Aikola's Budget Cube

[Aikola]

http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/19848

After lurking for a few weeks I thought it was about time to post up my latest cube and introduce myself.

My name is Mark and I am from the UK, I have been cubing for about 6 months and built myself a powerful singleton cube, I have been playing since '97 so used quite a few cards I already had, however I found myself with the problem that I wont cube with anyone else other than my best friend as I am paranoid that a few cards would be 'missing' at the end.

So while I still find my cube fun, I have decided to build a cube that I wouldn't mind sharing with other people, I have set myself a loose budget of £10 a card, I have also (thanks to some persuading articles by Mr Waddell) come to the decision that I would break singleton.

I wanted a completely different experience from this cube but still want others to enjoy it so there are very little vanilla creatures, however what I don't want is for someone to look at a pack of 15 cards and not have a clue what card to pick due to every card being too complicated.

A few things I have tried to build into the cube.
Battle tricks - Morph, Flash, Instants that save/pump creatures.
Less 2-1's - I think that I have been to strict on this as every piece of removal has some kind of restriction so I would like to revise this.
Recursive Creatures and cards that benefit from this - Testing will tell if I have this right.
Counters - Lots of cards with counters and proliferate.
Life Matters - White has no direction at the moment, life gain is interesting as it will lead to games of attrition but I would also like to have some cards benefit from it.
Humans - I love this tribe and feel that they arn't powerful enough by themselves but feel there are benefits to running some of the cards already.

One problem I have run into with the cube being on a budget is that while I can get a hold of Gold Bordered Fetches quite cheap the Zendikar ones are still out of the price range, I am unsure whether to run one side of the 'full set' making certain colour types more powerful.

Looking forward to any problem solving you guys can come up with... and nice to meet you.

 

[Laz]

Wow, there is lots going on in that list. Thought dump.

2x Zuran Orb? I instantly looked for the Fast Bond/Crucible of Worlds. I mean, Loam is there, but it is pretty good at feeding itself. You also two 'return a land' Moonfolk (Meloku and Soratami Cloudskater. Is there some kind of punish having lots of lands/reward having few lands in play dynamic I am missing?

3x Lotus Petal? What are you looking for Petal to do?

Shackles and Grave Titan are probably oppressive at this power level (actually at many power levels...)

Inner-Flame Acolyte but not the awesome actual combat trick Briarhorn?

Cloudfin Raptor is really under-supported in Blue, I imagine it is more of a Blue/Green card, in which case you might want to double up on Experiment One instead.

You have probably read the +1/+1 counters thread based on your pseudo proliferate theme. Probably want to consider some of the 'counters-matter' Outlast guys from KTK. They are a little weak for traditional cubes, but supported, and at a lower power level, seem like a good fit.

Given the number of supremely recursive creatures you have (My count is 8, that is many lots), you are going to want some removal that deals with them effectively. If you have ever had the pleasure of facing down a multiple Gravecrawler draw you will know why this is really important.

Living Death is not a real wrath (which you have a real shortage of. I presume they are still to be added). It is however interesting. I haven't played much with it in cube, so no idea how it works as an archetype. My imagining is that it is a complete blowout first time you play it, then awkward from then on out.

Fetches improve your environment immeasurably. Consider proxying.

Also, Welcome!

 

[Aikola]

Thank you for taking the time to look at my list, this is the first time I have built a cube from scratch.

2x Zuran Orb? I instantly looked for the Fast Bond/Crucible of Worlds. I mean, Loam is there, but it is pretty good at feeding itself. You also two 'return a land' Moonfolk (Meloku and Soratami Cloudskater. Is there some kind of punish having lots of lands/reward having few lands in play dynamic I am missing?

In my other cube Zuran Orb is an amazing card and plenty of times I have seen it win games for people, especially if the games go long, its a card I would like to have more of, however as you mentioned there is certainly a punishment on lands especially in blue so I definitely need to revise this.

3x Lotus Petal? What are you looking for Petal to do?

