have stated, it feels Magic-y enough! For more powerful Cubes or those with more combo oriented stuff, this is busted with Nadu, but the value here is great regardless.
Goofy ass art, but fascinating piece of cardboard. A hybrid makes this so weird. It feels very out of color pie on both ends, it really needed to be both red and blue. But yeah, you can't target him, so you should aim all your own removal at him and then change targets. Super neat card, will put him in bar cube.
Green is the color most willing to tolerate the triple pips in the cost for a 4mv dude. I think it's a pretty good comp to The Earth King, a card I find quite underrated in the Cube community and quite interesting. The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl is a token machine, and with enough incidental squirrels (like the also-underrated Squirrel Dealer) we've got an archetype cooking.
Shuri, Wakandan Inventor seems extremely close to being good enough. I like every part of the card, but it's all just "yeah, that's good but" and I want to see if it's more than the sum of her parts.
Tony Stark seems incredible for my Cube, but I'm already taking out Miles Morales every few weeks whenever sanity overcomes me and I really don't like these transforming MDFCs for expecting both players to know both sides and the nuances of how these specific ones work.
The median Cube these days has something like 20% of cards that produce tokens and Bennie Bracks, Zoologist is a deeply underrated card in the Cube community, so you'd think I'd like Mister Fantastic, Reed Richards here, but Bennie's convoke is super important. Still, not the worst card in the world, and cool at uncommon.
Ultron, Artificial Malevolence is exciting to me in a big way. I worry it'll play out too similarly to Digsite Engineer, a card I love but is often the only Karnstruct-generator I don't cube with since the cost of 2 on top of artifacts is often too hard, but this being colorless helps a lot in that regard. The big butt is quite rude, though.
Boy is this set ugly. I am so uninspired to draft this.
EDIT: oh yeah I'm also 100% playing Mjölnir, Hammer of Thor and like 25% to play Thor, God of Thunder.
I agree that most cards are designed this way. However, I don't think it's because the design space has been depleted, it's intentional. That is, they are intentionally making variations on the same principles or card designs.
The issue with unique, simple designs is that they are hard to evaluate, polarizing and difficult to balance. Take Urza Block. It's the single most creative block on a card level with dozens and dozens of fantastic designs that are still staples today...and also one of the most broken. It has cards that some people love to play with and others hate to play against. A lot of cards simply never worked or saw play.
In other words, the appeal of these cards are narrow. They explore new design space and only a section of the player base will be interested in that space.
Instead, they can simply remake or create variations on proven concepts, slap the set mechanic or a small twist on it and get a card more people will play.
Think about it, which cards do you think will appeal to the people who buy Magic because it has a Marvel or Lord of the Rings set?
I was a huge fan of Glint-Sleeve Siphoner back in the day but I hate all baggage that energy brings to Magic.
This is the best variant we've received in a while and y'all know how much I love vertical growth in aggressive threats. Menace is so underrated in cube when you have so much efficient removal to pick off blockers and make decisions tougher for the defending player. The 2 drop slot in black used to be pretty wide open back in the day, but nowadays we've gotten so many cool options to customize that position of the curve. So much versatility.
Huge fan of this one as well, very clean card with beautiful art and it opens up a lot of cool sequences with blinking and small Reanimator and whatnot. This slots into just about every W/x archetype I can think of in my cube aside from a really sleek and concentrated aggressive deck. I'll love playing this in U/W Control as an expendable body when I crack a fetch to flash it in on a trade, gain some life, then grab back my Flooded Strand to ensure I hit the land drop for a T4 Wrath. Oh baby.
That's a Reno and Rude variant and you know it.
I think you're both skipping a step - UB sets are primarily aimed at people who don't already play Magic, and who in many cases are probably buying them as collectibles instead of as game pieces. Introducing stuff like Mayhem and Sneak has more to do with cleaning up Madness and Ninjutsu (which both have some unintuitive timing nonsense going on if you're not used to them) than them running out of design space.
...
I'll be honest, I should probably block this thread for my own sanity (stupid "looking at every single thread to see if there's something interesting" habit). Seeing these cards is making me irrationally annoyed.
EDIT: I can't do that... so I'll just dip out of the forums instead until spoiler season's done. See you later, everyone.