Card/Deck B/G Lifegain (Lets Durdle)

[Aoret]

My thought is that whether the gain is worth the complexity burden is going to be very largely playgroup dependent / idiosyncratic in nature. The better takeaway, IMO, is that we should be cognizant of this tradeoff always, for everything. I'm certainly guilty of throwing complexity in willy-nilly, completely heedless of the fact that many of my players are either brand new or are kitchen table players who I'm developing into "big kid magic" players. Honestly, now that I've got a little perspective on it, I'm kinda surprised that I haven't failed utterly as a cube owner @_@

 

[Jason Waddell]

My thought is that whether the gain is worth the complexity burden is going to be very largely playgroup dependent / idiosyncratic in nature. The better takeaway, IMO, is that we should be cognizant of this tradeoff always, for everything. I'm certainly guilty of throwing complexity in willy-nilly, completely heedless of the fact that many of my players are either brand new or are kitchen table players who I'm developing into "big kid magic" players. Honestly, now that I've got a little perspective on it, I'm kinda surprised that I haven't failed utterly as a cube owner @_@

I mean, to be fair, cube design is kind of "game design with training wheels". There's a very small percentage of the experience that we actually craft. The game rules, the cards, drafting process are all already there, we just select the cards to put in it.

Not to take anything away from the process, but, minimally, the "worst case scenario" for cube design is generally something playable. The same can't be said for game design at large.

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

But could you argue that something playable doesn't necessarily equal something that is enjoyable and fun for all concerned?

 

[Chris Taylor]

But could you argue that something playable doesn't necessarily equal something that is enjoyable and fun for all concerned?

Go play the worst cube you've ever seen and report back. I'm inclined to say it does, the worst cube I've ever drafted was still fun

 

[Alfonzo Bonzo]

Go play the worst cube you've ever seen and report back. I'm inclined to say it does, the worst cube I've ever drafted was still fun

Then why are we not all power maxing?

 

[Aston]

Because whilst a power max might still be fun, it might not be the most fun possible. This is the dream for which I strive.

 

[Grillo_Parlante]

Go play the worst cube you've ever seen and report back. I'm inclined to say it does, the worst cube I've ever drafted was still fun

brb building static orb cube without any vigilance cards.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Then why are we not all power maxing?

Because "Still Fun" is clearly not good enough for us

I mean hey, why do you post here?

 

[Eric Chan]

As LSV likes to say, to him the Holiday cube is like ice cream - great as a treat once in a while, but probably not something that you would want as a main course. (Or is it?!)

From my own experience, playing a "broken" cube with powerful interactions that are difficult to answer does make for some good stories, but it doesn't have as much value as a competitive endeavour that can be played and replayed week after week. Like, if I haven't played Mario Party in a long time, it'll sound like a great idea, but if I had to play it three times a month I might want to shoot myself.

 

[Aoret]

Go play the worst cube you've ever seen and report back. I'm inclined to say it does, the worst cube I've ever drafted was still fun

This, definitely. People actually said this to me when I had my first (really shitty) cube. Once I realized that you could make tons of mistakes and still generally have a pretty fun format, I didn't stress nearly as much.

 

[Chris Taylor]

As LSV likes to say, to him the Holiday cube is like ice cream - great as a treat once in a while, but probably not something that you would want as a main course. (Or is it?!)

From my own experience, playing a "broken" cube with powerful interactions that are difficult to answer does make for some good stories, but it doesn't have as much value as a competitive endeavour that can be played and replayed week after week. Like, if I haven't played Mario Party in a long time, it'll sound like a great idea, but if I had to play it three times a month I might want to shoot myself.

I think you might be aiming a little high here eric, I'm not talking about powered vs unpowered, or Riptide Style vs MTGS Style, I'm talking about a horrible hodgepodge of cards, mana curves the reverse of what you try and craft, no account for good cards or bad cards or theme at all, just shuffling up someone's jank box and drafting it. Damn thing could be 89% green and the owner wouldn't know

Drafting that is still fun, I'd wager. I get what you mean with LSV's Ice Cream metaphor, but I'd argue even the most poorly curated collection of cards is still at least sherbert

 

[shamizy]

I would want to create a drafting experience that myself and my drafters could enjoy multiple times without getting bored. I want there to be interesting interactions to be found, synergies to be exploited, and, above all, highly interactive games. I see the appeal of drafting just about any cube, and I wouldn't mind drafting any tbh, but it takes good design to make me want to play it again. It's not getting people to play once that's the hard part; it's to get them interested every time after that.

 

[Aoret]

And I think both of these points are kind of the greater point. I'd sum it up as:
A. The dream is to have an incredibly deep, fun environment with tons of replay value.
B. The safety net is that you can make gigantic mistakes in any given iteration without destroying the fun of the experience.

As long as you don't present the same dog shit environment over and over again, people will have fun playing your cube. This allows you to pursue A by making whatever changes you think get you closer, knowing that you can be a total dumbass, and the thing that is actually getting better during this process is you, not your cube.

 

[Chris Taylor]

Yeah basically