Attack on Cube (2021 Update)

[jerichoalar]

2/2 for : watchers of the dead
Draft matters : Garbage Fire (Paliano if it needs to be colorless)
Graveyard matters : Desecrated Tomb (or oversold cemetery if it can be colored)
Wildcard Pick : pithing spyglass

 

[blacksmithy]

Ooh Desecrated Tomb looks handy in my cube. Thanks!
Also want to get rid of Cogwork Librarian and Weight Advantage.

 

[jerichoalar]

Re: desecrated tomb, I do occasionally have drafters misunderstanding how it interacts with mass exile effects (you get One bat). It’s incredible otherwise and I really like how the card enables using “graveyard hate” effects as a personal value engine instead.

(also it can do pretty intense things with stuff like tortured existence too!)

 

[blacksmithy]

Finally finished and uploaded the 2021 update, which is a move to a very low mana curve and downsize to 180:
https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/60218a090cfb46103f87e2ef

 

[inscho]

Love it, a really tight looking list to me. As someone that is tinkering with their own 180 cube, I have vested interest. I really like so many of the decisions here. Seeing Winter Orb next to Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose gives me heart palpitations (in a good way). What’s your preferred method of drafting?

A few quick questions/comments:
- What’s Quicken for?
- I love Vesperlark in 180, but I'd like to see a little more play for it in the boros pairing
- Maybe Ancestral Blade over Maul of Skyclaves? You lose some power but gain some blink tricks, body for sacrificing, fetchable with tribute mage? I do like how punchy Maul is, and that currently the premium equipment in the cube isn't colorless.
-Collective Brutality? Removal, discard outlet, triggers vito
-Why Arcane Denial?
-Shrine of Loyal Legions? Fetchable with tribute mage. Plays with Skyfisher. Lives under Winter Orb and Static Orb well. Fuel for Pia and Kiran...
-Is the reach on Noose Constrictor too good against your blue section to run it over Mongrel?
- I feel Watcher for Tomorrow is a savvy card for a micro cube. It’s a blink payoff, good body to sacrifice in dimir. Reasonable in Aggro and Control contexts. Over Augur? 1 Toughness for Tetsuko. Maybe not right here but just mentioning it as a card I’ve considered at 180.


There's obviously been a lot of care taken into the curation here. So I think I know the answer to some of these points, but I just wanted to pick your brain some

 

[blacksmithy]

hey thanks for checking it out! i’ll try to answer these questions in order:
-normally i do a 2 player grid, but i haven’t been able to try 4 players yet. basic plan there is to do 3x15 packs, but i am open to suggestions there as that’s literally just a default method in my mind.
-Quicken is kind of a pet card, but i really like the lines it opens up (flash out a Sunlance/Forked Bolt/etc) while still being an instant speed cantrip.
-I considered Ancestral Blade and may include it if i upsize to 270. Currently i just feel it’s low impact, but the synergy is there for it in my white section. i would run both before cutting Maul, it’s just an awesome equipment.
-Collective Brutality is another one i considered, after testing so far, i’d probably cut Inscription of Ruin for it as that card underperforms.
-Arcane Denial is a 2 mana hard counter that draws you a card! sure it draws them two cards but it counters ANYTHING regardless of how much extra mana they have. if you’re aggro you can use it to stop their 4 mana wrath or Restoration Angel, if you’re control you can recoup the card disadvantage with said wrath or a straight draw effect later. i’m very high on Denial.
-Shrine of Loyal Legions was in the list until a late round of cuts and would probably make it at 270.
-Don’t get mad.... i just already had Mongrel and didn’t feel like buying Constrictor. i’m buying a few cards with birthday money soon and will probably throw it in the buy list as Mongrel’s color change clause does nothing in the current list.
-Watcher for Tomorrow was another one on the short waitlist. it would almost surely make it at 270 but would probably also make it in after more testing if there’s a blue creature that disappoints.

