Sets [2XM] Double Masters Spoilers- The Set That Makes Me Cry Tears Of Salt

[TrainmasterGT]

Hey look, we're getting a masters set this year:

And it has cards!

And some of those cards have snazzy borderless variants.

Wow! These are some valuable reprints, specifically for commander! I wonder if they put fetch-

Now, to quell one rumor before it begins, there are no fetch land reprints in this set. We know we told you there was another printing of fetch lands coming this year, and we promise there is, but Double Masters is not that reprint.

What the heck, Wizards. Well, at least this set won't have some sort of super expensive collector's edi-

And keeping in the spirit of doubling your experience, we'll be replacing Collector Boosters with something we're calling VIP Edition (for this product only). We'll have more details on what that is as we get a little closer to release, but it will be filled to the brim with awesome stuff.

Are you kidding me? The over-priced collector products are polluting the reprint sets now too!?

I was half excited this morning when I woke up to seeing that we were getting another masters set. I always have loved masters sets, they're fun to open, fun to draft, and usually have a pretty good value. However, they lost me with this one. Masters sets have always been a great place for reprinting cards that have been too good for standard and too in-demand to plop into a commander deck. They are the place where we can get our staple cards for eternal formats in the booster packs.

Unfortunately, instead of needed reprints for all eternal formats, the cards that have been revealed for this set only see play in Commander. This is really disappointing for multiple reasons. Primarily, however, I'm disappointed because there are so many other commander products being released this year. We're getting an unprecedented 9(!) commander preconstructed decks this year, along with an entire commander-themed booster product called Commander Legends. Couldn't they have parked the commander cards there? I mean, they confirmed a Fetchland reprint is coming out sometime this year, and it's looking like they will be in Commander Legends. Why couldn't they put the Commander cards in the Commander set and left the Fetches for a set for everyone.

Don't even get me started on the price of this product in paper. The last masters set had a booster pack retail price of about 13 USD. The announced MTGO price of this set matches the previous masters set price of $6.99. This could mean we are getting another 13 dollar paper pack. However, Modern Horizons also cost $6.99 on Magic Online and the paper packs "only" cost $8. Perhaps WOTC will have listened to Community Feedback on the price of masters product and printed this at a more reasonable price point, but I am unsure of that. I remember I wanted to draft Ultimate Masters, but couldn't afford to due to the insane price point of the packs.

The sad part of all of this is that I can't really vote with my wallet here. Even if I don't buy any cards from this set, wether because I can't afford it or because the set is bad, other people will. I'd be willing to bet this set will sell very well, just given the fact that it includes a bunch of in-demand commander cards. It's really unfortunate to see players of non-casual eternal formats continue to get the short end of the stick.

Spoiler: Something Nice

Ok, I like the new Wayne Reynolds art on Blightsteel Colossus. I mean, look at this thing! It's Beautiful! I just wish this were in normal boosters...

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Well, they want to lure all kinds of players into buying the Masters sets, so of course there are going to be Commander staples in there. Let's just wait and see what else they will reprint.

Any of Deftblade Elite, Pianna, Nomad Captain, Waterfront Bouncer, Complicate, Compulsion, Probe, Psychatog, Gerrard's Verdict, Temporal Spring, Fervent Charge, Chimeric Idol, Tangle Wire, or Smokestack would be extra appreciated, thank you!

Too bad Masticore is on the reserved list. That pretty much voids my hope of ever updating my entire cube to the new border

 

[TrainmasterGT]

Well, they want to lure all kinds of players into buying the Masters sets, so of course there are going to be Commander staples in there. Let's just wait and see what else they will reprint.

Any of Deftblade Elite, Pianna, Nomad Captain, Waterfront Bouncer, Complicate, Compulsion, Probe, Psychatog, Gerrard's Verdict, Temporal Spring, Fervent Charge, Chimeric Idol, Tangle Wire, or Smokestack would be extra appreciated, thank you!

