General A Sticker Cube

[ellogeyen]

I really love the stickers that Unfinity introduces, but am not a fan of the ticket-system accompanying them. I've been brainstorming a way to use these stickers in cube without their current rules baggage, instead allowing stickers to bring permanent change to a cube's cards (the stickers wouldn't be removed after the game). With this goals in mind, let's have a look at what we've got to work with:

Unfinity will have 48 sticker sheets, with each sheet containing:
- 3 name stickers
- 3 art stickers
- 2 ability stickers (one of 2 tickets, one of 3-6 tickets)
- 2 p/t stickers (one of 2 tickets, one of 3-6 tickets)



P/t stickers seem to have a combined power and toughness equal to 3x their ticket cost: 3/3 costs 2 tickets, 5/4 costs 3 tickets, 5/7 costs 4 tickets, ect. The ability stickers are a little harder to quanitfy, but in general power level: "haste" costs 2 tickets, "hexproof" costs 3 tickets, "indestructible" costs 4 tickets. For their power level, this generally means that they seem fair to play on a vanilla creature with mana value equal to a ticket's cost, which means you'll create a:
- 2 mana 4/2
- 3 mana 3/3 hexproof
- 4 mana 5/7
- ect

My though was to build a cube that should be played sealed, where each player gets a set of random stickers sheets that they can use on their cards during deck construction, with the rule that "each creature (or vehicle) in your deck must contain an ability- or p/t sticker with a ticket cost equal to or less than its mana value."

Now, there're a lot of consequences and choices to make based on this one rule, and I've been theorycrafting a lot with it. There's a lot to be explored here. However, I'd really like to hear your initial thought on using the Unfinity stickers like this to make a permanently changing cube

 

[blacksmithy]

brings new meaning to the phrase “legacy cube.”
i think this sounds like a lot of fun to play with a group who’s familiar with the legacy game genre. i still haven’t wrapped my head around how stickers are “supposed” to work but i think they are fun if you are up to the logistical challenge

 

[Chris Taylor]

For their power level, this generally means that they seem fair to play on a vanilla creature with mana value equal to a ticket's cost, which means you'll create a:
- 2 mana 4/2

Am I old or does a 2 mana 4/2 seem insane

 

[ellogeyen]

Am I old or does a 2 mana 4/2 seem insane

Quite strong, not insane, especially compared to a possible 3 mana 6/3 or 4 mana 8/4.

But you do raise a good point: scalability is very difficult when just using mana cost. With further consideration I think it's actually better to use toughness as a ticket cost indicator. This would make the holy "3 mana 3/2" sit in a very nice spot, and make it generally easier to play with sticker possibilities for different points in the curve. It would also solve the trouble I had with balancing evasion, as a 4/2 flier for 2 is insane.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I think there's a link to my alternative cube in my dooblydoo? Anyway, I have a Heritage cube that does this; that is, permanently alter the cards in the cube. The way I do it is start the draft with quests on the table, which you can complete during play. Whenever a quest is completed, a booster with what are basically stickers is opened, and the person who completed the quest gets first pick, then the other players get to pick in a random order. You can apply the sticker directly, or wait until the game is over.

 

[ellogeyen]

I think there's a link to my alternative cube in my dooblydoo? Anyway, I have a Heritage cube that does this; that is, permanently alter the cards in the cube. The way I do it is start the draft with quests on the table, which you can complete during play. Whenever a quest is completed, a booster with what are basically stickers is opened, and the person who completed the quest gets first pick, then the other players get to pick in a random order. You can apply the sticker directly, or wait until the game is over.

Yeah that cube was part of the inspiration! I've been a big fan of altering cards (within magic rules) since conspiracy, but have never been able to find something that tickled my inner Melvin like stickers have. It seemed to me like the Heritage cube could get a few overpowered cards quite quickly though; how's your experience been with that?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

People love playing with the broken customs. In fact, I have way more second thoughts about them than my players :’)

 

[spicewitch]

This seems like it would be fun for a side cube, like all of the jank that's uncubeable, pop it in and let ppl slap up to 1 sticker on each. Sounds like 2 stickers has been A Problem for the heritage cube?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

This seems like it would be fun for a side cube, like all of the jank that's uncubeable, pop it in and let ppl slap up to 1 sticker on each. Sounds like 2 stickers has been A Problem for the heritage cube?

Not at all. I capped it out at two stickers max per card, to prevent individual cards from becoming beyond broken. To balance certain effects, a sticker can be worth double points, meaning you can't apply any other effect on the same card, other than that sticker.

I think I would restrict the P/T stickers to increase base stats by a maximum amount of P/T, so you can't stick 4/4 stats on a Savannah Lions, at least not without increasings its casting cost

 

[ellogeyen]

I've been working on a possible list, with the assumption that each creature would get a sticker with a ticket cost equal to its toughness. This means creatures with toughness 1 will remain stickerless. Stickers would be capped at 1 per creature

@Onderzeeboot it seems like you haven't updated the heritage cube for a while. Was that just corona or something about the cube?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I've been working on a possible list, with the assumption that each creature would get a sticker with a ticket cost equal to its toughness. This means creatures with toughness 1 will remain stickerless. Stickers would be capped at 1 per creature

@Onderzeeboot it seems like you haven't updated the heritage cube for a while. Was that just corona or something about the cube?

Both Corona and the fact that I own two cubes and only run a single cube night every few months or so.

 

[ellogeyen]

I'm dragging this cube idea from its grave because I actually ordered some cards now! I also tweaked the concept some:



Grid-draft the entire 180 card cube. Any sticker cards you draft this way are available during any match you play. During the game, unstickered (nontoken) creature must immediately get a sticker from its owner's available sticker cards if able. This sticker mast have a ticket value equal to or lower than that creature's toughness. Stickers remain on cards between drafts



This is my current list. The possibility for 2 mana 4/2 creatures is very slim, because most creatures have downsides at that mana value. I'll be testing a monored version this month (it's the deepest color for this concept). Hopefully I'll have some updates then (and probably make a cube blog)!

