General (AFR) Dungeons and Dragons: Adventures in the Forgotten Realms Testing/Includes Thread

This is a testing/includes thread. Post pictures or a text list using /c with what cards you plan to include and what cards you plan to test.

Including:
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(I really hate the art on Power Word Kill, so I may end up not including it in the end, but it is good enough to be worth inclusion in my view).

Including if I Open:

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Testing:
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Adventures in the Forgotten Realms has gotten a lot of crap from players for being a relatively weak set, especially coming off of the heels of the amazing set that was Modern Horizons 2. This was compounded by people not being a big fan of the non-Magic IP theme and misguided views about the Venture mechanic. Personally, I see a lot of really cool cards in this set that just do not work at my power level. I think the big issue with this set is that most of the cards are very weak, so the "juice" of the cool effect isnt worth the "squeeze" of implementing something like the Dungeon Mechanic or Flavor Ability Words to a lot of people. A good example of this paradigm is the Class mechanic. Classess as a concept are awesome, but most of the Class cards are pretty mediocre in their execution.

What are your plans for this set?
 
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Includes:
Portable Hole
Grim Wanderer

Testing:
Ebondeath
Dancing Sword
Ranger Class
Werewolf Pack Leader
Any/all of the creature lands but probably as souped up customs

I can see the testing stuff rotating in and out even if they’re not awesome on first test, and it will probably be a few months before i actually test them as i’m really happy with my current environment.
Kind of glad to have a “breather set” as far as cube changes.
 
My inclusions for the set! Please note, I care about the flavor of my cube enough but I know pretty much nothing about D&D beyond the very basic mechanics and yet I still think this set is neat.

White

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Probably replacing either Glory-Bound Initiate or Imposing Sovereign, both of which are solid roleplayers but don't get much love. Seems like a fun mini-build around that will work great alongside the Welder package and my cube's minor artifact sub-theme, and may encourage me to put in/back in several of the favorite white artifact cards from my on-deck binder. Not overly strong, but I'm excited to play around with him.

Blue

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Replacing Glyph Keeper, who regularly is drafted 13th and never gets cast out of the graveyard, which is more than half the point. I don't think this card needs much explanation, I wholeheartedly think it's one of the best 5-drops we've ever gotten in blue. Ojutai gets frequent comparisons here, and sure, this is marginally worse, but it's also only a single color, and Ojutai was a frequent pick in a reasonably competitive guild not too long ago (though, admittedly, is now only the 12th most-cubed UW creature (and 25th UW card overall...wow, did not realize this until I looked it up here!). Anyways, cool dragon.

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Love the flexibility and flavor here. Haven't targeted something to remove yet, which would normally mean this won't actually make it in, but I think people will enjoy this card on many axis and it's reasonably powerful as a modal Rebuff the Wicked.

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Fair mono-colored Edric slash ETB abuser! The double blue kills me here, because this is more of a pick for Xu decks rather than Ux decks, but I'll take this scholar if I can find something worth cutting here. The three power means he'll work great in fan favorite deck, tempo, and drawing cards off of aggressive action is a nice thing to reward. Pet card In the Eye of Chaos is honestly really terrible in most cubes including mine, so that seems like a good thing to replace.


Black

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In a quick examination of my black section, I realized I never added Ravenous Chupacabra in the 4+ years since Ixalan? Weird. I'm guessing it was due to my then-aversion to restriction-less black removal at competitive pricing, which I've since more than gotten over. Anyways, I'll probably add that and this, with the Cube replacing long-time favorite and one of the longest-standing cube inclusions from my original list, Skinrender, which I had drafted the same night I started putting together my cube in earnest! Such great memories, but I'm not sure that'll be enough in 2021 to keep out this jelly boy.

Gelatinous Cube is basically just a [Banisher Priest] in black, which seems worse than the competition at first, no? But it's got four power. It's no slouch on the battlefield, and it's even got an out to dissolve its target. Fun! Excellent stuff, even if it's probably too fair at four mana. Can't wait to cube with this cube.