 

[blacksmithy]

just added 10 more prismatic vista and a couple chromatic baubles so that i can try 6x8 pack drafting, i’m updating the custom draft formats now

 

[inscho]

I considered Ancestral Blade and may include it if i upsize to 270. Currently i just feel it’s low impact, but the synergy is there for it in my white section. i would run both before cutting Maul, it’s just an awesome equipment.

I find myself too often leaning towards the a more middling effect if it provides more intersection points. This becomes compounded at 180. I think you've found a really interesting balance here. Plenty of nuance, but the list has teeth.

Collective Brutality is another one i considered, after testing so far, i’d probably cut Inscription of Ruin for it as that card underperforms.

I like Inscription, but it does feel a little slow for the format.

Quicken is kind of a pet card, but i really like the lines it opens up (flash out a Sunlance/Forked Bolt/etc) while still being an instant speed cantrip

Yeah, I knew at least part of the decision was having something more interesting than a simple draw spell to put under scepter.

Don’t get mad.... i just already had Mongrel and didn’t feel like buying Constrictor. i’m buying a few cards with birthday money soon and will probably throw it in the buy list as Mongrel’s color change clause does nothing in the current list.

10 cents well spent!

I would've never considered Birthing Pod at 180, but in reducing your format's average cmc so drastically you really open up its utility. Really elegant solution.

Another card I'd keep on your radar if it's not already is Winding Way. I really like it for a small cube as it goes in everything, and is elegant and interesting. I'm considering a more simplified format at 180, so it is under consideration over Loam...which is obviously more valuable as an engine piece here. But the utility of being a mulch or digging for multiple creatures makes it slot really nicely in a wide range of decks in my experience.

Is Executioner's Capsule too good? In addition to be a sweet with Emry, Lurker of the Loch and a Trinket Mage target, I really enjoy effects that sit on the board and out of your hand with a card like Asylum Visitor. Works with Sevinne's Reclamation too

How has Valakut Exploration been for you? It's super interesting to me, and I've considered it over Tectonic Reformation in my main cube. It feels much more proactive, and has some really interesting possibilities with Scapeshift/Splendid Reclamation effects

 

[blacksmithy]

I find myself too often leaning towards the a more middling effect if it provides more intersection points. This becomes compounded at 180. I think you've found a really interesting balance here. Plenty of nuance, but the list has teeth.



I like Inscription, but it does feel a little slow for the format.



Yeah, I knew at least part of the decision was having something more interesting than a simple draw spell to put under scepter.



10 cents well spent!

I would've never considered Birthing Pod at 180, but in reducing your format's average cmc so drastically you really open up its utility. Really elegant solution.

i’m hoping Pod is fast enough, but i think it will find a home as a curve topping mana sink if nothing else. i absolutely designed the top of the green creature curve (swagtusk and Honored Hydra) with pod in mind.

Another card I'd keep on your radar if it's not already is Winding Way. I really like it for a small cube as it goes in everything, and is elegant and interesting. I'm considering a more simplified format at 180, so it is under consideration over Loam...which is obviously more valuable as an engine piece here. But the utility of being a mulch or digging for multiple creatures makes it slot really nicely in a wide range of decks in my experience.

i had forgotten about Winding Way! also looking at Abundant Harvest simply for the reduced mana cost. i want to be cautious i’m not milling TOO much in green, although there are some GY shuffle effects i could add to mitigate it.

Is Executioner's Capsule too good? In addition to be a sweet with Emry, Lurker of the Loch and a Trinket Mage target, I really enjoy effects that sit on the board and out of your hand with a card like Asylum Visitor. Works with Sevinne's Reclamation too

i love capsule and may yet throw it in if i upsize. it was another one that got cut late in the process but i have a foil that i really like just sitting around. recursion is a big part of the format so it may be worthwhile as a repeatable kill.