Too bad Masticore is on the reserved list. That pretty much voids my hope of ever updating my entire cube to the new border

Well they just revealed two more reprints... Kaalia of the Vast and Mana Crypt. This looks like it may actually be a commander masters set.

As for Masticore, there is the From the Vault foil printing. It's not the M15 border but it is in the 8th edition border which is pretty close. Personally, I'd like to see Psychatog with it's art from Vintage Masters printed in paper. I'm still disappointed they chose to reprint Shadowmage Infiltrator over Tog in Masters 25.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Well they just revealed two more reprints... Kaalia of the Vast and Mana Crypt. This looks like it may actually be a commander masters set.

As for Masticore, there is the From the Vault foil printing. It's not the M15 border but it is in the 8th edition border which is pretty close. Personally, I'd like to see Psychatog with it's art from Vintage Masters printed in paper. I'm still disappointed they chose to reprint Shadowmage Infiltrator over Tog in Masters 25.

Oh whelp, Commander Masters confirmed then!

As for From the Vault, I dislike foils. My preference goes nonfoil new border > nonfoil 8e border >> nonfoil old border > nonfoil alternate borders that are close to normal (Time Spiral timeshifted, Planar Chaos colorshifted) >> foils (in the same order) >> special borders (Future Sight futureshifted, Throne of Eldraine swirly thingy) >>> special border foils.

 

[Kirblinx]

They revealed two more cards after the article, and they don't seem to be steering away form the commander cards:

Also their funky full art equivalents

I mean they have shown nothing but value up to this point. I am just a simple man and want to see some cool downshifted commons for pauper. Which this set may indeed do.

 

[Velrun]

I mean, they confirmed a Fetchland reprint is coming out sometime this year, and it's looking like they will be in Commander Legends.

From March 13

 

[TrainmasterGT]

From March 13

I've seen this video, but they're doing an additional reprint in addition to the BS $350 Secret Lair product. They haven't confirmed what set it will be in yet.

 

[Chris Taylor]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/double-masters-is-for-you-whether-you-buy-a-box-or-not

Interesting take

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Love it, makes total sense!

 

[Spiderdoofus]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/double-masters-is-for-you-whether-you-buy-a-box-or-not

Interesting take

I think this is a really useful, positive perspective. Having more prints of cards will lower prices, which is good for Magic. Hopefully I can try a draft of this or two if it's not crazy expensive.

That's the bummer of these expensive packs for me. They are often really sweet draft sets. Like I think UMA was one of the most interesting Limited set designs, but people, myself included, couldn't get enough reps to really appreciate it.

 

[TrainmasterGT]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/double-masters-is-for-you-whether-you-buy-a-box-or-not

Interesting take

That makes me rethink my position on the set a little bit.

I still think the set is priced to high to be affordable for people like myself who wish to actually draft the dang thing, but if it can Tank the prices on some cards that I need for the cube, I suppose there is no real harm in this product existing.

I think a lot of people's discontent with this product (mine included) has come from the continual ratcheting up of prices of magic cards. Now, basically every product has an expensive premium version, and yet the prices of normal cards appear to not be decreasing. Having said that, appearances are not truths, and if this strategy is actually making this game's secondary market more affordable, perhaps we should be a little more lenient in our criticisms.

The most important part of this article is this paragraph:

If you want to fight against premium pricing, do it for products like Secret Lair: Ultimate Edition, Mythic Edition, or even Collectors Boosters, which do very little good for the community at large while primarily benefiting Wizards and whales. Double Masters is the wrong target for the rage. It's a high-ish-supply reprint set that will drop prices significantly and primarily benefit players who don't want to (or can't) buy a box by offering in-demand singles at very low prices. Don't let your desire for perfect ruin a set that has the potential to do a lot of good for the community as a whole.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

The previews for this Masters set have already started, and there's some pretty snazzy reprints!

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/where-find-double-masters-previews-2020-07-16
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/card-image-gallery/double-masters

 

[Velrun]

Reprint sets for me = Only 1 % interesting due to few cards have new art.
Otherwise reprint sets bring nothing new to cube.

