General Making green more interactive

[Erik Twice]

Green is, pound for pound, the weakest colour in my cube. And the reason for it is not because it lacks raw power, but simply because it lacks enough interaction to actually cover its bases. It has little removal and even fewer ways to interact with the stack, making it a less central colour than it could hope to be.

The problem is that, after all is said and done, most "interactive" cards end up getting cut for not being good or useful enough. At the current iteration of my cube, I run exactly five cards that could be used as interaction or mess with the opponent somehow. And one of them isn't even green in any way that matters.



That's all. And it's not for a lack of trying. I've tried a bunch of cards that simply weren't good enough compared to the offerings of other colours, like the "fight" creatures:




These are fine at lower power levels, but red creatures are just plainly better. Not only do they more damage, they can't get "countered" by killing the creature in response to the trigger. Most green "interaction" is similarly weak:

is much worse than
is hardly better than the outdated
leaves a huge 3/3 behind
is a bad vindicate that can be destroyed and ramps the opponent
is symmetrical, so it wrecks your own equipment and prevents you from using artifacts to shore up your lack of interaction.
has the same problem.

Some options are fine, but I've found them middling one way or the other:



There are some very powerful options for green to interact with the opponent. So powerful that they go overboard and prevent any further interaction from the opponent:



Some of green's best interaction doesn't do much against the average deck but crushes weaker archetypes so I don't run them right now:



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Ultimately, green is a proactive colour. And while there's nothing wrong with that, the fact is that it's not the most proactive colour, either. Green is solid, unique and has a ton of powerful options backed by recursion. But it does not pressure the opponent, making it less well-rounded than it could be.

Given how heavy on artifacts my cube is, I wonder if I can just run this type of cards as a toned down Swords to Plowshares:



Natural State seems appealing since it doesn't destroy some of the most important build-arounds while being a mere one mana.

Ideally, I would like green cards like this:



But I don't think they exist. Do they?

 

[Schafkurai]

I like this topic, as it is a problem I've also been feeling lately. I have no idea if green is the weakest color in my cube but it is difficult to find interaction at the right power level.

Currently I'm running these thigns in green:


Boseiju is obviously great and Heritage Reclamation is versatile. Tail Swipe is the one mana fight spell that makes maindecks the most, but not every green deck likes fight spells.. Legolas's Quick Reflexes was too much for my cube.

Natural State is a great shoutout, I like efficient removal that punches a bit above it's MV.

Unfortunately I don't have any great ideas but I'm curious to see if something else comes up.

 

[Nanonox]

At higher power level, Green’s interaction suite hits GYs, artifacts and enchantments.



You mentioned a few others like Force and Endurance and I agree they hit specific decks too hard.

Some fight spells might be good enough, but they are risky (not Reflexes)



Maybe some deathtouchers like Narnam renegade? But these don’t clear blockers, they are mainly defensive.
The other option might be to break singleton on Green’s best actual removal spell

 

[Seeker]

Some fight spells might be good enough, but they are risky (not Reflexes)

While I don't have enough reps to confidently endorse it, there's also


Don't forget that

are also technically "interaction" (especially with the combat step!)

 

[Brad]

I always like a "G: Protect" instant in my lists. Usually this one.

Historically, green hasn't interacted much because it has other strengths and that's ok. Couple fights, couple naturalizes, couple pump/other and call it a day.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

Green is, pound for pound, the weakest colour in my cube. And the reason for it is not because it lacks raw power, but simply because it lacks enough interaction to actually cover its bases. It has little removal and even fewer ways to interact with the stack, making it a less central colour than it could hope to be.

The problem is that, after all is said and done, most "interactive" cards end up getting cut for not being good or useful enough. At the current iteration of my cube, I run exactly five cards that could be used as interaction or mess with the opponent somehow. And one of them isn't even green in any way that matters.

I'm going to say two things here:
First, Green isn't really the most interactive color on the planet. It usually wants to ask "questions" that are difficult for the opponent to answer rather than trying to spend a lot of time trying to answer the opponent's threats. I think your green section has a lot of fun and powerful cards in it, but it seems to run out of steam at the top end. For example, cards like Titania, Protector of Argoth and Verderous Gearhulk get absolutely mogged by cards like Trumpeting Carnosaur, Overlord of the Balemurk, and Kappa Cannoneer. Your top end green threats simply are not better "questions" than any of these cards, which means that your green decks are going to have trouble outscaling the opponent. In this case, I think you should take the Brian Kibler approach and consider trying to lean more into green does well in the form of it's threats rather than trying find better answers.


