General Battle Box

Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Wow. I amped up the multicolor section to the max and run only two colorless cards to take full advantage of the unique mana system and diversify the format from my cube. I see you have a pretty even spread across colors.

I also purposefully put two a lot of one-drops and color-intensive early drops in the cube, so as to make land sequencing actually important. I see a little less of that in your cube, but I don't know if I've gone overboard and make it too hard to 1-drop into 2-drop.
 
kidfortoday

kidfortoday

Onderzeeboot said:
Feel free to comment on my list or ask for feedback on yours. I'm also interested in hearing about your experiences, since they differ from the main sources on this format.
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The main thing I think we're doing different is that you have a lot of mana sinks and cards that drastically increase their impact as the game goes on, which is something that I wanted to avoid, and there seems to be a wider spread between the more linear and more complicated cards and interactions in your list. Also, I don't know how I feel about having so many multicolored cards, but I guess that might be fine.
Do you find the format to be as slow and grindy as it's usually considered to be?
 
kidfortoday

kidfortoday

Onderzeeboot said:
Wow. I amped up the multicolor section to the max and run only two colorless cards to take full advantage of the unique mana system and diversify the format from my cube. I see you have a pretty even spread across colors.

I also purposefully put two a lot of one-drops and color-intensive early drops in the cube, so as to make land sequencing actually important. I see a little less of that in your cube, but I don't know if I've gone overboard and make it too hard to 1-drop into 2-drop.
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Yeah, land sequencing is probably not that big of a deal in my list, but in my intention the box should be closer to a regular limited format and less of a "crazy" format, so I valued being able to curve out highly, otherwise I feared player would just do nothing for the first few turns and inevitably got to the point where no one would be able to establish himself as the aggressor. I really want to have an environment where realizing who is the beatdown is an important part of the games; sometimes that's fairly obvious, but it's also pretty easy to be just shut down and having to switch gears, which in my opinion is still much better than having all games being pretty much just control on control mirrors.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
I included a lot of low-drops that can still be relevant in the late game. My curve suggests it shouldn't be too slow, but since my last update (the 'gold' update) I haven't got a game in, so I don't really know what the effect of all these changes is.
 
kidfortoday

kidfortoday

Cards you would especially recommend/consider cutting?

I have only Reverent Mantra, but I get the idea that pitch spells are very good and useful to help people empty their hands, which is somewhat of an issue I think (I'll probably put in a Zombie Infestation for that reason). Skeletal Scrying is a very flexible and balanced card that helps involving the graveyard and is one of a few X spells that doesn't risk getting out of hand as the game goes on. The format doesn't need a whole lot of card drawers (I probably have too much) but this is one of the best and I recommend it, same goes for Harvest Pyre, which should be even better now that I put in Spitemare. I'm also a fan of Morph, so I put a decent number of those in there, but I guess that's just a personal preference.

Cursed Scroll is rarely useful but I love the card too much, so I think I'll be trying to make it work by putting in more ways to empty your hand as I said before, rather than cutting it. Lingering Souls on the other hand can be a bit too good, but I've added a few more sweepers recently and I still have to figure out how that works out. I haven't played a lot with Masticore since I put it in, but I can see it being too good, we'll see.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Is Glowrider any good?

In my opinion anything that can permanently shut down a land in any way should be cut, as should any card that adds mana to your mana pool, because the whole game revolves around managing your 10 lands. In your list that's:



Mask of Intolerance is a pretty genius find though :)
 
kidfortoday

kidfortoday

That was another aspect that I think was way overrated in the articles I read. Of all these cards I think only Sylvan Caryatid is a candidate for cutting because it fixes, is a relevant body, and very difficult to remove. I do not think having one more mana to work with even in the late game is that much of an advantage. You don't have that much room to maneuver that you want to spend a whole turn killing a land, and there's nothing that costs more than six in the whole pile (the exceptions being Brine Elemental morph cost, a fully kicked Emblazoned Golem, and a couple of X spells, but those being Skeletal Scrying and Forced March you don't necessarily want to max them). Also, there are very few cards with triple colored requirement and not being able to cast those is not that big of a deal.

Jeweled Spirit, for example, is a very interesting card in that it's not efficient by any stretch and you usually can't afford to save it early in the game, but later it can become a very good finisher because there aren't a whole lot of larger flyers and even if your opponent has them it can go through them, so you have to choose accurately the timing to deal with it because it can get out of hand.

Living terrain I would consider cutting because I don't want it to be possible to bounce a land, but it happens rarely enough that I'm willing to overlook that. The mystic and dead are just not that good in my opinion, and Wall of Roots is not even a permanent advantage.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Got my first games in yesterday, and it was AWESOME! I didn't expect a bunch of (mainly) commons and uncommons to provide so much play. Our one and two-drops were relevant into the late game, land sequencing felt relevant, and we had a lot of though-provoking gamestates, where playing your cards in the right order was highly relevant. Plenty of room for mistakes as well, and both me and my opponent for the night threw away a game with a not so obvious error.

Also, I have to sharpie nonland on Resounding Wave, because that cycle is just awesome and not being able to touch land felt totally right. Firemane Angel is a bitch by the way.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Kalabalik said:
Is anyone maintaining a "tuned", up-to-date Battle Box list that they would like to share? I've been looking at the Ben Stark and Mike Keknee lists, but can't really decide where to begin building my own list.
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As a matter of fact, I do: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcurve/13646.

Mine puts a lot more focus on sequencing your lands correctly, by spreading out the requirements across the board. There's multi-color cards, triple-of-a-single-color cards, cards that care about basic land types, one-drops that retain relevance in the late game. I really like the build.
 