If anyone feel different, they can go ahead and enjoy the crap out of it Enjoy it for the both of us!

 

[blacksmithy]

Something i’ve noticed after leaving MTG in 2015/2016 and coming back this year... Unless you insist on having “premium” versions of cards, everything is WAY cheaper now. I was able to rebuild my cube from the ground up, like 200 cards that are mostly rares and mythics, for 50-75 CENTS a card (USD).
If making stuff that’s stupid expensive for whales has caused some or most of that shift in the secondary market, i just want to thank WOTC and the whales both for making MTG a more affordable hobby for the rest of us.

 

[Velrun]

Something i’ve noticed after leaving MTG in 2015/2016 and coming back this year... Unless you insist on having “premium” versions of cards, everything is WAY cheaper now. I was able to rebuild my cube from the ground up, like 200 cards that are mostly rares and mythics, for 50-75 CENTS a card (USD).
If making stuff that’s stupid expensive for whales has caused some or most of that shift in the secondary market, i just want to thank WOTC and the whales both for making MTG a more affordable hobby for the rest of us.

Fallacy

It was also cheap back then if you waited four years to buy the cards. The expensive part is getting the cards right away.

 

[Brad]

I think it actually is less expensive after a couple of months (early prices are so speculatively high) because packs are being cracked for crazy chase mythics, mainly walkers, so the expected value of the set is placed on 1-2 cards rather than being dispersed more evenly throughout the rare slot.

I don't have data to support that, but it definitely seems that way.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

Fallacy

It was also cheap back then if you waited four years to buy the cards. The expensive part is getting the cards right away.

Come one, you're not seriously suggesting that these reprint sets haven't been lowering prices of previously expensive cards. Calling that a fallacy is just silly.

 

[Velrun]

Come one, you're not seriously suggesting that these reprint sets haven't been lowering prices of previously expensive cards. Calling that a fallacy is just silly.

We aren’t debating reprint sets and their effect on the market value.

 

[Velrun]

I think it actually is less expensive after a couple of months (early prices are so speculatively high) because packs are being cracked for crazy chase mythics, mainly walkers, so the expected value of the set is placed on 1-2 cards rather than being dispersed more evenly throughout the rare slot.

I don't have data to support that, but it definitely seems that way.

True!

Something close to this



Where X margin is time after release and Y is cost of single purchase.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

We aren’t debating reprint sets and their effect on the market value.

Maybe I misinterpreted blacksmithy's post.

 

[Chris Taylor]

So price aside (Y'all know my feelings) this set does provide an interesting opportunity to those of us with printers:
New art! Some of these are downright Gorgeous

The new dark confidant is my favorite art for the card so far, even if it's getting some yellow claw vibes.

And hey, unhinged basics are in the VIP Edition!

I mean sure, those packs are $100 each, but this might drive down the price of magics most beautiful lands, right?
Maybe?

 

[TrainmasterGT]

Fallacy

It was also cheap back then if you waited four years to buy the cards. The expensive part is getting the cards right away.

That's actually not quite true.

It used to be that back in the day, a rare from a new set which saw extensive standard play would have a reasonably high price tag for it's entire duration in the format. Now, most standard rates drop down to being a couple bucks, regardless of how much play they see, within a few months of release. Let's compare two cards from Theros and Theros Beyond Death with similar format play rates and see how their price tags fair.

Hero's Downfall and Sylvan Caryatid were both extremely important cards during their run in standard, especially after Khans of Tarkir was released. According to data on MTGStocks.com, neither one of these rares ever dropped below $5 while they were legal in standard, despite not being parts of format-defining decks until about a year after their initial release. These were not cards which were seeing modern play, and commander was not a major share of the market at the time.