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Potentially replacing Nezumi Graverobber, who never plays half as good as I expect/want/need it to (but who is great at drawing removal!). Most circumstances, this is a 2-mana 3/2 that trades and leaves behind a 2/2. I really can't ask for much more for two mana than that...except from most of my other black 2-drops. Still, great creature type, good up-front power, supports multiple archetypes, easy to cast, good art -- I'll be happy to include Wight.

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Love love love this skeleton boi, especially because it's technically a zombie. Makes the whole set worth doing. To quote myself from the set thread:
Slamdunk for me, wow. Did not expect to like this set so much, but there's some fun, evocative designs every other card spoiled! I lover recursive creatures, cards that don't mind getting milled or sitting in graveyards, etc. and the flash on this actually puts it over the top in terms of flexibility. And they gave it a zombie creature type?? Aggressively costed without being oppressive, opens up dynamic play patterns with lots of choices, I don't know what else to say. I love this Dracolich! To think I ran Bone Dragon as long as I did. Maybe eventually I'll be able to get Boneyard Scourge back in...

Red

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No one's been talking about this card, but it's not bad? I support a lot of artifact nonsense in red, and the price is right. I'm not sure I can find room for it but it's a neat card that I'm going to at least force my playgroup to vote on or something.

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I've talked about it before on Riptide, but this is probably the second best recursive card in red at 3 mana, but the fact that it doesn't recur itself from the graveyard is really a big blow, considering all the looting/discard effects I try to play in the color. I'm going to wait to make sure it's not too expensive, as it's going to be the least favorite of my red 3s and may not last more than another set or so, but it's worth consideration. Oh, and I hate it from a cube perspective because of how unclean its recursion immediately is. It feels unintuitive the way it's written. The worst part of this card is the art, but I'm really close to talking myself out of this card even without that!

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Weird that I have much less concern with this card at the same slot in the curve as Flameskull when it's not getting a fraction of the attention, but this is great for my strong token theme in red. Either option has a use, and I've been hoping for a playable Trumpet Blast effect in red for a while, and I think this is it. The flavor is cute too.

To be continued in part 2, I've attached too many images...
 
Continued from above!

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As I just mentioned, I run a heavy token theme in red, and wouldn't really consider this card otherwise. I really respect the extra damage from the Devil tokens here, making this, to me, a better comparison with the cube favorite Gideon, Ally of Zendikar's 0 ability than the "make a 1/1" ability on others. There was a lot of great discourse that really made me think about my walker inclusions that 1/1 token generation on a 4-mana walker is probably not good enough these days, but I see these Devils as dramatically better than that, and worth the price of admission, even without raising Zariel's loyalty.

While I don't current play Tibalt, Rakish Instigator, he is the 6th most-cubed red walker according to CubeCobra, and I don't think that's purely on the strength of C/Ubes. These devil tokens are a beating, and fighting off an unending wave of them is going to make for good gameplay. According to CubeCobra, the third-most frequently included red walker at 4 CMC is Chandra, Fire Artisan, and I do wholeheartedly think Zariel is more interesting and probably just as strong, if not stronger.

Green

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I was originally uninterested in this card, but I was won over by all the hype. The mini Curse of Predation that only costs an extra 2 is a reasonable cost. That said, not really sure what to take out for it. Maybe Jolrael, Mwonvuli Recluse? But she's much more interesting than this card. We'll see what the playgroup thinks of this one!

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Honestly may remove Tarmogoyf for this baby. What a fun card, I'd be pretty happy playing it even without the second ability, which guarantees a card draw if you have just one additional creature on board and attacking. The double G cost is a pain, but I don't currently have anything else at that cost in my list, and while green aggro isn't the biggest priority, it still has marginal support in my 720. I imagine this will stick in my list for a while to come, especially if there's any werewolf support in the next Innistrad set that's all about werewolves.

Colorless

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Is this Grafted Wargear copy number two with trinket text about Vecna that makes it harder to read? You bet. Do I run Empyrial Plate? Nope, but the life payment here makes up for the higher up-front cost. Will this actually make it into my cube? I'm not feeling all that positive, but only because I skip out on a bunch of great equipment already at 3, including a good chunk of the swords of x and y. Still, sweet card.