Second, a lot of green's answers which have leaned into the powerful side of the equation tend to be modal or provide additional value beyond the basic answer effect. Hunter's Talent is a good recent example of a powerful card which has an immediate interactive ability but also provides additional value. Likewise, you could look into cards like Bushwack and Pawpatch Formation which have multiple modes, allowing for flexibility in what the cards do while providing answers to key threats.

 

[TekLazar]

At this power level, what are people's opinions on making green less interact-able in terms of the other colors? Ie:

and all those "give hexproof and/or indestructible" going as high as Heroic Intervention if necessary.

 

[Karshtakavaar]

I had a draft reply written up on my phone about bringing the other colours to Green rather than bringing Green to the other colours (Like with your examples of Oxidize and friends being strong in your environment), but it basically amounted to everything Brad and Train said.

I will add that in a combat focused environments one-sided fogs are sick interaction, and its possible to make pump spells more interesting if most removal is damage or -x/-x rather than destroy/exile (if that's an angle worth taking).

Also promoting Go Forth and Arachnogenesis

 

[Ecophagy]

Green also has a decent number of flash creatures. Cards like Ambush Viper, Briarhorn, and Pack Guardian might mostly say "destroy target attacking creature", but the floor is still a creature.

 

[Seeker]

I always like a "G: Protect" instant in my lists. Usually this one.

Historically, green hasn't interacted much because it has other strengths and that's ok. Couple fights, couple naturalizes, couple pump/other and call it a day.

While it's not a pump spell, I was very pleasantly surprised with

in retail Limited.

The ability to protect anything rather than just creatures, indestructible on top of hexproof to be anti-Wrath too, and the surprise lifegain to swing a race added up to a lot more power than I expected.

Can't go to the face, which is definitely a downside. But at least worth thinking about perhaps?

 

[Nemo]

Green also has a decent number of flash creatures. Cards like Ambush Viper, Briarhorn, and Pack Guardian might mostly say "destroy target attacking creature", but the floor is still a creature.

That's my thought as well. I also like Ambush Wolf and Bounding Wolf. If I could put the "exile a card from a graveyard" effect onto Bounding Wolf, that would be a perfect card. I don't want to go all the way up to Endurance levels of power.

I think they'll keep printing cards of this sort and we'll get more options over time. I wouldn't mind seeing a green version of Plumecreed Escort or Loyal Gryff, with non-flying green-appropriate stats and abilities.

This is a sneaky interactive green card:


It can pump itself as a combat trick if you make creatures enter at instant speed, and you can also sacrifice it at instant speed to pump other stuff. I was also thinking of the "bring green to other colors" sort of idea referenced above, and this card came to mind. At its core, this card is still "asking some questions" of your opponent since it's going to become a big beater if it isn't dealt with, so I find this to be a nice example of what green ought to be.

 

[Chris Taylor]

I always like a "G: Protect" instant in my lists. Usually this one.

Historically, green hasn't interacted much because it has other strengths and that's ok. Couple fights, couple naturalizes, couple pump/other and call it a day.

On this note, my favorite modal naturalize is

 

[Erik Twice]

I'm going to say two things here:
First, Green isn't really the most interactive color on the planet. It usually wants to ask "questions" that are difficult for the opponent to answer rather than trying to spend a lot of time trying to answer the opponent's threats. I think your green section has a lot of fun and powerful cards in it, but it seems to run out of steam at the top end. For example, cards like Titania, Protector of Argoth and Verderous Gearhulk get absolutely mogged by cards like Trumpeting Carnosaur, Overlord of the Balemurk, and Kappa Cannoneer. Your top end green threats simply are not better "questions" than any of these cards, which means that your green decks are going to have trouble outscaling the opponent.

I think you are right that it's part of Green's nature, it should be asking more questions. Still, there's a limit and, frankly, even if I give it more power, there simply are not many cards that can compete with other colours. If you play green, it's better to play Overlord of the Balemurk or Trumpeting Carnosaur than it is to get something out of Primeval Titan.

That said, I think my top end is fine. Titania is game-winning. It provides instant value the moment it comes in and it can very easily destroy you next turn. Gearhulk is "fair", but it's a lot of stats and can be ramped quite consistently.

Compare with white. A white deck can curve out like this:

T.1 T.2 T.3

That's good because it's disruptive. It doesn't let the opponent do whatever he wants while you deploy threats. Green can do good things, but it does not disrupt the opponent:

T.1 T.2 + T.3

Is that good? Yes. Is the storm or control player annoyed in any way? Not really. Chances are they'll blow up half of those cards and the green deck will be left struggling.

Green is good in my cube, but only if it leans into other colours for a little bit of disruption:

->

->

->

The moment you have that "touch", things just work better. You don't have to be as explosive. But I need that slight touch of interaction that green currently lacks.