Compare this to Elspeth Conquers Death and Shatter the Sky. These two cards see extensive play in the two best decks in standard: Bant Control/Midrange/Ramp and Jeskai Yorion variants. Read Dom's articles on SCG if you want a better idea about how these decks work. Despite this, neither one of these cards has been able to peak a $2 price tag, despite their place as some of the most important rares in the format. This isn't just a cherrypicked issue from THB either. Many of the best rares in Throne of Eldraine have gone down the toilet price wise as well. For example, Bonecrusher Giant started as a $5 card, but has stabilized at $1, despite being a staple in Burn decks across multiple formats. Murderous Rider arguably was the chase rare for Constructed out of Throne of Eldraine at release (until everyone realized how busted Once Upon a Time was), but now only has about a $2 price tag, despite seeing play in every black standard deck and many black Pioneer decks. Now this isn't to say that there aren't cards of value in these new sets. However, the majority of the value is held up almost entirely in the Mythic Rare slot and in cards which primarily see casual play.

It has gotten much less expensive to acquire the good cards for cube that we need close to release. While it is true that buying a card during release weekend is still more expensive than waiting, you only need to wait a few weeks to get cards at a good price instead of almost two years.

 

[Velrun]

Sorry Train man but that is also not what we’re talking about.

I don’t mind the input from Onde and you. However Smith man said he could build his cube from the ground and up with cards from 2015-2020 very cheap.

This was also the case in 2015 that you could build your cube from the ground and up if you chose cards from 2010-2015 (example). Because after five years, cards are cheaper than when they are Standard legal. Smith just had no experience in building a cube from the ground and up before he did it in 2020. Hence the fallacy.

That being said... It might still be a little cheaper for non-whales. Just not as much as one would think. I am not the allmighty judge but I do know how cheap cards were in 2015 when you bought 5 year old cards. Especially if you had the 2020 Riptide mentality of not power-maxing but synergy-maxing instead.

<3

 

[TrainmasterGT]

Sorry Train man but that is also not what we’re talking about.

I don’t mind the input from Onde and you. However Smith man said he could build his cube from the ground and up with cards from 2015-2020 very cheap.

This was also the case in 2015 that you could build your cube from the ground and up if you chose cards from 2010-2015 (example). Because after five years, cards are cheaper than when they are Standard legal. Smith just had no experience in building a cube from the ground and up before he did it in 2020. Hence the fallacy.

That being said... It might still be a little cheaper for non-whales. Just not as much as one would think. I am not the allmighty judge but I do know how cheap cards were in 2015 when you bought 5 year old cards. Especially if you had the 2020 Riptide mentality of not power-maxing but synergy-maxing instead.

<3

No, actually that is what we're talking about. Smith just said they quit cubing back in 2015-16, and that they're having an easier time acquiring cards now than back then. It wasn't harder to get 2010 bulk cards in 2015 than it is to get 2015 bulk cards in 2020. However, it is much easier to acquire 2019 and 2020 cards which are still in standard and see play than it was to acquire 2014, 15, and 16 standard rares when they were legal. One used to have to wait until a constructed playable rare left standard before they could acquire it at an affordable price, now one only has to wait until a couple of weeks after the set launch. Judging by what I've seen of Blacksmity's new cube, this is more than likely what they're referring too.

If you're taking issue with the fact that I chose Theros and Theros: Beyond Death to make my comparisons, there are a couple of reasons I did this:
-Both sets are Large sets with a similar theme (Greek Mythology and Enchantments)
-Both sets were legal at the respective times we were discussing (Theros left standard at the end of 2015 and Beyond Death was released earlier this year)
-Neither set had a land cycle which depreciates the value of nonland cards (Khans rares were always worth less than the Fetchlands in the set, same with BFZ and the expeditions)

It is much easier to acquire new cards in 2020 than it was in 2015, and the plethora of reprint sets have made acquiring old cards easier as well. It's not a fallacy to say that it's easier to get cards these days because the data supports that getting cards is generally speaking less expensive now.

 

[Velrun]

I do not have an issue with you choosing to talk about Theros and return to Theros. I have no issues actually

I might be the one misunderstanding. I thought Smith was talking about purchasing old cards to 'catch up' to today's Riptide cube standards.