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I'm going to include all of these because they all range from good enough (Cave of the Frost Dragon) to excellent (Den of the Bugbear) and I think the frame is neat, if weird. Like I said before, the nostalgia part doesn't do much for me, but it's a fun aesthetic. Having a full cycle of them will make them more grokkable for my drafters / more expected, even if I normally don't care too much about completing cycles.

So in summation? Great core set replacement with neat mechanics, even if I'm not really willing to add the complexity of dungeons to my 720. I think these are the most interesting and exciting additions from the set, in order:

1. Ebondeath, Dracolitch
2. Man-Land Cycle
3. Werewolf Packleader
4. Imyrith, Desert Doom
5. Grazilaxx
6. You See a Pair of Goblins

Not the strongest set to come along, but more than a dozen relatively easy inclusions for me is never something I can complain about.
 
I don't know if it's new card fatigue, tainting magic with a crossover set or mechanics like dungeons and D20s but this set leaves me feeling a bit uninspired and grubby. I'll play some games with it on Arena and I'm sure things like dungeons will be better than expected and more interesting, but everything just doesn't seem super interesting. Maybe I'm getting old(er) and grumpy like Brad. I think I would have preferred the elegance of a core set. That being said, here's what I'm interested in:

Most interested:

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I like this as a pretty fair control magic effect. It's still annoying but it much more interactable with.

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I need to see this in action really as six mana is a lot, but I think this is a really interesting effect, and when designing for blue if you're not chucking in loads of counterspells you can end up with not a lot of variety sometimes. I do already have a fair few clones, but I think this one will lead to some cool situations. This is probably what I'm most interested in, but let's see about cost.

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A Ransack the Lab with some interesting residual effects and the opportunity to re-use via bounce etc.

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This is a great card for the tokens deck, with more bodies or way to kill them in one card. Definitely going to find room for this. Love that you can surprise block at instant speed if you have to.

Maybe, maybe, maybes?

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I feel like I should like this more as I have a bunch of cheap artifacts, some of which like to die, but even for me it feels a bit durdly. I dunno, maybe I do want to chain Terrarrion, into Perilous Myr, into Skyscanner into Trading Post.

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I should probably be a bit higher on this, and I probably will when I play with it, but it's not super interesting. I was excited when I first saw it as my cube loves an enchantment with an ETB effect. I think it's just the grumpyness talking.
 
For my includes: Ranger Class, Power Word Kill and Check for Traps were discussed above, but Loyal Warhound caught my eye since I love Knight of the White Orchid and it only requires a single white! Granted it's slightly worst since the land comes in tapped and a 3/1 vigilance isn't as great as a 2/2 first strike most of the time.



I also like Forsworn Paladin and I think I'm dropping Cryptbreaker for it. It wears equipment very well, it can ramp, and it can either buff itself or a larger threat like Knight of the Ebon Legion

 
During the spoiler season I felt like "this set isn't for my cube", but now I actually have quite a few I want to add.

Will test for sure:

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This card is great. Replaces itself, can block and trade, can get in for a reasonable amount of damage, is a solid card you can throw into every white deck but it also synergizes heavily with Blink and Lifegain, two of my biggest themes in white. I love flexible role player cards like this one, especially when they also add synergy potential.


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I love me some flexible removal that works against artifacts and enchantments, and this one is more interesting than another O-Ring or Pacifism effect. Most likely I'll cut Dreadful Apathy from my white removal suite.


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I like me some Flying Men/Suntail Hawks with upsides, especially when tos upsides work with the themes supported in the respective color (artifacts, blink/ninjutsu).


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It's not incredible, but I really want to have more enchantment removal in black, so these can be destroyed by three colors ({W}{B}{G}), just like artifacts ({R}{G}{W}). Also, this card's showcase version looks awesome!


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I think this is the least parasitic goblin lord we have(?). It reads a bit pushed, but I think (hope) it will be fine in my environment.


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This one is tricky. I don't kno the cut yet, but I do now I want this. I love the flexibility of this being either a token producer OR a token payoff. The best Trumpet Blast ever?


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This guy was one of the first spoiled cards and since I'm planning with him. I think I like him most among all the {R/W} equipment signposts, but I might be biased because I like this showcase style quite a bit.
 
But wait, there's more ...