I welcome any problems you might foresee

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I’m curious why you use toughness instead of mana value for the sticker requirement.

 

[ellogeyen]

I’m curious why you use toughness instead of mana value for the sticker requirement.

Tickets are too cheap when directly converted to mana value. The aforementioned 2mv 4/2 is an example of this (but a 3mv 6/3 is another example). At that point, the creatures need downside mechanics anyway. By tying ticket value to toughness, I get to have 2mv creatures with downside mechanics OR 3mv creatures with small upside use the same ticket. That provides an interesting choice for the drafter:



In a similar vein, linking it to toughness gives me a broader choice in the type of creatures to run at the same mana value. I have the option to play mv3 creatures with upside; higher toughness creatures will have (more severe) downsides. This provides interesting options for me as a cube curator:



These things can best be done by linking ticket value to toughness. So let me turn the question back on you: do you think there's an advantage to using mana value instead of toughness for the sticker requirement.

 

[Onderzeeboot]

So let me turn the question back on you: do you think there's an advantage to using mana value instead of toughness for the sticker requirement.

No, not at all, I was just wondering what your motivations were, since MV would seem like the natural stat to tie these too in my mind Thanks for the in-depth answer! The choice between cheap but with downside and more expensive but with upside, and the fact that those can vie for the same stickers, seems like a fun one to figure out.

 

[ellogeyen]

This is my current list. The possibility for 2 mana 4/2 creatures is very slim, because most creatures have downsides at that mana value. I'll be testing a monored version this month (it's the deepest color for this concept). Hopefully I'll have some updates then (and probably make a cube blog)!

I've played a Proof of Concept yesterday, and it worked as well as I could hope! It wasn't as smooth as I'd hoped, so I have a few takeaways:
- Let the stickering happen during deck construction, it disrupts the flow too much when doing it during play (this also prevents confusion around tokens)
- Prototype cards like Blitz Automaton were confusing and just a mistake.
- A 2 mana 4/2 isn't happening a lot; most power/toughness stickers are actually quite defensive. Goblin Firebug is therefor still a bad creature.
- Mono red has the most creature with downsides, which is nice for the stickers, but has trouble dealing with high-toughness creatures. Mono-black might've been better as a PoC. I'd like to add one or two colors for a next testrun.

Furthermore, the main novelty of the cube is that you can add stickers to cards. Having stickers remain between drafts would defeat that purpose. Instead the stickers only remain during one draft, for one exception: After the draft, each player may choose their favorite card from their deck to keep their sticker. They add a name sticker and art sticker to indicate this.

The example of our first draft:

 

[Aston]

Spoiler

 

[Aston]

After the draft, each player may choose their favorite card from their deck to keep their sticker. They add a name sticker and art sticker to indicate this.

Love this idea btw!

 

[Velrun]

After the draft, each player may choose their favorite card from their deck to keep their sticker. They add a name sticker and art sticker to indicate this.

Holy dog that sounds awesome!

I think I would limit the changes to only the tournament winning player gets to add the stickers though. For me stuff like this has been succesful in the past. People remember “that one tournament” where one specific sticker was added.

By the way, speaking of stickers, have you guys played Balatro?

 

[Onderzeeboot]

By the way, speaking of stickers, have you guys played Balatro?

I may or may not have logged more than 70 hours on this game >_> <_< >_>

 

[Velrun]

I may or may not have logged more than 70 hours on this game >_> <_< >_>

It’s amazing!

Balatro has given me so many ideas for Magic cubes.

 

[ellogeyen]

I think I would limit the changes to only the tournament winning player gets to add the stickers though. For me stuff like this has been succesful in the past. People remember “that one tournament” where one specific sticker was added.

Yeah, we were playing with two and too excited not to sticker myself. I would certainly do only the winner if I'd ever draft it with 8, and maybe in the future with two as some kind of price

By the way, speaking of stickers, have you guys played Balatro?

No, but I did play inscryption which does awesome thing with permanently altering cards as a deckbuilding game as well! Would recommend!

 

[Velrun]

@ellogeyen
Play Balatro! Easily the best Rogue-like, Deck-builder. Even better than the ‘original’ Slay the Spire that for sure was my all time favorite until two weeks ago. Kind of hard to say but it’s true.

Look at these numbers
https://steamdb.info/app/2379780/charts/

That’s insane The average player count is a LOT higher than the highest record player count of similiar games which is an insane feat in my opinion. It has also sold more than a million copies in four weeks.

 

[ellogeyen]

I think I would limit the changes to only the tournament winning player gets to add the stickers though. For me stuff like this has been succesful in the past. People remember “that one tournament” where one specific sticker was added.

I've started doing this! Although for now just with the people new to the cube, whether they win or lose, to get the really hooked



Stickering the cards before the draft was much better. It more than doubled the deckbuilding time, but made the gameplay itself so much smoother. I'll be making a full cube blog sometime this week if people want to follow along. For now though, you can find the cube on CubeCobra with this link!

 

[Onderzeeboot]

I've started doing this! Although for now just with the people new to the cube, whether they win or lose, to get the really hooked

View attachment 9577

Stickering the cards before the draft was much better. It more than doubled the deckbuilding time, but made the gameplay itself so much smoother. I'll be making a full cube blog sometime this week if people want to follow along. For now though, you can find the cube on CubeCobra with this link!

Can you use the P/T stickers to upgrade a card as well? E.g. there's an 8/4 P/T sticker that costs 4, can you make the Barging Sergeant an 8/4 this way?