K

Kalabalik

Onderzeeboot said:
As a matter of fact, I do: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcurve/13646
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Thanks! I was hoping to find a list around 200 cards. To me, one of the main appeals of the battle box is that it is more manageable in size compared to a cube. 220 cards (including lands for two players) is much easier to bring to a friend's house than a 360-card cube that requires also requires 150-200 basic lands to support a draft.

I also appreciate that the cards are all cheap, with the exception of Kiki-Jiki and Shardless Agent, but I am guessing there are easily replaceable.

Did you intentionally include two Sacellum Archers? It looks like all other cards are singletons.
 
James Stevenson

James Stevenson

Steamflogger Boss
Staff member
I think I'll build one of these today. I live with a guy who plays magic, but we never cube cuz we don't really wanna do 2-player drafts.
 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

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Kalabalik said:
Did you intentionally include two Sacellum Archers? It looks like all other cards are singletons.
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Note to self: remove one Sacellum Archers.

No, that's an error. I put the box together by hand, then put them up on cubetutor one by one. Guess I missed this, thanks for pointing it out! :)

I don't think I updated it for Fates Reforged and Dragons of Tarkir yet, because I'm doing a massive redesign of my cube that is taking quite some time. There might be a few cards worth putting in.

Edit: Oh, I took extra care not to put anything in that messes with lands. Not even bounce, because a discard spell afterwards could leave you with uncastables. Alternatively, you could opt for a commander-esque rule: "Whenever a land you own would leave the battlefield, you may return it to the command zone instead." I feel you don't need the land destruction for games to feel meaningful though, and with all the etb tapped lands, it's going to be a pain in the ass to replay them over and over again, so be careful! :)
 
James Stevenson

James Stevenson

Steamflogger Boss
Staff member
Onderzeeboot said:
Edit: Oh, I took extra care not to put anything in that messes with lands. Not even bounce, because a discard spell afterwards could leave you with uncastables. Alternatively, you could opt for a commander-esque rule: "Whenever a land you own would leave the battlefield, you may return it to the command zone instead." I feel you don't need the land destruction for games to feel meaningful though, and with all the etb tapped lands, it's going to be a pain in the ass to replay them over and over again, so be careful! :)
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And then cost 2 more each time to play it? Could be fair, could be lame.
 
shamizy

shamizy

Nice box Onderzeeboot. I remember seeing the Battle Box article when it popped up and it looked interesting enough. Your list seems like a good starting point to work off of. I've had a Peasant Cube sitting around as a WIP for the last half year but never really got around to actively building it. This seems like a way better alternative.
 
Kirblinx

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
I have a friend who created a format similar to Battle Box about 7 years ago.
I shall now introduce you to Enigma Duel

Setup
It is like a cube (or a giant sealed pool) but cards are separated into 4 different groups, dictated by their sleeve colour.
The five colours are White, Black, Blue, Silver and Gold.
White: Basic Lands
Black: (Nearly) One of every non-basic known to mankind.
Blue: All cards with CMC 3 or less. Some 4 drops can fit in here for colour balance.
Silver: All cards with CMC 4+
Gold: Cards that are awesome (the enigma so to speak).

So each of the Black, Blue and Silver cards are setup as their own library. The basic lands are spread out nicely for easy access and the gold cards are stashed away until the game is about to begin.

Rules
Standard magic rules apply with a few exceptions:
  • The first card you draw each turn can be chosen to be drawn from either the Black, Blue or Silver libraries.
  • When playing a land, you may exile a land in your hand to pick a basic of your choice and put it into play.
  • Starting hand consists of 3 black cards, 3 blue cards and a silver card.
  • If you would draw a card that is not your first draw for the turn, a 6 sided die is rolled (for each card drawn) and the library you draw from is dictated by the die; 1-2 = Black; 3-4 = Blue; 5-6 = Silver (This was done because being able to know you are drawing 2 4+ drops and not land is back-breaking. The variance was needed to allow card draw to be put in the format).
  • Each player is given 1 gold card at the start of a game. It is in the command zone hidden and can be cast at any time.
Example Gold Cards



As you can see, having some of these make you go in specific directions when you have them in your opening hand and not having to worry about mana screw. The ascension becomes a game of trying to take no damage from turn two to turn it on. Destructive Flow you play basics from the start. Or you just have a powerful trump in Karn. Gives the game a different angle to go off of.
It is a great way to get some competitive games without having to worry about deck construction.
If anyone has any queries on the format or if anyone has any suggestions for some cool gold cards I am willing to listen!
 
Kirblinx

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
Onderzeeboot said:
This sounds like a pain to set up but a blast to play :) What's your starting hand look like though?
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Dot point 3 in the rules. 3 Black (Land), 3 Blue and a Silver, is the starting hand. Gives a nice wide array of things to start off with, then deciding whether to go black or blue on your first couple of draws is the interesting part.

It isn't that more of a pain to set up than a regular cube. You have all the piles sorted in colours in your box already. Throw out each pile to the side of the table (with a bit of a shuffle) with 5 piles of the basic lands beside and you are good to fire. Probably even quicker to set up than a draft, you don't have to go and make any packs :p
 
Kirblinx

Kirblinx

Developer
Staff member
kevthewalker said:
What's your list look like?

And so you only get 1 gold card per game?
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Yes, you only get one gold card per game, but the amount of games you go through, it doesn't really feel like too much of a restriction.

I don't really have a list, but my friends list was like a non-powered MTGS cube. It had a lot more gold cards though, since mana isn't really an issue in this format. I remember there being some weird top end cards to like:

 
Onderzeeboot

Onderzeeboot

Ecstatic Orb
Holy mother of necro Batman! But, it is a relevant necro, since I just put my current Battle Box on CubeCobra! With all of the new cards that saw print in the last... five years (since the previous post), I was able to really amp up the sequencing puzzle aspect of my battle box.

https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/sbb
 
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