General Alchemy nonsense / "Seek" mechanic

They've got this thing on Arena with digital-only cards. Ostensibly these all had digital-only mechanics, but they print ones that could be regular-ass silver bordered cards or even straight up main set includes. There's nearly 800 of them as of time of this post. This thread is for discussing the paltry handful that would be dope-ass Cube cards, or could be with a line of rules text stripped off. A lot of these are marginal cards that also say 'seek', which is kind of like drawing a card, and which it's possible to play in paper as a sort of pseudo-cascade-into-your-hand. On Arena, Seek doesn't disrupt your library order, but in paper you gotta reveal cards from the top of your library until you find a legal hit, reveal it, put it into your hand, then shuffle. You can sort of do 'perpetual' with pencil and paper but it's too much of a hassle to be worth it; Seek is potentially worth it. "Spellbooks" are a nightmare, as is "Conjure". "Boons" are eminently doable but also require tracking on either a token, pad, or a diligent player who remembers her triggers. Below is the list of cards I think could conceivably go in a Cube:

 
There's a lot of really cool cards and designs here.

Emporium Thopterist is my favorite. I think "conjure" is way easier than seek in most cases, personally, since it just makes a token. Seek reveals a lot of information about decks and even the card you're seeking, which is not how the mechanic is meant to work....but I think it's fine all the same. Double team is probably fine as well, since it just comes in with a token (more or less). Anyways, here are the (many) cards I'd run if they were printed in paper, more or less ranked by my interest:



Stuff like Putrefying Rotboar is pretty cool, you just have to do honor system / stickers or something. it's not worth it though.

I really like Teysa of the Ghost Council as a Vorthos. It's a super novel and important design that should have been in paper.

(and yes, Leaf-Leap Guide is way too busted. it'd be way more fun and interesting with counters instead)
 
I'm turned off by the majority of alchemy designs that are just absurd card advantage on a stick, but I think there are some diamonds in the rough, especially if you're willing to work for them. As it stands I'm probably running more in my cube than 99% of people already.

As you've pointed out some are more difficult to implement than others, and I actually think Seek is one of the harder mechanics to translate. You want to rephrase it to be like Abundant Harvest, but that takes a lot of text. One day we'll get a main set mechanic that lets us shortcut this to something like "Discover a nonland card', but even then we'll need a wall of reminder text to try and explain it.

Since these started less wordy, there's room to build the 'Seek' text into their descriptions. You could add a shuffle at the beginning or end but I don't think it's worth it.
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I'm surprised you're so turned off by conjure, since it's pretty trivial if you just bring the corresponding things they conjure along. Like these cards really aren't too different.



I use clear outer sleeves, so I can just slip a 'Training Grounds' into the backside of Trackhand Trainer during draft so the conjured card is there when they need it (and for them to see what the card does). You could always write out what it does too if you want to keep the cards separate, like I did on Swarm Saboteur.

Here are some fun examples:
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Chitinous Crawler I'm afraid might be a little too difficult without some dry erase tokens nearby. It would go hard with the new Twilight Diviner though. See also the whole 'Emerald Collector' cycle, which I've seen work well in an un-powered environment that's into artifacts, but are a little too 'good-stuff' for me.

Boons are also easier side to track IMO, though I'd argue you need to create a token to go with them.
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This also shows how you can more easily implement some 'perpetual' effects, since you could just tuck the tracker underneath the creature as a reminder.

Balance wise Swiftspear's Teachings is actually pretty reasonable now since it's been nerfed to process OR haste, but you could run it whichever way you please to suit your power level.

The 'Starting Player' cards are also easy includes, though their designs are for the most part pretty uninspired. You could have a marker for this but IMO it's kinda unnecessary:

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Surgical Metamorph is a 'fairer' Phyrexian Metamorph in that you have to be playing blue, but it makes up for it since you can also copy planeswalkers and things.

Lastly it's worth mentioning the Alchemy re-balances. Mostly relevant for buffing my favorite tribe, Ninjas.