How has Valakut Exploration been for you? It's super interesting to me, and I've considered it over Tectonic Reformation in my main cube. It feels much more proactive, and has some really interesting possibilities with Scapeshift/Splendid Reclamation effects

i haven’t been able to test it yet! it’s great in my MTGO EDH decks. my worry is that it gets bad the fewer lands you run, so it may be kind of a do nothing card in practice in this environment. but it’s in for now based on how much i like it in EDH.

 

[inscho]

i had forgotten about Winding Way! also looking at Abundant Harvest simply for the reduced mana cost. i want to be cautious i’m not milling TOO much in green, although there are some GY shuffle effects i could add to mitigate it.

Grapple with the Past is another one to consider I like that it brings something unique to the table for Isochron Scepter and also slots into pretty much everything, but I agree it's easy to have too many self-mill effects. You'd need to start running things like Loaming Shaman which can be a big ask at 180. If CC wasn't being avoided below 4cmc, I'd say Thassa's Oracle instead of Augur of Bolas would be a fun road to go down. Oracle has the benefit of being generically useful as an Omenspeaker, and packing that achievement unlocker into a small cube sounds really cool and challenging.

 

[blacksmithy]

yeah the pips restriction is the only thing preventing me from running Oracle. Augur is my gut pick for replacing with Watcher for Tomorrow as i think spell density is not going to be correct for Augur most drafts

 

[inscho]

yeah the pips restriction is the only thing preventing me from running Oracle. Augur is my gut pick for replacing with Watcher for Tomorrow as i think spell density is not going to be correct for Augur most drafts

I think it's a pretty unnecessary hurdle to jump through, and has always played poorly in my experience. As a defensive body, Watcher still provides value being able to trade in combat, as well as dissuading attacks in general. Watcher is also far better with Pod.

 

[blacksmithy]

fwiw i would probably sharpie Oracle to cost 1U if i see enough potential/drafter demand there for a turbo self mill deck. “have some agency” as they say! but right now i just don’t have enough drafts in to say for certain that would be the right thing to do

 

[blacksmithy]

Considering the following as possible adds, not sure about cuts... this would almost necessitate an upsize i think:
1 Abundant Harvest (STA) 48
1 Baffling End (RIX) 1
1 Bind the Monster (KHM) 48
1 Bloodchief's Thirst (ZNR) 94
1 Censor (AKH) 46
1 Clarion Spirit (KHM) 6
1 Cling to Dust (THB) 87
1 Decisive Denial (STX) 177
1 Dragonsguard Elite (STX) 127
1 Dreadhorde Arcanist (WAR) 125
1 Drown in the Loch (ELD) 188
1 Expressive Iteration (STX) 186
1 Fatal Push (2XM) 93
1 Firebolt (MB1) 927
1 Glass Casket (ELD) 15
1 Laelia, the Blade Reforged (C21) 53
1 Luminarch Aspirant (ZNR) 24
1 Mana Tithe (TSR) 26
1 Miscalculation (ULG) 36
1 Narnam Renegade (AER) 117
1 Noose Constrictor (EMN) 164
1 Once Upon a Time (ELD) 169
1 Pelt Collector (GRN) 141
2 Ramunap Excavator (CMR) 433
1 Rip Apart (STX) 225
1 Sea Gate Stormcaller (ZNR) 77
1 Sedgemoor Witch (STX) 86
1 Traverse the Ulvenwald (SOI) 234
1 Unbridled Growth (AER) 126
1 Venerable Warsinger (STX) 246
1 Watcher for Tomorrow (MH1) 76
1 Witherbloom Command (STX) 248

 