Have them on my watch list:

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I like this less than Ancestral Blade and Barbed Spike, which seem more useful if your deck doesn't care about artifacts/equipment and/or has lots of creatures that have the keywords for a pure stats boost.


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I like this quite a bit, but I don't really want to cut any of my counterspells right now ...


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This does so much. It gives you a treasure on etb that can be used as a clue. It's a sacrifice outlet with a pretty good effect (drawing cards!). It also has the right body to be recurred and grind out some nice value. I feel like I have to find a cut for this at some point. Imagine how sweet it was if it would be able to sac any artifact (or creature) ...


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Landfall payoff, landfall enabler, finisher ... it does all that archetype wants in one saga .. oh no, wait, that's not a saga. I fear to create confusion when I add classes now. I have players that probably haven't even seen sagas before, and I don't like these cards enough to decrease accessibility like that.


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Modal spells like this are always worth a look. It's either a bad Harmonize or a (very) bad Overrun, but both effects can be gas in the right situation even toned down that much.


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The second premier set in a row with green as part of a lifegain theme? That's fitting, as I was just trying to expand that theme into this color. I am still waiting for the perfect lifegain payoff in mono green, but this one at least gets closer than the other before ... but not close enough to kick out another green card right now. Being a giant, deadly wall when you don't draw your lifegain effects however is a pretty neat fail case.
 
Only a handful of main cube inclusions this time:

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I like Portable Hole as a clean answer to cheap creatures early in game along with being an artifact to open up other synergies with stuff like Toolcraft Exemplar or serving as "hits" for cards like Herald of Anguish or a more natural fodder target for Daretti, Scrap Savant. The big issue with a lot of artifact based decks for a long time was the need to play suboptimal cards just to hit a virtual threshold within your environment, but nowadays each serviceable new printing like this makes it that much more viable.

I like both the Priest and Circle as additional blink support in my U/W/x Blink decks that crop up every now and then. Priest isn't exciting, but it's a solid roleplayer along the lines of Sea Gate Oracle which was serviceable for many years as a control roadblock. This has additional value with more power, the ability to slightly buff your life total against more aggressive decks, and honestly just being another Wall of Omens effect in a color that would love to utilize it. If I can fodder curve with Wall and Priest up to a Wrath before stabilizing with a card Teferi, Hero of Dominaria or Cavalier of Gales that's just perfect for a UW Control deck. Slots in very well into blink decks being right in color with Soulherder and Yorion, Sky Nomad. I'll take all the additional draw card effects that aren't embarrassing to deploy or recur.

I like Teleportation Circle specifically as an alternate to Thassa, Deep-Dwelling to help flesh out the Soulherder decks. More of these kind of effects are always appreciated for redundancy and 4 mana is the sweet spot to curve into with all the impact 3s we have ranging from the new Priest to roleplayers like Blade Splicer, Elite Spellbinder and Man-O'-War. 5 mana for something like Conjurer's Closet always felt a turn too slow, but 4 mana is right in the sweet spot for "do-nothing" enchantments and totally viable in my environment.

Aside from those 3 cards I'm also adding the manland cycle into my Utility Land Draft:

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I'm a fan of the Rabblemaster and Hydra lands, can see those being activated more frequently than the other 3 due to the nature of the decks that would want them. I like manlands in general so I expect all to see play here and there. Might give Sylvan Advocate a run again at some point for some extra synergies to explore. The 5C Manland deck a friend of mine drafted a few years back is still one of the more unique decks I'd ever seen come out of my cube.
 
Ebondeath, Ranger Class, and the creature-lands. Maybe also Dancing Sword and/or Loyal Warhound, I haven't decided.

(also this thread should have waited two days, we're getting the Commander spoilers tomorrow and the day after, and we did get Laelia last set in the Commander decks...)
Came back to quote myself and laugh at the thought that any of these die-roll cards could ever be good anywhere.

Seriously, you're going to have to bust out the entire Crown Royal dice bag, they've got cards asking for a d4, a d8, a d10, a d12, as well as the d20.

(that one stag looks okay, but I guess I should have expected lots of dice?)
 