These are all easy swaps for their regular counterparts. Though I've gotten feedback that it's hard to tell what's changed. I've made this more obvious on my copies but I ran out of images I can upload for this post.

Last misc. shoutout:

Which is made playable in paper by just adding 'Shuffle your library' to the start and exile 3 from the top.

There's even more in my maybe-list but I figure that's enough for now. If anyone else has tips for implementing some of these effects I would love to know! I know some people who have made spell-books work but that level of effort / complexity is where I think it's really not worth it.
 
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One day we'll get a main set mechanic that lets us shortcut this to something like "Discover a nonland card', but even then we'll need a wall of reminder text to try and explain it.
"cascade into" and I don't care that it's not what cascade does, it's good enough shorthand!

(you can tell I would never do this with people who were not as invested in Magic as I am)
 
I've never seen that version of Mentor's Guidance -- what a lovely card! I'd be jazzed to run it.

...but the problem I have with adding an Alchemy rebalance is that it's a slippery slope. There's no real reason why I shouldn't then edit a bunch of other cards only really intended for retail limited that have interesting designs by chopping off a mana.

It's kind of like why I haven't bit the bullet to print out the Through the Omenpaths versions of Spiderman cards.
 
...but the problem I have with adding an Alchemy rebalance is that it's a slippery slope. There's no real reason why I shouldn't then edit a bunch of other cards only really intended for retail limited that have interesting designs by chopping off a mana.
yeah ... you're spot on with that. It is a slippery slope and Alchemy was my gateway drug. Go down that route at your own peril as you'll start looking at your cube in a very different way!
 
I'm surprised you're so turned off by conjure, since it's pretty trivial if you just bring the corresponding things they conjure along. Like these cards really aren't too different.

I think the main challenge for conjuring is that conjured cards being cards adds extra logistical problems that tokens don't have. I think you'd have to be careful not to stick something like Mine Security in a format that includes flickering or recursion, because then you run into the problem of predicting how many modified Flametongue Kavus you'll need to bring to Cube night.

A surprising number of Alchemy cards would be really reasonable in a Telepathy cube, especially if you were careful about your recursion. A lot of the issues with perpetual changes come down to "it's annoying and/or hard to track state on unstacked cards that aren't lying flat on the table", and everyone literally having all their cards on the table helps simplify that.

...

I just wish there was a way to set Cockatrice up that made messing around with Alchemy mechanics less of a faff. It can do conjuring reasonably well (since you can make tokens that don't disappear on leaving the battlefield), but it can't do anything else.
 
I'm not totally against retooling some of the cards a little to have basically the same effect. If a card wants you to draft from a spellbook, for example, take a look at how good the spellbook is and turn it into a draw or an impulse draw. Power level can remain similar while being much more playable in paper.

Boseiju Pathlighter has a strong selection of lands to choose from. It could probably be an ETB Sylvan Scrying in a cube or only let it grab lands with a basic land type or something.

That said, I totally get the "slippery slope" argument as well as potential issues with proxies or whatever. Personally, I'm desperate.
 
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It's just that there are like 30k real magic cards to choose from, so I don't think any cube needs alchemy proxies.

Fundamentally, this is where I've landed. My on-deck binder is so deeply full that I'm considering switching to one double the size, which still will not be able to fit in everything I want in it. Nearly every card in my Cube represents two that could reasonably take its place.

I don't want to start down the slippery slope because it is just so slippery. The "why not?" is such an enticing question, but I know my playgroup doesn't want custom cards, so I don't think going in the Alchemy direction is what I want to do.

Still...I'm sure one day I'll make the plunge. I already have the occasional playtest / un / unknown event card, I just want a Isamaru and Yoshimaru with art that I didn't have to rip from the internet.
 
The main problem with Alchemy is that, they are so obsessed with justifying making them only digital that they add crap to what would otherwise be a great design. Fortunately, there are some cards that not only function in paper, but have already been printed in paper:



De facto, conjure is no more of a problem than this little guy:



You can print a couple copies of the card, it's fine.