[blacksmithy]

posting some criticism here so i can find it later as i work on updates

Here are my initial impressions
```
General notes
With all the flicker support in white I think y ou want better payoffs, the only one I really see is blade splicer. Either that or all the flicker cards are seretly green as well
I might replace the 1 drops in blue with potentially higher drops that affect the board more like cloudkin seer
Generally if you want things to be mroe low to the ground I would increase the number of 1 drops in each color to match green, blue maybe being the exception because they don't get good 1 drops
In Red maybe add the 1 drop steppe lynx that got released in new zendikar
I see a ton of cards trying to support artifacts but not enough artifacts to really pay things off.


Underpowered
Shepherd of the flock - At 192 there are multiple 2 drops that I think go over this one
Vesperklark - With only 3-4 one drops in each color besides green I worry this is a miss too often
Spellstutter sprite - With only 2 faeries and the counter only hitting 25% of the cube I am unsure if this fits
Emry - I am not really sure what I am getting back with her that makes her worth it in this list
Tribute/Trinket Mage - Same thing as emry, maybe I am missing something
Clutch of Currents - Would just replace with blink of an eye I think
Gifts ungiven - I dont see enough combo in this cube and I would probably replace with chart a course
Vito, thorn of the dusk rose - Not seeing how this competes with the two shades and I don't see lifelink really being a theme
Jolrael - I think she needs more support to work in this list
Pithing Needle - Replace with sorcers spyglass, this format is not fast enough that I think you need the 1 mana discount, although this format might not need it at all
Sylvok Lifestaff - I think we can find better equipment
Buried Ruin - Needs more artifact support
```

 

[inscho]

Considering the following as possible adds, not sure about cuts... this would almost necessitate an upsize i think:

I like a lot of these. I guess the question is what is dictating your cube size? I feel like somewhere between 180 and 360, I start getting a lot less mileage from each card....this obviously changes with each set that’s printed. As a thought exercise, I’m trying to find a sweet spot that’s a ratio between cube size:depth in individual card flexibility/interest...which is purely an arbitrary minimalism thing. Like I’ll often ask myself a question like “How small can a cube be and still support 3 distinct archetypes per guild?”

One other card I forgot to mention that I really like in a small cube is

 

[inscho]

posting some criticism here so i can find it later as i work on updates

Here are my initial impressions
```
General notes
With all the flicker support in white I think y ou want better payoffs, the only one I really see is blade splicer. Either that or all the flicker cards are seretly green as well
I might replace the 1 drops in blue with potentially higher drops that affect the board more like cloudkin seer
Generally if you want things to be mroe low to the ground I would increase the number of 1 drops in each color to match green, blue maybe being the exception because they don't get good 1 drops
In Red maybe add the 1 drop steppe lynx that got released in new zendikar
I see a ton of cards trying to support artifacts but not enough artifacts to really pay things off.


Underpowered
Shepherd of the flock - At 192 there are multiple 2 drops that I think go over this one
Vesperklark - With only 3-4 one drops in each color besides green I worry this is a miss too often
Spellstutter sprite - With only 2 faeries and the counter only hitting 25% of the cube I am unsure if this fits
Emry - I am not really sure what I am getting back with her that makes her worth it in this list
Tribute/Trinket Mage - Same thing as emry, maybe I am missing something
Clutch of Currents - Would just replace with blink of an eye I think
Gifts ungiven - I dont see enough combo in this cube and I would probably replace with chart a course
Vito, thorn of the dusk rose - Not seeing how this competes with the two shades and I don't see lifelink really being a theme
Jolrael - I think she needs more support to work in this list
Pithing Needle - Replace with sorcers spyglass, this format is not fast enough that I think you need the 1 mana discount, although this format might not need it at all
Sylvok Lifestaff - I think we can find better equipment
Buried Ruin - Needs more artifact support
```

Whoops you snuck in a post.

Shepherd - one of my favorite recent printings, but I feel like you want to take advantage of the spell trigger to get the most value from it. There’s a case for it over Skyfisher, but maybe not as things are designed currently. I like having both as dimensional blink which feels really relevant with the orbs and smokestack

Vesperlark - trap card in micro cube. Love the card. You can easily exploit it on multiple axes, but it will require that you dictate a lot of your architecture in way that might be undesirable

Emry is an ideal micro cube card, but you want it to be a triangulating point for your archetypes. I think it should stay. The two mages AND emry feels a bit redundant, because emry kinda does the work of both and more without being a normalizing tutor effect. I do like how you integrated the mages though and felt it was a fun design idiosyncrasy

I actually had questions about all of these others, but wanted to get some sample drafts in before tearing into a ton of cards.