Although, I must admit, one of these is an actual card:

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Not sure if it's an actual good card, it's a weird combo of high and low power level, but I do like it.
 
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I think this is the least parasitic goblin lord we have(?). It reads a bit pushed, but I think (hope) it will be fine in my environment.
I don't really see how this is pushed. It's a bear with two-mana firebreathing. Sure it can give other gobbos a boost if they exist on the board which is nice, but I don't see that advantage being too big.

I think the card looks decent, certainly good at lower power levels, but I think in 2021 it's not anything too special from a power perspective. A non-zero amount of this card's value comes from the clean design and flavor, which is good.
 
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Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
I don't really see how this is pushed. It's a bear with two-mana firebreathing. Sure it can give other gobbos a boost if they exist on the board which is nice, but I don't see that advantage being too big.

I think the card looks decent, certainly good at lower power levels, but I think in 2021 it's not anything too special from a power perspective. A non-zero amount of this card's value comes from the clean design and flavor, which is good.
But Train, it's a red 2/2 with upside! At uncommon! Red is not supposed to get efficient two mana value 2/2 creatures, without a downside! What? Vanillas, are okay now? What?! They don't even need to be vanilla anymore?! They can even be all upside nowadays?! Utter madness, if you ask me!
 
Additional testing for the commander cards!

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Death Tyrant
As discussed in the spoiler thread, I'm a big fan of this big eye. Love a recurring threat at the top of a curve, and plays nicely with multiple different archetypes in black I support. Maybe not too long for cube like so many other 5-drops, but I'm satisfied for now.

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Hellish Rebuke
Black's Settle the Wreckage? It's pretty brutal to your opponent, but taking the hits yourself is not ideal when it comes to removal. Still considering this, will have to see what my playgroup thinks.

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Chaos Dragon
This is a funny, fun card. Again, will need to see what my playgroup thinks, the power's not really there but it is fun.

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Midnight Pathligher
Neat enabler and powerful tempo card, making races quite interesting. Even with my small legends-matter theme, there's still not too many in my list such that this is basically a cheaper multicolor Sun Quan, Lord of Wu, which I did run in my cube for its first 4-5 years of existence! The issue is that I'm not running any Dungeon cards at this point in time, and I don't really want to make an exception for a single card. The card is nearly there even without that text, so it's disappointing, but I'll probably be skipping it.

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Ebony Fly
Easy include! I don't run signets as to keep the artifact mana at my cube at a reasonable level and give green the identity as the fixing/ramp color, but I still have a few 2 CMC mana rock slots available, and this is probably one of the better ones. It becomes a 3.5/3.5 flier on average for 4 mana, which is more than fair for a rock, but its ability to jump another creature is a real ability and not just gravy. Looking forward to playing with this little fly.

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Clay Golem
It may cost you 10 mana across what's likely to be 2 turns to get this colorless Vindicate, but it's 1) a 4 CMC 4/4, 2) becomes huge post-monstrosity, and 3) is still a colorless Vindicate. I'm not certain this will remain in cube forever, but I've tried out Meteor Golem and it had a role but was just too expensive. The Clay Golem just seems much better. I wouldn't be able to get away with it if I didn't run a 720 list, but I've got space for this questionable pick.
 
Although, I must admit, one of these is an actual card:

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Not sure if it's an actual good card, it's a weird combo of high and low power level, but I do like it.
One day I'll play this card in a deck with Meloku, and I'll be happy
 

Grazilaxx, Illithid Scholar

Aggressive blue creatures without evasion are hard to come by, and this has a unique ability that is both generically useful, but particularly with blink. It dramatically changes combat calculations.

It rewards aggression, but not necessarily in an all-out form. It rewards connecting with a single small threat like aggro-control decks do. Edric, Spymaster of Trest was too strong and snowbally for my cube, but this might be just right.

Lastly, the flavor is right on point! Mind flayers are cunning and have psionic powers that play with their prey's mind. Then, when the mind flayer grasps their prey, they devour their brain.


Skullport Merchant

Ravnic already talked about this, and I'll be testing this one as well! Seems like a great versatile sacrifice engine that has a smaller delta between sacrificing tokens vs small creatures due to the more powerful and more expensive ability.
 
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