Most cards with Perpetually don't have any reasons to use it. However, you can easily prepare a piece of cardboard with the extra text that slides inside the sleeve.

As for seek...yeah it works if you rewrite it to work like cascade. The main issue is the lack of text and the fact that some of them are highly exploitable or central for a digital-only mechanic. It's also given way too easily, I think some abilities are undercosted given the ability to draw extra cards.

I currently run two Alchemy cards:



Indris is extremely valuable since it's a several archetypes payoffs at once. It replaces and improves on a series of cards many of us have considered running but that were too clunky, powerful or weak:



It's both a storm enabler and a win-condition. It's a good, unique reanimator target, allowing crossover between both archetype. It's fine in control, easy to get value from but without a backbreaking ETB or brutal locks of Niv-Mizzet, Tyrant or Horror. It can work like Griselbrand does in combo without being an I-win button. It's also a good target for Seething Song and even a curve-topper in some tempo or midrange decks.

It's also easy to understand and remarkably simple. You only need a proxy lighting bolt with "storm" written on it. And it doesn't even have to go for the full kill, it's good backed by a single counterspell, with a small 2-spell storm as removal or what have you.

The only issue is the bad art and creature type.



This is a rebalanced card, pushing a great but weak design into one you can actually play. A 3/3 is the sweet spot for the cost and effect, allows the Sage to save itself or other creatures from removal and is just fun to play.

It also has a name that actually works, making it easy for me to include and justify.

Some other stuff I like:



I don't run this only because white is already good enough without getting access to a one-mana discard spell. I would remove the "becomes white" part, though, it adds nothing.



This is an interesting cycle. At their core, they are Thraben Inspectors that draw you an artifact, a very interesting baseline. Pearl Collector is awful and not worth mentioning, but the rest are worth a look.

Emerald Collector has the most play value as a Curiosity on legs. It has a lower power level than the rest and requires some cube tweaking to make it feasible to draw the mox, but it's otherwise fine.

Ruby Collector is also low-powered, but it pumps for 1R which is a powerful effect.

Sapphire Collector is a powerful card. While expensive, it can give you really explosive turns. Ritual, flashback the ritual, get mox, play a kill spell, attack for 7 or more. I suspect it will see more play for its flashback ability than anything else, though.

Jet Collector is a bit dumb. It's trivial to get the mox, making its baseline a 1G rampant growth, and the second ability is really, really powerful. I'm wary of this type of recursion so I've avoided it.



This looks like a riot and it's a human to boot. But, even though I've heard good things, I'm wary of giving the opponent a 5/3



This seems really interesting! The question is, what can you actually do with it? I fear it would just look for the quickest recursive loop, like a blinker, and then get another piece when it ETBs again. That's kind of nasty and not too compelling.



This is appealing as a gruul card but it's just pure value with no actual synergy.



This should have a ton of applications. It draws you cards, it creates artifacts, it gives you a slow but steady amount of flying 3/1...there must be good uses for it



Another interesting spell that opens the door for all kinds of synergies: Tokens, discarding cards for value, equipment....



A Thraben Inspector that makes Training Grounds rather than a clue. Is that useful? Perhaps for some it might be, which is why I list it here. Note that you need an actual use for Training Grounds or this will simply be a blink payoff (blink it, get two Training Grounds so you can draw cards for a single mana).



The first ability seems way too strong, since it's the best part of Sentinel of the Nameless City. I wanted this for the second ability since it seems good in a variey of decks and promotes equipment in blue, but together they seem too strong. The magpies also come into play untapped, which is a problem since they are 1/3s.



This seems like a potential competitor for Scrapheap Scrounger, but I'm unsure of the advantages and drawbacks it may have in practice. Seems more "cute" than usable, though it gives you more artifact creature triggers if you need them for any reason.



This is terrible! It sticks five lands into your deck, do not play this!



This is a Massacre Wurm that is far less backbreaking since you don't get both the kill and life loss. Interesting if you want that kind of wrath effect on a creature.
 
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