Going back to the original cube (Sorry there will be a lot of this), I have fast mana including Sol Ring, Mana Vault and there is always a nice feeling about getting out a creature or playing a spell above curve, since the others are way too powerful for this I thought the short burst of mana from Petals would be better suited.

Shackles and Grave Titan are probably oppressive at this power level (actually at many power levels...)

You're right, Grave Titan will certainly be getting cut, Shackles however I would like to at least test out.

Inner-Flame Acolyte but not the awesome actual combat trick Briarhorn?

I have a list on my phone of cards that I think I should add, he is on it.

Cloudfin Raptor is really under-supported in Blue, I imagine it is more of a Blue/Green card, in which case you might want to double up on Experiment One instead.

There was a deck in standard a year or so ago and while its too under powered for my cube I would like to try and make it possible in this cube, maybe I need to stop trying to make it happen and see if it gets built around to start with and then build on that. (The deck focused on Cloudfin Raptor turn 1, Turn 2 Young Wolf -> Rapid Hybridization) Basically the Wolf evolved the Raptor twice and then the Frog Lizard did too and you ended up with a 3/4 Flying 3/3 and a 2/2 on turn 2.

You have probably read the +1/+1 counters thread based on your pseudo proliferate theme. Probably want to consider some of the 'counters-matter' Outlast guys from KTK. They are a little weak for traditional cubes, but supported, and at a lower power level, seem like a good fit.

I read an article on Heroic the other day which gave me a few ideas for white, being Humans help too, I shall have a look about and see if I can find it.

Given the number of supremely recursive creatures you have (My count is 8, that is many lots), you are going to want some removal that deals with them effectively. If you have ever had the pleasure of facing down a multiple Gravecrawler draw you will know why this is really important.

I faced a Zombies deck in standard once, that was fairly annoying, I have some extra black cards I would like to add so a couple of them will get the chop.

Living Death is not a real wrath (which you have a real shortage of. I presume they are still to be added). It is however interesting. I haven't played much with it in cube, so no idea how it works as an archetype. My imagining is that it is a complete blowout first time you play it, then awkward from then on out.

Yeah a fair few cards are still missing, however I have never seen Living Death as a wrath spell as such, I feel its a build around me card and see it as more of a raise the dead card, especially if your board presence is lacking and you attack in with your last few weak creatures against the opponents powerhouses, then drop this, its certainly an interesting card, do you think I should drop one?

Fetches improve your environment immeasurably. Consider proxying.
Aaaaah my worst nightmare, I have 1 proxy in my other cube which is a Tarmogoyf I am trying to trade into a real copy, Im not a fan of proxying but it might have to be done... or I run the risk of 5 expensive cards in the list.

Also, Welcome!
Thank you, its nice to be here.[/quote]

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

The three lotus petals seem like something to keep an eye on. Since they are the only source of fast mana in your cube, i'm guessing they can enable some brutal plays above the power level of the rest of the cube. What those would be I have no idea, but having a monopoly on a cube's fast mana seems like a good place to be during a draft. I could see them either becoming very abusable, or a boring auto-pick.

The reanimation package also seems like it might be too potent compared to the rest of the environment. Their is a lot of redundancy both in cheap reanimation effects and entomb effect in a small list.

In such a small list, I would be very hesistant about breaking singleton, and especially going up to three of any one card. It won't take very long before you get tired of seeing a lot of those cards in every draft week after week.

Like the list though!

 

[Aikola]

The three lotus petals seem like something to keep an eye on. Since they are the only source of fast mana in your cube, i'm guessing they can enable some brutal plays above the power level of the rest of the cube. What those would be I have no idea, but having a monopoly on a cube's fast mana seems like a good place to be during a draft. I could see them either becoming very abusable, or a boring auto-pick.

The reanimation package also seems like it might be too potent compared to the rest of the environment. Their is a lot of redundancy both in cheap reanimation effects and entomb effect in a small list.

In such a small list, I would be very hesistant about breaking singleton, and especially going up to three of any one card. It won't take very long before you get tired of seeing a lot of those cards in every draft week after week.

Like the list though!