EDIT:

Sorry if I’m getting obnoxious with all my comments, but two cards I like when supporting isochron scepter:

 

[blacksmithy]

oh no, don’t worry, i posted a thread here because i WANT people to comment like crazy, it helps me get a lot less solipsistic (?) in my design as i run on very small and far-apart data samples. i am also a big condescend fan and Mire Triton too!

and to answer your question, what’s driving the cube size is my IRL playgroup size. i designed for 2-4 but may need to accommodate as many as 6, so that would necessitate at least a temporary upsize.

 

[blacksmithy]

big updates last night!
moving away from “2/2 for 1 aggro” and into more midrangey stuff, but tried to give colors some proactive/development plays for turn 1 to compensate for not dropping a beater.

 

[blacksmithy]

more changes! i am very close to where i wanna be for first cube night, but i would like to find space for the following, any suggestions on cuts?

 

[TrainmasterGT]

Blue:
Consider:


Black:


Red:
Choose One:


Green:
Choose One:

 

[blacksmithy]

Thank you. to everyone who has helped me agonize and obsess over every slot in the cube for the past month!
I think the list is FINALLY ready for cube night this coming weekend, and i look forward to reporting back how it goes!

 

[blacksmithy]

in person cube night with the new list! grid drafted a 4 color go wide greed pile against my drafter’s abzan grind build. went 0-2 with red in the deck, then took out the red cards and lands for black ones and won game 3.
neither of us ever got mana screwed and rarely ran out of gas (abzan deck did occasionally, but had good mana sinks to push through).
my losses were both to Warden of the First Tree, which he wisely saved until late game after i had used/milled my unconditional removal - switching to black solved this problem since it was suddenly ALL unconditional. the game i won, we were both low on life and i had three cards left in library, but had managed to stick Tasigur and Mandrills to punch through his walls and chumpers. He was pleased with the games and deck and so am i! these were the best cube games i’ve ever played so i am extremely happy with the new brainstorming style list and ESPECIALLY the custom mana base, which as expected is better than anything currently existing in printed MTG.

 

[blacksmithy]

some changes based on what i saw during cube night/prep for the MH2 update...

turns out i don’t actually own Journey to Nowhere! so Cast Out is filling in.
i had singleton breaks on Thalia and Clarion, Thalia i think doesn’t do anything in multiples, and Hero functions similarly to Clarion but likely plays nicer in the Niv Pile decks. honestly i may eventually swap out my remaining Thalia for a second Clarion Spirit. Basri’s Lieutenant i think has enough relevant text to warrant the 4 cost and does a fairly unique thing while sticking to white’s go wide and blink themes.
Chart a Course made my pool but did not make my maindeck, and i think Standstill is just cooler and also funnier too! which is significant! “Take your time.”
Phyrexian Reclamation is another card i took highly and couldn’t justify maindecking when the chips were down. i don’t see Servitude lasting long but it does the thing better than Reclamation i think. probably will just pick up a Reanimate soon to go with Unearth in this slot.
Subira and Alesha have been skating by “for lack of a better option” for a while, now that i know just how good the mana is i’m OK with known better option Phoenix of Ash, and Roil Eruption is a card that speaks to me and somehow just never made it into a buy list.
Finally Rec Sage is damn near useless right now even as a sideboard option, so Courser was an easy add. E wit could have been in this spot, but i plan to test Gaea’s Will (and if it sucks a custom version) later on and that will probably suffice for green regrowth effects.

Next phase is to add another cycle of golds, 4 color Omnath and Breya, some spell lands, and some Swords of Dungeons and Dragons so that i can do 9x6 drafting instead of 8x6. i definitely enjoyed the bigger pool while grid drafting so i think others will enjoy it too!

 

[blacksmithy]

Making some custom tokens! Really happy with how these turned out.