Thank you for your input, I was browsing your cube yesterday and reading your well written write up about it and I feel that I want my power level to sit somewhere similar to yours.

I removed 3 recursive creatures yesterday and will be doing an update on white in the next few days, in regards to the reanimation I actually have copies of Dread Return and Unburial Rites sitting in a folder not doing much so I will be swapping out the powerful 2 drops, how have you found cards like Mulch and Grisly Salvage in a lower/slower enviroment?

I think I took the direction of breaking singleton completely wrong and just added a load of cards I wanted to see more of, maybe I should just keep an open mind about it and see if the cube actually needs them first.

Don't know what to do about the Lotus Petal's maybe I should just take them out for now, my idea for having more than one was that not only one person would end up with it resulting in a fairer enviroment.. however I didn't think about what happens if someone snags all 3.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Breaking singleton can be tricky. Sometimes its good to do for a while just because it increases the chance that people will explore an archetype or part of your cube, sometimes you might want to do it to get information about how well an idea works, other times its essential to do to have certain interactions central to your cube's gameplay. The main issue with it, especially with gimicky cards, is stricking a balance between diversity of cards for deckbuilding in the cube vs. providing that density of irreplacable effects that make a cube fun or feel unique.

Mulch and grisly salvage really want specific environments. In my cube I have a heavy mill, self-mill, and graveyard theme, and those cards power a lot of interactions; from setting up huge living deaths, to making sure that mana hungry psudo ramp/ranimator G/B/x decks hit 5-7 mana while also powering their graveyard cards In your environment they look like they would probably be a bit too narrow.

It’s hard to say about the lotus petals. At this point, my own experiences (and the excellent observations made by Ars Arcanum) have me viewing limited formats as being defined by their flaws or absences, with most of the challenge of drafting and deckbuilding coming down to how you can creatively address those format deficiencies. I know that sounds critical or negative, but it really isn't: magic is a game, and solving those format deficiencies are the puzzles that make the game interesting.

So, from that perspective, you can see how the lotus petals would jump out at me. The cube isn't really designed to provide powerful curve breaking plays, and here are three cards that uniquely allow you to do that. Now, that could be really bad if it enables deck building and plays that minimize interaction and meaningful decision making, but it could also be really good if it allows for unique exciting decks that toe the line of what feels fair but doesn’t ever really cross it. Unless you can see a clear and compelling argument that they will cause a bunch of feel bads when drafting, I would probably keep them in just to see what happens.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Here's my thoughts on lotus petal: I think what you want is something more along the lines of dark ritual.
Accellerating out sweet plays is a great feeling, but you're certainly right in that sol ring does things a little too well for people to be having fun.

Jumping the curve by one isn't really all that impressive however. You don't see constructed aggro decks with simian spirit guide: He's usually relegated to combo decks only.

The reason I suggust dark ritual is for two reasons: 1) Jumping the curve by 2 once is usually worth spending a card for, but not really unbeatable and 2) Is this a thing you want everyone to be able to do? Lotus petal is an artifact. Usually giving up cards for short term gain like this is a very red or black feeling, is it going to mess up how you want people to play if white or blue decks can do it?

I wouldn't worry too much about someone getting all 3 petals and ritualing out a 4 drop on turn 1. If they want to put all their eggs in one basket like that, there's a high likelihood it will get doom bladed after attacking once or twice.

If the creature they put out simply can't be dealt with or killed them in that time, I think the problem lies with the creature, not with lotus petal.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

I wouldn't worry too much about someone getting all 3 petals and ritualing out a 4 drop on turn 1. If they want to put all their eggs in one basket like that, there's a high likelihood it will get doom bladed after attacking once or twice.

I'm thinking more along the lines of lotus petal with cards like entomb and reanimate; you pretty much have a nasty combo deck right there.

Though I think my main concern is the question you pointed out: do we really want to enable breaking the curve? Is turn 2 birthing pod ok, or a turn 3-4 thragtusk (with mana dork help). Will these be fun plays? Should the entomb->reanimate removal check be on turn 1?

I'm sure there is a line here with curve breaking in general, just not sure where it falls.